[Jan 10, 2014] Great Eastern Fly in. (NSW)

[Guest Maj Millard]

Don't see why CASA would need to talk to the Jab for ?.....going around is a normal safety manoeuvre. One that we all should be capable of, and always prepared to do. I had to do it a couple of times at Old Station last year. Traffic on the runway ahead doesn't vacate as quick as you expect, so you go around....no big deal.

 

A radio call with intentions is always good, as required when in the pattern..........Maj....

 

 

[facthunter]

There should not be any perceived problem with going around. The PIC is bound to operate the aircraft in the most safe manner and going around may well be just that. It's not an emergency in any way, but it is sometimes a very critical manoeuver depending on the actual situation, which of itself may require a report. Don't broadcast if it would compromise the control of the aircraft at a critical time but do it when you can if it improves the situation. Nev

 

 

[flying dog]

Well, I stand corected by people who weren't there telling me what I did see.

 

(I do'nt need thhis crap!)

 

No more comments by me on the subject.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Flying dog, Not sure what the problem is here, we were engaged in normal discussion and response , which is what normally occurs on this forum.

 

There seems to be two incidents involved in discussion...one involving a Jabaru go-around during a taxi back by an Avenger show aircraft, and the second involving a Piper landing with a near miss with a holding P-51 Mustang.

 

We have offered in response that the one with the Jab was not serious, and normal procedure was followed, and it has been suggested that the other incident was serious and recieved CASA attention, as it Probabily warranted .

 

What seems to be the problem on your part ?................Maj......

 

 

[arielle]

FD I don't think that's the case at all, what I and others were questioning was why you labelled it poor airmanship. You may well have reason to, but I'm not getting it from your description of the event.

 

(General comment follows) - There seems a trend to label anything other than plain vanilla 1G, 30 degrees of bank flying in perfect weather as reckless, poor airmanship, showing off, take your pick (Thruster zoom climb?). I experienced this recently when a young instructor took it upon himself to lecture me about side slipping on one of my approaches at a country airfield. Not my instructor, just some random out to big note himself in front of others at the field. I might have let him get away with it but for the comment; "don't you read your POH?" Far as I'm aware only some models of C172 have a prohibition against side slipping with full flap and I took great delight in offering to stand a round if he could find any prohibition in the POH on the aircraft I was flying (which I have in fact read in depth). I'm aware some LAME's believe it puts excessive strain on the tracks, but have equally heard others say BS, so although I don't make a habit of doing it, I do throw it in occasionally to keep my hand in.

 

 

[Teckair]

I'm aware some LAME's believe it puts excessive strain on the tracks, .

I was told the tail can be blanketed by slipping with full flap.

 

 

[corvairkr]

Oooh i don't know fellas i can see FD's point i don't think he is criticizing the Jab pilot for doing a go around but for taking so long to initiate it.

 

The Jab has flown all of final watching a Trojan slowly backtracking towards him. Wouldn't it be better airmanship to initiate a go around sooner rather than later and get a call out in what i would assume to be a busy circuit at an airshow rather than getting his panties up in a bunch and buzzing the Trojan at 50ft?

 

Jason

 

 

[Ultralights]

whats the legal minimum height for a go around?

 

 

[arielle]

I was told the tail can be blanketed by slipping with full flap.

Yes, as I understand it that is why it is in the POH. According to a test pilot's report I read, it can, depending on airflow, set up a kind of nodding motion. The advice I received was don't do it, but if it is the difference between landing safely in a paddock or overshooting in a forced landing situation, crank her over!

 

 

[DrZoos]

The lack of radio use by several who have radios, really poor and terribly innacurate calls. An absolute disregard for circuit shapes or directions by some with some people flying over the landing end of the runway low level while on downwind then turning sharp right low level to land. Others leaving the runway after landing, then re entering to backtrack at landing traffic on very very late finals rather then using the well marked grass taxiway.

 

Also high performance aircraft flying fast at low levels near the airfield with multiple microlights in the 500 ft circuit.

 

Microlights crossing the active while others are taking off and landing. Saw 2 close calls. Not to mention if there engine coughs.

 

It really was an eye opener for me.

 

The traffic mix wasnt really the issue that i saw. It was risk taking and disregard for procedures, bad or non use of radios , plus people rushing and being extremely pushy.

 

If people where prepared to go around , , make good calls , leave more room or wait 30 second things could be a lot safer

 

 

[djpacro]

Now I remember why I don't go to big, busy fly-ins.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

FD I don't think that's the case at all, what I and others were questioning was why you labelled it poor airmanship. You may well have reason to, but I'm not getting it from your description of the event.(General comment follows) - There seems a trend to label anything other than plain vanilla 1G, 30 degrees of bank flying in perfect weather as reckless, poor airmanship, showing off, take your pick (Thruster zoom climb?). I experienced this recently when a young instructor took it upon himself to lecture me about side slipping on one of my approaches at a country airfield. Not my instructor, just some random out to big note himself in front of others at the field. I might have let him get away with it but for the comment; "don't you read your POH?" Far as I'm aware only some models of C172 have a prohibition against side slipping with full flap and I took great delight in offering to stand a round if he could find any prohibition in the POH on the aircraft I was flying (which I have in fact read in depth). I'm aware some LAME's believe it puts excessive strain on the tracks, but have equally heard others say BS, so although I don't make a habit of doing it, I do throw it in occasionally to keep my hand in.

Arielle, I've changed a lot of Cessna flap tracks and rollers in my time, and I don' t think pilots slipping Cessnas has caused any of the wear....just normal usage.

 

Slipping in some earlier models with full flaps can be dangerous, but with other stages on any Cessna just as safe as in any other type. I was taught by an instructor that wouldn't give you a license if you hadn't mastered the art of sideslipping, and could carry it out with some degree of confidence.

 

My guess is the 'instructor?' who spoke to you probabily didn't have half the skills that you do by the sound of it.......cheers........ Maj....

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Oooh i don't know fellas i can see FD's point i don't think he is criticizing the Jab pilot for doing a go around but for taking so long to initiate it.The Jab has flown all of final watching a Trojan slowly backtracking towards him. Wouldn't it be better airmanship to initiate a go around sooner rather than later and get a call out in what i would assume to be a busy circuit at an airshow rather than getting his panties up in a bunch and buzzing the Trojan at 50ft?

 

Jason

The runway was occupied, period, and he has no choice but to go around. That's the proper procedure and the safe procedure , and there is no reason for him to get his knickers in a knot, nor does it serve any purpose. If your airborne in an airshow envioriment, you had better be ready for unplanned delays.............Maj.....

 

 

[Camel]

Several years ago at Evans Head fly in I turned base with lots of traffic, once I turned final a broadcast from a large warbird about to line up caused me to consider a go around due to possible wake turbulence a radio call to him and he elected to allow me to land, it held him up very briefly as I landed short and cleared very quickly and he and I acknowledged brief appreciation of each other actions.

 

Situational awareness is what it is all about and brief clear radio communication. Long radio calls are a danger to everyone as you may prevent an urgent transmission also some are afraid to use radio which is just as dangerous.

 

There was time for the warbird to depart and me arrive and the wake turbulence he leaves behind is not his problem but mine.