flying dog Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (This is touch typed from today's paper) A councillor who fell asleep for up to 20 mminiutes while flying his plane to Sydney has blamed fatigue, illness - and listening to country music on the radio. Port Macquarie business-man and councillor Michael Cusato has been grounded after it was revealed he was snoozing while flying his Cessna 210 plane to Bankstwon airport in September. An Australian Transport Safety Bureau report found Mr Cusato switched his plane to auto-pilot and was listening to country and western music when he dozed off. The report also revealed the councillor and businessman failed to respond to several calls from air traffic controllers in both Brisbane and Sydney sa he cruised through Williamtown, near Newcastle, airspace at 8500 feet. About 20 minutes latre the plane had begun a "spiral descent" near Brookly Bridge without clearance and several thousand feel highter than he should have been. Mr Cusato said last night he was suffering from the fly and was very fatigued". "It was one of those afternoons where conditions were calm and fatigue took over". Yeah, right.
ayavner Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Great..... so this comes as I am awaiting results of my class 2 application. on the form, i ticked the box for sleep apnea, so with stuff like this going on who would blame CASA for either denying my app or putting me through endless hoops to avoid making a decision. I can't imagine it myself, every time I even sit in a plane my adrenaline goes through the roof.
flying dog Posted January 21, 2014 Author Posted January 21, 2014 (And I have to learn how to spell FELL - not feel.) Though a pilot feeling the stick has a WHOLE DIFFERENT meaning. ;)
flying dog Posted January 22, 2014 Author Posted January 22, 2014 I was going to say that, but thought better of it. I never seem to win when stating th obvious. 1
dutchroll Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 This statement: Mr Cusato said he had had little sleep before he made the flight, and was feeling unwell. sends it from the realms of "fatigue is insidious and could happen to anyone" into the realms of "well that was just a bloody stupid idea, wasn't it?" 3
turboplanner Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Great..... so this comes as I am awaiting results of my class 2 application. on the form, i ticked the box for sleep apnea, so with stuff like this going on who would blame CASA for either denying my app or putting me through endless hoops to avoid making a decision. I can't imagine it myself, every time I even sit in a plane my adrenaline goes through the roof. I can, I've seen that sort of pilot a few times. C type personality, nothing fazes them, never had an emergency and the 210 goes on auto pilot as soon as possible to they fly one finger, then head down in the cockpit, read a book, turn around and chat etc. The was a human factors incident Yenn; the question is did the pilot have complete disdain for human factors, and was that what finally got him? 1
facthunter Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Tired and sick? Perfect condition to go flying. Trouble is he thinks it is a legitimate excuse. He shouldn't be in the sky as PIC. Richard Head. Nev 1
Guernsey Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 People fall asleep driving their car without an auto pilot, just imagine what could have happened if he hadn't switched to auto pilot, he should not have been flying at all that day. Alan. 2
nong Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Some of you blokes must live in a perfect world. Don't your wives ever scream at you, don't things break down or jobs get screwed up? The reality is that sometimes a person just has to press on to get the job done. Purely recreational flights are easy to cancel. When an aircraft is being used for a job of work, the decision not to fly, is often not nearly so easy to make. The factors must be weighed up. Drowsiness can overcome anyone, if the flight is of some duration. This bloke was out of luck. Sadly, he didn't have the luxury of a co-pilot. We all know that airline pilots would never fall asleep. Yeah, sure... Studying "human factors" doesn't stop any of us from being human. HF is merely a device designed for the advancement of it's original advocates. We are seeing the same thing now with "safety systems" or whatever the monstrosity is called. 1
turboplanner Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Sorry old timer but the world is passing you by. Take a look at the new fatigue regulations in the truck industry and the penalties, and the chain of responsibility - the employer and the customer can now be sent to prison if a serious event occurs after they insisted to the driver that he had to "just press on to get the job done." There is no place for that attitude; take a look at the type of aircraft which use the airspace he crashed through. 2
dutchroll Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Some of you blokes must live in a perfect world. Don't your wives ever scream at you, don't things break down or jobs get screwed up?When an aircraft is being used for a job of work, the decision not to fly, is often not nearly so easy to make. The factors must be weighed up. Drowsiness can overcome anyone, if the flight is of some duration. This bloke was out of luck. Sadly, he didn't have the luxury of a co-pilot. Just some info for you here, coming from a pilot for a certain large Australian airline in my day job: In my employment world a decision to fly excessively fatigued and feeling unwell is taken very seriously and if I were to be involved in an incident in that state, I would be hung out to dry by my company. Calling in unfit for duty due to fatigue however, is actually fairly simple (I've done it). No penalty. 48 hours to rest without a medical certificate. Call back within 48 hours when you feel good to go. Submit a report for the fatigue database detailing the broad factors you think caused your fatigue. Not even a phone call from the boss or manager. You may need to fly for work, but you're not going to be helping your company very much from 6 ft under the ground. He wasn't "out of luck". He was "in luck" and should go and buy a lottery ticket for not ending up a CFIT statistic. We all know that airline pilots would never fall asleep. Yeah, sure...Studying "human factors" doesn't stop any of us from being human. HF is merely a device designed for the advancement of it's original advocates. We are seeing the same thing now with "safety systems" or whatever the monstrosity is called. OH&S has become a monstrosity but HF is quite distinct from this. Yes studying HF can be pretty dry sometimes but this is very dependant on the facilitator. My own personal experience having undertaken numerous mandatory HF courses in both the RAAF and airline world is that those who most loudly bemoan formal HF awareness and training are the ones who don't actually ever feel the need to apply it in real life. As for airline pilots falling asleep, we're actually allowed by the company under the approval of CASA, to nap on the flight deck, strapped in the seat, in strictly controlled circumstances when we feel tired. That's not to say I'm unaware of a couple of overseas incidents where 2 pilots have accidentally fallen asleep, but we have protocols to ensure that is extremely unlikely to happen, and that even if it did, it certainly wouldn't be for long. As a single pilot though you can't afford that luxury, so just don't fly tired (and he was feeling unwell too - obviously betting on the Quinella!) 1 1
JG3 Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 I carry No-Doz caffiene tablets in my aircraft, and always take one before an afternoon flight. There's something about droning along in an aircraft at that time of day that really brings on the heavy 'drowsies', and can't just pull over for a quick nap. JG
SDQDI Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 I carry No-Doz caffiene tablets in my aircraft, and always take one before an afternoon flight. There's something about droning along in an aircraft at that time of day that really brings on the heavy 'drowsies', and can't just pull over for a quick nap.JG Yeah we have to remember you don't need to be tired to fall asleep the closest I have ever come to killing myself was after a good nights sleep I felt perfectly fine and mid morning wife and I were heading to town wouldn't have been driving for ten minutes when I dozed off, if she hadn't been with me it would have ended differently, I wasn't sleep deprived I wasn't tired I was just very comfy:cold: And say what you like about processes being in place to fight fatigue but look at the trucking industry most are complying but there is still quiet a few that push harder than they should. 2
aj_richo Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Its not confined to private pilots, a number of years ago I had to fly on a regional service from Adelaide to Port Augusta. It was a late winters afternoon, the single pilot had leaned the engines on the Navajo, switched on the autopilot, sun was streaming into the cockpit. I was sitting a row back, watching the progress of the flight, when I noticed the subtle head bobbing.. Yep he dozed off, for about 5 mins.. I thought mmm... thats professional, do I wake him or not? I was about to get out my seat and poke his shoulder but he woke up.. looked at me, mumbled something and went back to fiddling knobs. He managed to stay awake for the rest of the flight, and avoided me at the conclusion. 1
Yenn Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I've never fallen asleep driving or flying, but driving is so easy and with the easy control of a modern vehicle I find boredom makes me start to yawn. I find that there is not enough going on at low speeds to keep me active and therefore I start to wander mentally. I used to be a fast driver and never got tired, but not so now. it could of course be age related. I never fail to be amazed at the number of thing I see on a journey, that my passengers miss, including nearby cattle or roos and unusual road surroundings.
rgmwa Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I carry No-Doz caffiene tablets in my aircraft, and always take one before an afternoon flight. There's something about droning along in an aircraft at that time of day that really brings on the heavy 'drowsies', and can't just pull over for a quick nap.JG It's a good point. Even if you feel fine and fully rested when you take off, how do you make sure you don't doze off during a long flight. I've pulled over for a rest more than once when driving and starting to feel drowsy, but you can't do that in the air. What tips/tricks do others use? rgmwa
flying dog Posted January 23, 2014 Author Posted January 23, 2014 Yenn, But thePAX don't - usually - worry ab out road conditions. To keep myself awake, I do mental tests like fuel consumtion, time to next town, etc. 1
flying dog Posted January 23, 2014 Author Posted January 23, 2014 rgmwa, Like with driving, I do en-route calculations. Check fule used to flight plan, fuel burn rate, check for cross winds, and try to calculate them. I don't care if the answer is right or wrong, I just try to go through the montions of from which direction it is blowning and how strong it is. Aalas the back of the thighs sufferes a lot and so I take my feet off the pedals fora while. Drink a bit of water at regular intervals. Listen to the radio and keep a picture of where the planes are, and what they are doing. 1 1
facthunter Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Take an alarm clock and keep resetting it. Nev 1 1
Guernsey Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I've never fallen asleep driving or flying, but driving is so easy and with the easy control of a modern vehicle I find boredom makes me start to yawn. I find that there is not enough going on at low speeds to keep me active and therefore I start to wander mentally. I used to be a fast driver and never got tired, but not so now. it could of course be age related. I never fail to be amazed at the number of thing I see on a journey, that my passengers miss, including nearby cattle or roos and unusual road surroundings. Yenn, you probably keep awake whilst driving because you are continually 'aircraft spotting'. I bet your passengers don't see them either. Alan.
Guernsey Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 THAT put's you to sleep. Nev True, but only after a couple of hours or so, surely. Alan.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now