Steering on final with rudder

[Contact Flying]

Ozzie nailed it. Yes we need forget the balanced stuff on final. There are certainly places for coordinated control usage, but there are also places for unbalanced. We coordinate or balance the rudder with aileron to counter adverse yaw. This rudder usage to counter adverse yaw in turns is so important that we instructors sometimes fail to point out there are times when balanced turns are not good. Straight and level, gun run, staying in the crop row, and directing the longitudinal axis (incorrectly called the nose) on final are some of those times.

 

Dynamic proactive rudder control is second nature for the tailwheel pilot on the surface, but I have caught them using balanced turns of final with their nosedragger buddies. Once we make a balanced turn to final, we want to now forget the balance stuff until we park it. Dynamic proactive balanced turns get the longitudinal alignment sloopily done, but causes problems toward the bottom. We don't want a wing down near wires and obstacles and we don't want to land, especially a tailwheel airplane, in a turn.

 

So if we have enough crosswind for the student to see what is going on, the crosswind landing using the side slip to counter drift teaches unbalanced turns (nose yaws) well. It is a rub our tummy while patting our head, unbalanced, uncoordinated thing. We hold the wing in the bank angle necessary to counter drift with aileron. Rudder has nothing to do with drift. We walk the rudder dynamically left, right, left, right, etc. to hold the centerline between our feet. Aileron has nothing to do with longitudinal alignment. We don't look over the nose or prop in side by side aircraft as this will cause us to touch down left of the centerline and crooked. Look at the tire marks at your local paved field.

 

Now lets move on to the no wind, calm landing. We do the same thing as the side slip to landing in a crosswind. We hold the wing level (no crosswind drift) with static and reactive aileron. Rudder has nothing to do with it. We dynamically and proactively walk the rudder to maintain longitudinal alignment. Aileron has nothing to do with it.

 

OK, now the catch. On the gun run, in the crop row, on the localizer, and in straight and level cruise flight, we use the rudder only to keep the wings level. Bugger. Actually we are dynamically and proactively walking the rudder just left, just right, etc. to maintain longitudinal alignment with the distant target and not the heading number on the gauge in the airplane where we don't need to be looking during contact flying.

 

As Dr. Zoos has so elegantly pointed out, we instructors sometimes get balled up in our explanations. These are just words. What is important is what is happening outside your windscreen. Put these instructional words into that context. If you don't like what you see outside your windscreen, ask questions. Keep asking until that sight picture outside your windscreen becomes clear. You might have noticed that I never use V speeds or various numbers in my explanations. They show up inside where you need not be looking, not outside where contact flying takes place. I am an instrument instructor as well. It has its place. That place is instrument flight rules and instrument meteorological conditions where there is no visual horizon. The two IFR and VFR are dangerous when mixed. The school solution, integrated instrument training, was not so bad until the instruments took over. Now it is just a dangerous concept.

 

Perhaps a little explanation of dynamic and proactive rudder movement. We are not trying to keep the nose (longitudinal axis) aligned. That would be static and reactive control movement and would muck it up as you boys say. We want to be just wrong alternately on each side of lined up. This is what the artillery boys called "burst on target." One long, one short, etc. The net effect is a round on target. It works well with the rudder and with the elevator. Because of adverse yaw, it just doesn't work well with the ailerons.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Yep, I agree with that. I'm in the process of getting my RAA pilot certificate, and my instructor (who was also a gliding Instructor in his past life) asked me - after my first five or so circuits - if I was making a conscious decision to roll out of the turn onto final into a sideslip approach, because I did it consistently, or was it just old habits? I hadn't realised that I'm used to lining up the threshold off to one side.... and doing a lot of my initial training in Blaniks is probably why.I did my first check-flight at Narromine with John Rowe in a Blanik. As far as I can remember, the voice from the back said: ' You're way high' as we turned final, followed by 'I'd like you to end up somewhere near the flight line' as we rounded out, followed by 'you're a bloody Cooma pilot, right?' as we taxied up and stopped behind the last glider on the line. In the CGC flying at Polo Flat, you were expected to do the last flight of the day ending up at the hangar door; the Libelle syndicate members used to stand out the front of the hangar and put their foot out and require their flying member to drop the tip onto their boot. Failure to so do was punished by having to buy the rounds for the evening.

At Ballarat, I flew my first. . .and a couple of years later,. . .my last. . .Blanik. . . . if you achieved the sort of control you just wrote about ( And I don't doubt that you did. . .) RESPEC SIR ! ! ! . . . . At Ballarat they called the Blanik ( they only had one then. . .) the Flying Manhole cover. . .! That is a bit cruel as it is a very good training glider IMHO. But after flying sailplanes in the UK,. . .I began to see the difference between a SP and a . . .Glider. . . even though I got my A,B, and C certs on winch launch gliders in the ATC in 1063/4.

 

I used to piss off my Flexwing flying instructor by turning off the engine at 1,000 ft in the overhead, landing and, using the remaining inertia,. . . rolling out right in front of his office, (well, it wasn't a proper office,. . .it was the back body of an old British Telecom truck, windows cut out with a circular saw. . . . when I did that BTW,. . I'd amassed over 400 hours P1. . .( still stupid and arrogant. . .I agree)

 

When I started flying flexwing trikes, in 1986,. . . I'd already logged a lot of hours in all sorts of gliders and powered aircraft, BUT the flexwing was a real challenge, which is why my Bother Ray and I bought one. . . . I refused to fly the thing back to base, as I hadn't had a lot of hang gliding experience,. . .and I am, to this day, very glad that didn't try. Trikes are very interesting things to fly, if you've trained on 3 axis appliances,. . .BUT there are some important things that you really DO need to know before attempting flight in one yourself.

 

Happy flying

 

Phil

 

 

[kasper]

much clippedTrikes are very interesting things to fly, if you've trained on 3 axis appliances,. . .BUT there are some important things that you really DO need to know before attempting flight in one yourself.

 

Happy flying

 

Phil

Oh indeed they are an interesting type beast to fly ... especially if you have come from 3axis.

The fact that every turn is to a greater or lesser extent slipping at parts of the turn (entry/exit) and you have no direct directional control surface means it takes some getting used to ... and the approach angle can make stukas look like gliders

 

But the biggest thing is that despite what some say most 3axis pilots will find every flight control is reversed and foot pedals for brakes and throttle is just the icing on the cake.

 

Lots of fun to fly though

 

 

[Oscar]

At Ballarat, I flew my first. . .and a couple of years later,. . .my last. . .Blanik. . . . if you achieved the sort of control you just wrote about ( And I don't doubt that you did. . .) RESPEC SIR ! ! ! . . . . At Ballarat they called the Blanik ( they only had one then. . .) the Flying Manhole cover. . .! That is a bit cruel as it is a very good training glider IMHO. But after flying sailplanes in the UK,. . .I began to see the difference between a SP and a . . .Glider. . . even though I got my A,B, and C certs on winch launch gliders in the ATC in 1063/4.Phil

Phil: what I did was absolutely non-exceptional flying in a Blanik, they are incredibly forgiving aircraft, and I think anyone in my Club then could do the same by the time they got their x--country rating ( or they wouldn't have gotten it!). Cooma was a tight pattern airfield. We were taught to do steep approaches and keep the speed on until it was 100% guaranteed we didn't need it; and the instructors routinely checked us on 'unusual' approaches e.g. one time, half-way downwind with all checks done and trim set, my instructor took over, banged the gear away and the flaps up, pointed it at the intersection of the cross-strip and the main strip and let the speed build to around 75 kts and then said: 'your aircraft'. We were at maybe 400 feet and about 150 metres from the intersection.. no drama at all, the Blanik just does what is asked of it uncomplainingly and with zero unpleasantness. One Club member remarked when we landed : ' I see Bob is feeling frisky this morning' ( or something similar); nobody else even batted an eyelid. That level of training helped on a few outlandings, I have to say.

 

It came as a significant jerk to my reality when I started power training in a J160 after only 27 years away from flying and I found I couldn't put the damn thing down where I wanted to, by 150-300 metres AT LEAST - though in a slight defence, I wasn't used to flying with bi-focals which rather screw up one's appreciation of the round-out height.

 

 

[Dieselten]

Weightshift:- fly the wing.

 

3-Axis - fly the wing.

 

Start flying the wing and stop just flying the controls. Works every time!

 

A wing only knows how to make lift. It doesn't know what it's bolted onto. Make the wing do the work, and fly it and only it. That way, if you don't break the wing you probably won't break anything else either, and if you make the wing go where you want it to go the rest ot the aeroplane will follow.

 

Fly the wing.

 

 

[Teckair]

Ozzie nailed it. Yes we need forget the balanced stuff on final.

Funny thing there I don't feel the need to do that and it works for me and the people I have taught.

 

 

[Contact Flying]

Teckair,

 

I appreciate the feedback, but I am a little confused. We both used negatives and I'm not sure if you agree with dynamic proactive rudder to maintain longitudinal alignment on final approach. Or are you saying you use coordinated turns?

 

I speak American English and hillbilly American English at that. There could be a language barrier. I also failed to read to page 17 before my comment. I saw my callsign at the bottom of page 1 and though I was at the end of the thread. I am old and not a savvy computer user. Way too much attention to detail required. Scares me to fly in airliners knowing a computer is driving.

 

Contact

 

 

[facthunter]

Discussing basic concepts of flying on a forum has it's problems. Someone might get part of it but not have the whole concept and the outcome may be grim as a result. I believe we underskill (Dumb down) , too much. in training pilots..The aeroplane I like wouldn't suit everybody. It's not a brand, It's a type. among other things, it would NOT be overstable. I'd prefer it to be nearly neutral, but have a powerful rudder effect. Most ailerons provide extra lift but a lot of extra drag in proportion, so if you don't lead with rudder, you will initially turn the other way slightly, first.. If you are flying something like an ILS (Straight track,) you will oscillate inevitably (wave to everyone) unless you use active rudder. Nev

 

 

[Teckair]

Teckair,I appreciate the feedback, but I am a little confused. We both used negatives and I'm not sure if you agree with dynamic proactive rudder to maintain longitudinal alignment on final approach. Or are you saying you use coordinated turns?

 

I speak American English and hillbilly American English at that. There could be a language barrier. I also failed to read to page 17 before my comment. I saw my callsign at the bottom of page 1 and though I was at the end of the thread. I am old and not a savvy computer user. Way too much attention to detail required. Scares me to fly in airliners knowing a computer is driving.

 

Contact

Yes I use coordinated turns, any cross wind just lay off drift as normal then kick it straight with rudder and into wind wing down during the flare. Despite what others do I see no reason to steer with the rudder but some reasons why it is a bad idea.

 

 

[kasper]

Weightshift:- fly the wing.3-Axis - fly the wing.

Start flying the wing and stop just flying the controls. Works every time!

 

A wing only knows how to make lift. It doesn't know what it's bolted onto. Make the wing do the work, and fly it and only it. That way, if you don't break the wing you probably won't break anything else either, and if you make the wing go where you want it to go the rest ot the aeroplane will follow.

 

Fly the wing.

Yes and no.

If you started in weightshift (hanglider or trike) fly the wing makes absolutely perfect sense ... as do all the control inputs

 

If you started in 3axis you SHOULD also be flying the wing its just that you are indirectly flying it through control surfaces ... and those control inputs are opposite to the very direct WS controls

 

But if you think that not breaking the wing in WS is enough to not break anything else you really are not safe to go out in a WS ... then landing phase is really where the wing in under low load but the trike really comes into the equation - you can break them really easily due to the high CofM ... tip overs are far too common - esp for those migrating off 3axis eg nose wheel dead straight on touchdown - esp on hard surface - and the fact you have brakes and throttle on the two pedals means LOTS of people moving from 3axis have trouble just on this area

 

If you just meant if you don't break it in the air it will fly then closer ... but there are peculiarities there as well - spins are not available but spirals and whip stalls are entirely there and very different from 3axis in terms of the length of time you have to ID the issue and avoid/recover before it can become a real and life threatening issue.

 

 

[Pearo]

For anyone who suggest not to worry about balance on final, can I suggest you do the following:

 

Find a decent instructor, climb to a safe height, HASELL, set aircraft up in the same configuration as you would for final approach, then stall the aircraft. Try this whilst keeping the plane in balance and also out of balance. You will very quickly realise the benefits of keep the aircraft in balance..

 

Now I say do this with an instructor, because when you stall unbalanced in the approach config, the plane is likely going to enter a spin.

 

Its also worth doing this in the climb out configuration to see how the aircraft behaves, because the entry to the spin is even more pronounced.

 

I had to do this BEFORE I was sent solo.

 

 

[2tonne]

I did indeed do that in both a Tecnam P92 and a CTMC. Stalled with one stage flap and a boot full of rudder applied. All that happened was a pretty weak wing drop, definitely no spin to be seen in either aircraft. And once established on final (as opposed to turning base to final) how likely are you to either a) kick in full rudder deflections to remain aligned with the runway centreline or b) stall?

 

 

[2tonne]

My first instructor had me keeping a J-160 aligned with runway centreline on final using rudder instead of aileron. It certainly was a much smoother approaching than trying to make a number of coordinated aileron inputs! And the rudder inputs required were pretty small.

 

 

[Teckair]

Find a decent instructor

Err not sure how easy that would be with so many being taught balance is not important on final.

 

 

[2tonne]

Err not sure how easy that would be with so many being taught balance is not important on final.

On that basis I shouldn't side slip on final?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well I had a huge learning curve when I started flying Gliders. K13 at first then I converted to the Bergfaulk...The bergy was hated by most because it needed so much rudder all the time. We used to call it the bergfaulk dance. That aircraft taught me more about the effects of rudder than any other aircraft. I have flown Kookaburras, T53b, K13, Bergfaulk, IS28, Twin Astir and the bergy needed more manhandling than any of the rest. Rudder was used 99% of the time on final and just touches of aileron is how I was taught on Gliders. When I did GA in a C172 the rudder was only used for steering on the ground basically and hardly ever mentioned. For RAA my instructor prefers the rudder control approach on final and that is more like my glider training. This is how I do it when I fly and never have a issue or feel unsafe. I love sideslips to bits and do them all the time because I can and the Savannah does then so well. I have used the aileron approach stle as commented on in this thread and to be honest I feel much more comfortable using the rudder its way too much work stirring the pot on final its just easy to keep it lined up with rudder and take care of the drift with aileron

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Oh indeed they are an interesting type beast to fly ... especially if you have come from 3axis.The fact that every turn is to a greater or lesser extent slipping at parts of the turn (entry/exit) and you have no direct directional control surface means it takes some getting used to ... and the approach angle can make stukas look like gliders

But the biggest thing is that despite what some say most 3axis pilots will find every flight control is reversed and foot pedals for brakes and throttle is just the icing on the cake.

 

Lots of fun to fly though

They certanly are that mate. . . . Mine is an ancient Mainair Gemini Flash 2 / 503 Rotax 2 stroke. . .forerunner of the "Alpha" whih was a very popular training kite for many years. I was given one hour and forty minutes of instruction in mine, over two lessons separated by two weeks. . . and since my G.A. licence covered mictolights back then, this was legal. ( Although VERY inadviseable - with hindsight )

 

I found that, having ridden motorcycles since the age of around 7, on various farms to start with, that turning a flexwing felt perfectly natural, pitch reversal, for some reason I had no problem with ( ? ) the dangerous bit in my case however, was "THREE AXIS RUDDER FEET SYNDROME" I had to remember to LOCK my feet solid on landing and not make any ground steering input until I'd slowed right down, and then mumble to myself. . ."Push Left - Turn Right. . ." ! This was the procedure for up to a year of assorted triking. . .but as with other things,. . it just becomes natural after a while, and the brain switches to the correct mode whichever control type I've sat in since. . .

 

I wintessed several three axis "Convertees" gome to grief due to landing with "Rudder input" trying to compensate for drift using the non existent "Rudder" firmly ingrained into their brains. . .and you KNOW what's going to happen when the nosewheel contacts the runway Woopsy Doo. . .over we go. . .!

 

Fortunately, none were seriously hurt, but trikes don't react well to being rolled over sideways really,. . .tends to bend stuff badly. . . .and in the early days, Hull insurance was unavailble to us flying hell's angels of course. . .

 

After about only 350 hours ( ! ! ! ) I found it quite easy to flick the bar a little so that the upwind rear wheel contacted the grass first. . .pulling me straight along the strip !

 

This seems to work well at 50 mph landing speeds. . .but I dunno that I'd try that with a 100 HP fast hotship though. . . . It usually doesn't work if the crosswind is a little too strong though, and resulted, ( In my trike anyhow ) with the nose oscillating /bouncing left right left right a few times, something I termed the "Flexwing Ying - Yang" and written about in a post entitled same, on here some years ago. . . . Exciting stuff though.

 

All the trike instructors I have known have said to a man ( and one lady ) that students who are regular bikers seem to "Get it" somewhat sooner in their training than non bikers, I wonder if any Aussie mentors have noticed this ?

 

 

[Pearo]

On that basis I shouldn't side slip on final?

As I suggested earlier, go up to a decent height, do a slip and stall it....

 

Slipping is fine, just understand the consequences if you stall. Remember, if you stall on final, there is not much room to recover. For a standard approach you should not be slipping anyway. Flying an aircraft is inherently dangerous, why exacerbate the risk?

 

I did indeed do that in both a Tecnam P92 and a CTMC. Stalled with one stage flap and a boot full of rudder applied. All that happened was a pretty weak wing drop, definitely no spin to be seen in either aircraft. And once established on final (as opposed to turning base to final) how likely are you to either a) kick in full rudder deflections to remain aligned with the runway centreline or b) stall?

So are you suggesting a wingdrop on final is ok? How many feet does it take you to recover from a wing drop stall? I know I personally can recover from a wingdrop stall in 200ft in ideal circumstances when practicing at 4000ft. There was a good video here just recently showing the potential fatal consequences of a wing drop during landing.

 

 

[2tonne]

Pearo, you were asking me about practicing techniques at altitude - the only one talking about a wingdrop on final is you.

 

What I am suggesting is that it is highly unlikely I am going to stall on final (when already aligned with the runway and not turning) because I am using rudder to keep aligned with the centreline. The rudder inputs required are minimal. And if you have flown an aircraft like the J160 which exhibits noticeable adverse yaw, it is more straightforward (at least for me) to use gentle rudder inputs to remain aligned with the centreline rather than a number of coordinated aileron inputs. So, I don't understand all the hoo-ha - it is not like I am steering around the circuit with rudder! I am still making coordinated turns in the circuit.

 

And last time I checked, side slipping is still a standard manouver for aircraft without flaps, and is very useful technique for aircraft with flaps. Even the wing down /combination crosswind approach requires a slip.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I often wonder why there seems to be SO MUCH controversy with regard to landing a three axis controlled aeroplane,. . . .FCS. . . are there really THAT MANY methods ?

 

Reading though this thread I began to shake my head in wonder. . . . . . . very nearly spilled me cofffee I did. . . .( I really LIKE that Columbian blend,. . .I just wonder what they blend it with. . . ( ? ) probably much cheaper crap stuff I guess. . .) I have a really good coffee maker in the shack you see,. . .. it enables me to spend hours taking the pi$$ on forums. . . .

 

I have to admit here that I must be superman then. . . . I've never dropped a wing on final,. . .no matter what "Method" I used to fly it. . . so many diametrically opposed ideas about the best way to do it,. . .all you are going to do is frighten the crap out of any forum readers who may be thinking that landing is some kind off "witches' brew" . . .gimme a break guys, . .. it really ISN'T that difficult.

 

Don't complicate something which doesn't need complicating,. . .it really shouldn't be an "Expert's pi$$ing contest" should it. . .? There are more acceptable ways of doing the same thing than can be listed here. . . so let's just get real and cull the bull. Just teach your student what he/she needs to stay alive, and agree to disagree on the way that you did it. . .if they go and kill themselves shortly thereafter,. .. only then should you wonder if you got it wrong. . .or not,. . .as the case might be. . .

 

Kind regards, and no offence meant to other mentors far more experienced than I.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

It seems to me that there are some issues of lack of basic understanding of non-coordinated flight showing themselves here.

 

No doubt there will always be the two schools of thought about how to manage landings with a crosswind, either crabbing on final or slipping on final. I guess the choice is up to the individual, but it appears to me it's a lot like those who choose to drive cars with an automatic transmission compared to those who choose a manual gearbox. With an auto you can drive an auto, with a manual you can drive anything ...

 

Whilst I wouldn't bother slipping all the way down a long final I'd certainly be stabilised in the slip in a minor crosswind by the time I reached 100ft AGL and earlier when the crosswind is stronger.

 

Certainly those only flying tri-gear aircraft can get away with crabbing to the roundout and then giving a stab at the rudder to get something like lined-up with the runway because having the main-wheels behind the CG pulls the whole thing straight once they touch but it's a bit of an untidy affair in my opinion. At the very least also getting the windward wing down in the round-out means that the windward main-wheel touches first and it has the greater effect on pulling the rig straight ... gladly even if you make a mess of it in a tri-gear it invariably ends up OK because of the natural stability of having the point(s) of resistance (main-wheels) behind the point of rotation (CG).

 

But - if you use the same approach with a taildragger which has a natural instability, the mains being ahead of the CG, and get the timing wrong when stabbing at the pedal, or do too much or too little of it, it can get way too exciting far too quickly, so for tail-dragger flyers it's really essential to be fully proficient at flying with crossed controls, not only that but be fully conversant with the effects, and potential effects, of what you're doing.

 

There is absolutely no reason for people to fear a stall or wing drop while slipping on final, not only should it be well ingrained to avoid stalling while slipping, it's not a nasty thing if it does happen. Before rushing into howls of protest folks, just remember that's it's the skidding that's dangerous, not the slipping. Skidding is pro-spin, slipping is anti-spin - and recognition of the difference between them is very easy - if you're un-coordinated and using 'bottom-rudder' you're skidding (eg banked/turning to the left and using right stick with lots of left rudder - the classic scenario for a stall/spin when trying to tighten the Base/Final turn with rudder if overshooting the runway centreline, usually due to having a tailwind on Base) - and if you're un-coordinated and using 'top-rudder' you're slipping (eg banked to the left and using left stick and right rudder - used for traversing sideways into a crosswind to maintain a flightpath along the runway centreline, whilst also keeping the longitudinal axis aligned with the runway).

 

So make yourself a rule - avoid 'bottom-rudder'.

 

If the slipping-on-final technique is adopted, alignment with the runway and direction of travel is established and stabilised very early in the landing phase and so there is no need to suddenly de-stabilise everything in the last few seconds while you're busy during the round-out.

 

And there's no more likelihood of stalling during the slip (which is anti-spin anyway) than when crabbing because you ought to be flying your sightline which, hopefully, is nose downward toward the runway.

 

Unfortunately many folks just decide to avoid the whole slipping thing because they found it difficult and never properly mastered it during training, consequently they then go on to limit themselves to tri-gear aircraft, accept a clumsy stab at the pedals as being the best they can do and remain forever nervous of cross-winds.

 

The sad thing about that is that it's really easy to become fully proficient at crossed-control handling without ever leaving the ground. When I was teaching we used to spend a fair bit of time with all of our students running up and down the runway on one wheel, starting in calm conditions and switching between wheels several times on each run. With two or three runs each training session they could all do it easily and without losing any directional control when swapping sides, in most conditions and always well before solo.

 

Here are a couple of old pics from that era of Wayne Fisher doing it in a Drifter, you can do it with a tri-gear too, with the nose-wheel just off the ground, just keep the speed down and don't extend any flap - to prevent it flying off. If you're nervous about it at first go to a big airfield where it doesn't matter if you get out of line, until you have the hang of it -

 

 

 

 

[Phil Perry]

To Kasper,. . . .and other trike pilots,. . .

 

The Gemini Flash 2 aircraft had a wing design, which displayed an inherent very sharp stall characteristic,. . ie, One Inch ( 25mm in French measurements ) ie, one bar thickness. . .forward on the bar to stall and the same one inch back to fly again. . . it was named "The Widowmaker" by many early instructors, . .. for no good reason, since I only know of one reported fatality using that aircraft, and that was John Sharman, an ex-mate of mine ( "ex, because he's not with us any longer ) who killed himself by effing about with it and trying to do a "Spiral dive landing" which he had witnessed other VERY experienced instructors do,. . .from whatever height, spiralling above the runway theeshold and then landing off the end of the spiral. . . . .

 

This manouvre takes many hours of practice, and a very sharp mind and spatial / situational awareness to pull it off. . .problem was,. . he tried this with a mere 58 total hours in his logbook. No further comment required there. . . other than the fact that he drifted across on the descent (a side-wind does that to aeroplanes ) and he hit a tree at around 25 metres up. . .ripping a metre of his wingtip off. . . . . . He had seen Gordon "Hagar the Horrible" the CFI doing this on occasion, but Gordon had upwards of fifteen thousand hours hanging under flexwings, and was the second actual microlight pilot in the UK. . .so was reasonably proficient at one or two strange "Manouvres" because of this long experience. . .

 

My Flash two was a wonderful plane ( and still is BTW ) as this sharply defined stall can be used by an experienced pilot to lose unwanted height and thereby get into. . .small fields. The idea was to approach on final and continually stall - unstall - stall - unstall the wing, producing a "Stepped" approach,. . .all under completely full control,. . .I termed this the "flash2 sidestep". . . I found that it doesn't work on the later Alpha wing design, as this is virtually non stallable,. .. if such a thing is possible,. . .but it really doesn't want to stop flying. . .this made the design a very safe training machine, only problem was that if you were 5 knots too fast on flare, the bloody thing floated off the end of the strip and refused to sit down on the grass at all,. . requiring "another go. . ." around the circuit . . .! !

 

Later 912 / four stroke powered hotship trikes don't have this "problem" ( ? ) they are fast cruisers and fast landing speeds, early touch down on short fields like ours, are required. ( We still get guys running off the end in nil wind condx. . . ? )

 

I still love my 2 stroke Flash2 though. . .as long as I don't have to fly too far. . .! ! ! ( 60 mph cruise max ) and not every place sells Silkolene Comp 2 premix oil. . . .

 

I remember trying to buy it the first time I flew to France. . . "Avez vouz La Huille Deux Temps s'ill vouz plait monseiur ". . .was the correct question. . . ( Deux being "2" and "Temps" meaning "2 Times " ie, Two cycles, or STROKES as we Poms normally call them . . .shame I didn't know it at the time. . .Tee Hee. . . . Had a good day flying over all the Somme battlefields though,. .after I'd phoned my youngest Daugther, who now has has degrees in French language and Interpretation too. . . .back then she was a young high schoolie, with a brilliant mind and good at Frogese. . . . . ( I always reckoned she was the Milkman's child,. . .she looks nothing like me. . . . )

 

I found that French service stations ( La Stassion Serveece ) sell bloody 2 stroke at the damned pumps at most garages. . . .for all those bloody annoying little scooter thingies that the frog kids seem to adore. . . .

 

Vive La France. . . . but not at the moment as it's all shut down tight as a drum due to naughty muslims woth AK47s, but thats a story you'll have to read ( or not ) in. . . .OFF TOPIC. . . hey. . . . .

 

 

[Teckair]

On that basis I shouldn't side slip on final?

That would depend on if you can do it safely. The normal function of the rudder is to balance the aircraft exceptions are side slipping, aerobatics, landing flare and taxing. If you try to use the rudder for directional control while flying you will be slipping, skidding and out of balance.

 

 

[Nightmare]

If you have a wing drop on final, it is my opinion, you are not doing one of the fundamental things in a landing, having a stabilized approach, including keeping that speed at the optimum glide speed through out the approach. I understand that sudden wind gusts can push a plane into a stall, but I think that the plane would be traveling well above that speed if the approach speed is maintained properly. I would say that a stall would occur by attitude nose high adjustment, maybe with a wind gust, whilst not monitoring and maintaining the correct speed.

 

In the Lightwings I am training in, the rudder is extremely important for directional control, and I don't put the aircraft out of balance that often. I use the side slip technique if I'm a little high in the approach, it is a good way to loose more height if you are at full flap and still maintain the approach speed. For Xwind landings, I agree that the best method so far for me is the wing down method as the aircraft is always lined up with the runway. I understand that low wing aircraft may have an issue with this method.

 

 

[kasper]

much clipped...

All the trike instructors I have known have said to a man ( and one lady ) that students who are regular bikers seem to "Get it" somewhat sooner in their training than non bikers, I wonder if any Aussie mentors have noticed this ?

Yep - I was being polite and not directly pointing out that 3 axis 'rudder' flying on touchdown in a WS will end in the beasty having a lay down on its side on the runway to rest ... and that is far too common ... and I came to 3 axis flying through hang gliders so in air control of a WS was not an issue ... but had to unlearn the rudder and really focus on nose straight on short final

Yep - the upwind flick works on the 100hp beasties as well as the 50mph older stuff ... but to be frank a lot of the newer WS pilots who have never flown light slow WS tend to use the nice sprung underarriage and just land it a bit skewed and let the trike take the punishment (not great because the wing stress on the top of the pole as the wing (60kg plus of it) swings around a lot and you end up replacing the monopole and/or twisted hang brackets at annuals a lot more)

 

Yep the Flash 2 is an interesting beast to fly - and agree - the stall is easy to find and demo ;-)

 

I fly my Raven wings on my trikes here and my new Currawong is ready to go out and run around the sky ... once I weigh it and get it registered

 

If you get it the Curruwong is a small Australian Raven ... and my Currawong wing is a 9m span 11.5m^2 Raven type wing ... will be fun to see how it flys on a direct compare with the Raven wings - I have three trikes - 40hp, 50hp and 100hp and 4 wings - mix n match ;-) Woo Hoo!