rgmwa Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Mile high club. Good suggestion, but may compromise situational awareness. Could be tricky to explain to ATC why you strayed into the heavy traffic. rgmwa
facthunter Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 They might not have studied the Karma Sutra , so may not understand your exact position. Nev 1 4
ayavner Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 lets see... blah blah blah... GEAR UP. blah blah blah hatches something blah blah
rgmwa Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Lack of positional awareness could be a problem for all concerned. rgmwa
Doug Evans Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 bye a electric dog collar have ya pax zap ya ........he he 1 2
SDQDI Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 bye a electric dog collar have ya pax zap ya ........he he I hope that wasn't in conjunction with the mile high suggestion? 1 1
dazza 38 Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I've never fallen asleep driving or flying, but driving is so easy and with the easy control of a modern vehicle I find boredom makes me start to yawn. I find that there is not enough going on at low speeds to keep me active and therefore I start to wander mentally. I used to be a fast driver and never got tired, but not so now. it could of course be age related. I never fail to be amazed at the number of thing I see on a journey, that my passengers miss, including nearby cattle or roos and unusual road surroundings. I have only ever owned manual vehicles. I get bored driving, even though I have something useful to do like change gears. I reckon that, if I had to drive a automatic vehicle I would die from boredom. 1
dazza 38 Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 iIts pretty common knowledge these days - Back in the first Gulf War USAF pilots used to take little orange "Go Pills " to combat fatigue . A few pilots got hooked on the pills, then they where given another pill (a downer to make them sleep back at the base because they were buzzing.) This of course put some of them on this up and down cycle of drugs. Unfortunately a F16 accidently wasted some allied Canadians, it was claimed by the USAF pilot the go pills where what caused him to miss identify the Canadians as Iraqi. 1
Guest ozzie Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Take my mate Dave. He just won't shut up. continuous stream of chatter. He will keep you awake the whole trip if you dont push him out first.
Guest ozzie Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Take my mate Dave. He just won't shut up. continuous stream of chatter. He will keep you awake the whole trip if you dont push him out first.
aj_richo Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Take my mate Dave. He just won't shut up. continuous stream of chatter. He will keep you awake the whole trip if you dont push him out first. ..and his ozzie mate bwah ha ha
SDQDI Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 ..and his ozzie mate bwah ha ha Lol yeah that Ozzie fella just says the same thing over and over:clap:that might put you to sleep:roflmao: 1
Virago Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 He isn't the first and wont be the last to fall asleep while flying on autopilot. I tell you what's more scary though ... and that's waking up from a microsleep while riding a motorbike ... been there, done that! Happened on the way home to W.A. from Phillip island in 2005.
Tomo Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Poor fella has to work three times as hard to pay for his plane, no wonder he fell asleep!
nong Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Sorry old timer but the world is passing you by.Take a look at the new fatigue regulations in the truck industry and the penalties, and the chain of responsibility - the employer and the customer can now be sent to prison if a serious event occurs after they insisted to the driver that he had to "just press on to get the job done." There is no place for that attitude; take a look at the type of aircraft which use the airspace he crashed through. "old timer".....Priceless! I love the way some of you blokes cling to your overregulation as if it were a badge of honour. Ha ha. What a crack up! Woolworths Ltd (say, as the customer, purely for example) "can now be sent to prison" I'd like to see that.....the jailing of a company.
coljones Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 "old timer".....Priceless! I love the way some of you blokes cling to your overregulation as if it were a badge of honour.Ha ha. What a crack up! Woolworths Ltd (say, as the customer, purely for example) "can now be sent to prison" I'd like to see that.....the jailing of a company. Not a problem, Nong. The CEO is the one in the firing line unless he can offset down the line. There are not enough CEOs going to jail but they are starting to get the message about corporate responsibility, duty of care and not crapping in someone else's back yard. The enforcers used to fine the $2 companies now the law lets them fine the operators of the companies as well - that means a personal liability. I suggest you sit back and watch the NSW Mining Licence scandals and see how much personal liability is enforced through the courts and who gets the shirt ripped off their backs (and a lot of skin as well).
turboplanner Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 "old timer".....Priceless! I love the way some of you blokes cling to your overregulation as if it were a badge of honour. Ha ha. What a crack up! Woolworths Ltd (say, as the customer, purely for example) "can now be sent to prison" I'd like to see that.....the jailing of a company. "Customer" is helpfully spelled out here: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/35253592-1B8B-4574-B907-E9AC95F8AAD9/0/cutomerbooklet.pdf Overregulation? Truck drivers were dying along with innocent motorists, so tougher legislation was introduced over the years, with no result, but at coronial inquiries etc it was noticed that drivers consistently gave evidence that they would lose their jobs if they didn't exceed log book hours and speed. Governments started tracking the evidence for this, and found that what the drivers were saying was correct - they were being forced to operate unsafely. From around 2000 some companies received substantial fines, but it became clear the executives were just considering these as an operating cost, so the States and Territories introduced Chain of Responsibility legislation which made senior employees and managers legally responsible for the driver's behaviour if they caused it. The legislation was pretty much gazetted by all States and Territories by 2005 - so we've operated with COR for eight years. I particularly didn't mention specific companies or details, because during the legislation phase the point was made over and over again that the CEO of Coles or Woolworths could be charged if they insisted on deliveries in less than legal times etc. This was rather unfair in my opinion, because both those companies had a reputation for professional behaviour. 1
Guest Andys@coffs Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 JG made a point about being sleepy in the afternoon...... As a long time type 1 diabetic I think I'll take the opportunity to point out that those who are diabetics, and those that are on the way, but haven't yet been diagnosed can have the issue in their life where a carbohydrate rich meal, where the carbohydrate is of the type that the body can quickly and readily turn into glucose, can within a relatively short time have you feeling very much like you need a nap. What follows is my own personal experience, but last I checked I think I'm relatively representative of the human form...... After a meal blood sugars rise. In healthy humans that rise is minor because the pancreas releases insulin which unlocks cells ability to take in the sugar in the blood and use it for energy. In a type 1 such as myself there is no insulin, in a type 2 its present but for some reason doesn't work as well as other healthy individuals insulin works. As a result the blood sugars rise. For me when I get to about 8mmols of glucose I become extremely tired. That tiredness lasts until the sugar levels decrease below 8 or rise above 10mmols, at which point everything seems Ok (but definitely isn't!) So, if after a lunch high in simple carbs (white bread and or cakes are very good at quickly raising sugar levels....which isn't good) you feel tired try and find a mate who has a Blood Glucose meter and with a simple pin prick test, test yourself when you feel tired. If you sugar levels are >5.5mmols then talk to your doctor.. Its an unfortunate truth of type 2 diabetes (also called middle age onset diabetes) that those who have blood sugar levels at some times of the day where those levels are in the damage producing range, can in general not feel unwell or in need of visiting a Dr......It has to get a whole lot worse before you need to visit......or in the case of someone becoming a type 1 where in short time you will find yourself in dire need of a dr... If elevated blood sugar levels cause you to need to take caffeine tablets to stay awake it might be worth being tested for diabetes. Diabetes isn't the only possible cause but it is a leading cause and worth a quick and simple test to check. Another simple way to test is to check if a lunch that doesn't have any simple carbohydrates has the same affect.....if you swap out the white bread for a piece of fruit and just eat the protein middle of the sandwich by itself. Having to take a caffeine tablet to stay awake in any circumstance is not normal I would have thought. Andy
DrZoos Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Also beware using caffine to stay awake. It varies , but generally speaking coffee stimulates the cns for about 40-60 min and then you go downhill into a sedated cns around 20-40 min later. So coffee on the ground may infaxt make you tireder in the air around an hour plus later. And for those that rely on many cups per day, the effects of adrenal exhaustion may be very dangerous , especially if your a smoker.
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I think this is a very serious issue; and I'd like some real answers. I didn't find the HF course all that much practical use on this. I regularly drive around 500 Km - in an automatic car, with cruise control - and on occasion I've had to stop and have a snooze. Mostly on the way home, after an intensive week at a client's premises; not on the way out, when I'm fresh - you can't beat a good night's sleep. Definitely a cumulative fatigue thing, and I've learned to spot the early signs - but it took a few frights with microsleeps to teach me that. Unfortunately, you can't pull over & have a snooze in an aircraft; but you can plan a stop every couple of hours, and have a nap if you need one; but if you do, it's probably a sign you've done enough flying for one day. I've never had this problem when flying - I've never had the luxury of an autopilot that actually worked; and there's enough to do to keep one alert, I find. If you're chasing "lift" in a glider, or following a speed-to-fly ring, you've plenty to do to keep you awake, if watching out for traffic & staying out of controlled airspace etc isn't sufficient. But the time for which one can maintain concentration is finite, and if you push it too far, you'll be in trouble. I make it a rule to always have water available; and when they are in season, grapes. A Mars Bar is revolting, but it's good in my experience for about 30 minutes - but you had better be on the ground by then, because you aren't going to be fit to fly again that day. It does seem to be age-related.
Old Koreelah Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 Getting sleepy at the wheel is affected by my comfort level as well as how busy my brain is. I have almost nodded off a number of times in the car, but never on the bike- even after a thousand-mile ride. Keeping the brain busy, fresh air, sensible diet and not too comfortable seems to be the key. There is so much to do while flying, I can't imagine it being a problem.
Kununurra Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 How lucky are we that this did not end in a tragedy for not one but possibly many. I am sick of hearing excuses for all the bad decisions that are made like oh poor man was tired, sick, stressed! How about being accountable for a stupid decision which was to fly on that day, as many have said before me life is about choices and although the outcome was ok in this situation the pilot made a poor choice. Impound the plane maybe as this is no different than a hoon driver. I am sure there will be much said about this thought.
SDQDI Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 How lucky are we that this did not end in a tragedy for not one but possibly many.I am sick of hearing excuses for all the bad decisions that are made like oh poor man was tired, sick, stressed! How about being accountable for a stupid decision which was to fly on that day, as many have said before me life is about choices and although the outcome was ok in this situation the pilot made a poor choice. Impound the plane maybe as this is no different than a hoon driver. I am sure there will be much said about this thought. Yes he did make a poor choice but I think it is quiet a bit different to a hoon driver. Totally different attitudes even if the end result can both put people at risk of harm. On a lighter note its good to know that you don't make poor choices (I was going to ask if that was a jab in your avatar but thought that was going a bit far:no way:, sorry) Also in regards to earlier posts something else to be aware of after a nice days flying if you jump in your car and have a bit of a trip to get home that will be when fatigue really gets you, after the rush and excitement.
Kununurra Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Attitude is still the same the way I see it having no respect for others. Thanks for the humour re the avatar.
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