Board members expressing opinion - thread split

[motzartmerv]

The solution rests with him.

Oh does it? Whats the solution. Stop expressing his opinion on jabs? ok. What else isnt cotia? What else shall we ban him from? Rotaxes aswel? Engines as a subject?..

Aircraft too? im sure someone will have an opinion (or a dog in that fight too) that wont align. The state of the RAA? better keep him quiet there too huh? Infact. Maj, you should just shudup all together.

 

Then we can all go back to complaining that the board doesnt communicate, and nobody has their finger on the pulse. And its all a bunch of secretive cloak and dagger.

 

Ill say it again. This is NOT an official RAA website. Maj can say what he likes. if you dont like what he says..Dont vote for him..

 

 

[gandalph]

Oh does it? Whats the solution. Stop expressing his opinion on jabs? ok. What else isnt cotia? What else shall we ban him from? Rotaxes aswel? Engines as a subject?..Aircraft too? im sure someone will have an opinion (or a dog in that fight too) that wont align. The state of the RAA? better keep him quiet there too huh? Infact. Maj, you should just shudup all together.

Then we can all go back to complaining that the board doesnt communicate, and nobody has their finger on the pulse. And its all a bunch of secretive cloak and dagger.

 

Ill say it again. This is NOT an official RAA website. Maj can say what he likes. if you dont like what he says..Dont vote for him..

Merv, Have a Snickers. You're not yourself when your blood sugar's down:cheezy grin:

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Jezz , is he done ? What a godamn bore,.......and a whole 29 posts !....nope, hang on, he's up to 35 now...Yeehaa....Maj....

 

 

[ahlocks]

Merv, Have a Snickers. You're not yourself when your blood sugar's down:cheezy grin:

sorry... shouldn't laugh but it was a good line.....

 

P.S. Play nice or the thread gets closed.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Merv, Have a Snickers. You're not yourself when your blood sugar's down:cheezy grin:

No, I prefer a Mars bar. But thats not to say snickers arent cool, i just personally think mars bars are the superior bar. I know snickers are cheap, but its like anything in life, you get what you pay for huh?:)

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Whos not playing nice reff (with the crap sense of humour..lol)

 

 

[ahlocks]

2 posts have had to go ta tas for sniping. Would hate to have to close a thread because the posters have decided to rip into one another instead of debating the issue.

 

 

[Powerin]

I believe its equally important that board members can speak openly about what goes on in board meetings, who votes which way and for what reasons. As well as raising imminent issues with the membership. If the board really represents its members then they have nothing to fear about anything.

Off topic, and I've said it before....but this just doesn't work. Nothing would ever get done or issues would not be discussed properly if board members were afraid that everything they said would become public.

In a board meeting matters need to be fleshed out, things get said in the heat of the moment, sometimes libelous things may be said to make a point, personal matters are raised, people play devils advocate to examine both sides of the argument, all of which needs to happen to reach an informed decision, but could be misinterpreted if it became public. If our board needed to discuss a matter about difficulties with a certain member and his/her name was DrZoos, would you really want all those discussions to become public? Who is to say what is confidential and what is not?

 

When board members of any organisation shoot off at the mouth with their own versions of what happened in a board meeting it nearly always ends badly. As much as we would like to know the gory details, and as much as we might think it is our right to know, it is just a bad idea.

 

 

[coljones]

Off topic, and I've said it before....but this just doesn't work. Nothing would ever get done or issues would not be discussed properly if board members were afraid that everything they said would become public.In a board meeting matters need to be fleshed out, things get said in the heat of the moment, sometimes libelous things may be said to make a point, personal matters are raised, people play devils advocate to examine both sides of the argument, all of which needs to happen to reach an informed decision, but could be misinterpreted if it became public. If our board needed to discuss a matter about difficulties with a certain member and his/her name was DrZoos, would you really want all those discussions to become public? Who is to say what is confidential and what is not?

 

When board members of any organisation shoot off at the mouth with their own versions of what happened in a board meeting it nearly always ends badly. As much as we would like to know the gory details, and as much as we might think it is our right to know, it is just a bad idea.

I'm not sure that people want to know the full flavour of the meeting and who got stuck into who or, indeed, who got into the plonk.

What is being demanded are the minutes of the meeting which is basically a formal record of what was proposed and what was decided and published within a reasonable period after the close of the meeting. If there are confidential matters then the board can simply move into camera, decide the business and decide the degree of the confidentiality and then move out of camera and minute the decision. Minutes are not Hansard and thus should not record blow by blow descriptions. In the past we have received a precis of the meetings.

 

As I understand it meetings of the board are open to members.

 

The current confidentiality is over the top and has received much condemnation in the past for good reason.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

As I understand it meetings of the board are open to members.

.

 

... and be denied a chance to rant ignorantly in a forum? What the hell are you on man?? .. you should be banned from the Internet!!!

 

 

[turboplanner]

Pow if that was the issue I'd agree with you but the members are getting NOTHING!

 

There is ample scope for some matters to be dealt with in camera.

 

Last time I looked at the Constitution there was no provision for board members to be committed to secrecy; this is an Incorporated Association required to operate in accordance with its constitution.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Ladies and gentlemen, I was freely elected to the board no doubt by people who were well aware of my particular beliefs, likes and dislikes, and biases, for I have never attempted to hide, or sugar-coat them, nor do I intend to, it's just not my style.

 

Many of my votes are no doubt from folks on this forum who know me well, after many years of contact.

 

When they gave me their vote, they no doubt assumed I had the intelligence to leave my personal biases at the boardroom door, which I fully intend to do.

 

All other board members bring their biases with them also, and are expected to do the same.

 

My acceptance to the board position is with a complete open mind to the problems of all members, and with the associations long-term survival as my main focus. If you go back and read my election statement, it says the same.

 

When one sits on the higher rungs up the ladder, it is with the knowledge that you'll never please everybody, all of the time, just comes with the territory. If you don't like my style, you've only got two years to put up with it, and then you either vote me in or out...simple.

 

I have already initiated a monthly send out newsletter to all CFIs, instructors, and other interested persons in my area. The first send out of this has been well recieved, and it will be a two- way street, as without input, a board member is useless effectively. Many of the recipients are Jab owners, or train in Jabs.

 

I pull no punches, and my newsletter content will include everything that I have been involved with at board level, for or against, as best I am permitted.

 

I can only hope that your regional elected board members are doing the same within your area....................Maj.....

 

 

[Captain]

Man. Cant win hey. Some people say there isnt enough communication from the board. Some people say that maj should check everything he says with the board.It doesnt say "RAA board member" in his handle. This is not the official RAA website. He has been posting as Maj for years before he was on the board. He qualifies his statements as not being the views of the board (unless he is actually expressing board views). Whats the problem here people? Cant you see the resource for what it is. You have the ear of a board member here. He is willing to take comment and give some. I sence the axes are being grinned in the background here and its got little to do with Ross expressing his "qualified" opinion on jabiru engines. lets not forget, this dude has been fixing (and operating) aeroplane engines professionally since long before jabiru were around:)

Spot on Motza.

 

 

 

I strongly commend Madge for his posts and for staying involved with this Forum. Most others bugger off from here as soon as they use this Forum as a platform, get known and get elected.

 

 

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Russ]

I believe Ross has the best of intentions to fullfill a most difficult roll. Interaction here, and the board roll. I,ve been there done that, it is hard.

 

A guaranteed way to settle the fire, is for Ross to just say nothing here, he just lurks, that would be so easy, but we here would be the losers.

 

He,s made a couple of blunders ( gyro comments that were way off the facts, and just recently a comment re RAA and jabiru engines ) both these were just wrong.

 

One being wrong for non factual, the other was ill thought.

 

I bet every one here, if the opertunity arose, would thoughilly enjoy the company and a beer with Ross, I look forward to that also.

 

I suggest Ross continues as himself, we don,t immediately link him to the rep role, they are 2 completely different folks, when he/ she ( board rep ) wishes to post here as " rep"

 

That must be stated, then other posts are just personal points and views.

 

Personal views/ biases / whatever, we all have, and it follows, they will to some extent follow you to the board room, that,s life, thankfully others there balance the whole agenda, and a good outcome is achieved.

 

Keep up the great work Ross, I enjoy your comments as well ( in the main ) look forward to meeting up, and having that beer.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

I enjoy reading Maj posts and support his commitment to the cause.

 

BUT, why keep on about the Jab engine. He has made his feelings known, fair enough, but he just keeps it going At every opportunity.

 

If he is serious in his beliefs, then perhaps his position as a board member maybe the place to complain and start some investigational action through the available channels, keeping in mind that there are plenty of happy Jab owners and pilots out there.

 

Maj, start a poll for happy and unhappy Jab owners. Perhaps the answer lays there? At least you would get some figures to work on.

 

IMHO

 

Phil.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Maj, start a poll for happy and unhappy Jab owners. Perhaps the answer lays there? At least you would get some figures to work on.

IMHO

 

Phil.

Like this poll?

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/jabiru-engine-life-times.56805/

 

 

[coljones]

snip .. snip .. snipI have already initiated a monthly send out newsletter to all CFIs, instructors, and other interested persons in my area. The first send out of this has been well recieved, and it will be a two- way street, as without input, a board member is useless effectively. Many of the recipients are Jab owners, or train in Jabs.

 

I pull no punches, and my newsletter content will include everything that I have been involved with at board level, for or against, as best I am permitted.

Hello Ross, could you post your newsletter here as you write good and are the only RAA rep prepared to speak and (probably) listen.

 

Your start as a rep has been pretty good - I like that you are open, you state your position and you are prepared to debate the issues and to defend yourself.

 

I can only hope that your regional elected board members are doing the same within your area....................Maj.....

We hope on in NSW - nothing like that happening here. Perhaps they write a newsletter and then chuck it out into the airstrip in the vainglorious hope that I might fly past and read it. Except for Don, it has always been thus.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Like this poll?http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/jabiru-engine-life-times.56805/

The poll Doesn't indicate NO breakdowns.

 

Any problems found at leak down test ie valve lapping required, in my opinion is not a breakdown, just regular maintenance.

 

GA engines do this regularly at service I am told.

 

Phil.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yes it does. 1000 with no breakdowns? Sounds like ...umm..No breakdowns to me...

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Remember. these engines are meant to be 2000 TBO. :)

 

 

[SDQDI]

The poll Doesn't indicate NO breakdowns.Any problems found at leak down test ie valve lapping required, in my opinion is not a breakdown, just regular maintenance.

GA engines do this regularly at service I am told.

 

Phil.

So a problem isn't a breakdown?

I can see how sometimes you have to do extra things to maintain any engine in good order ie top up oil tighten hose clamps etc but I think once you are talking valve lapping I think that would nearly be classed as a breakdown. I mean if they aren't lapped then how much longer till it would breakdown? I wouldn't like my mechanic telling me valve lapping was 'regular maintenance'

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Remember. these engines are meant to be 2000 TBO. :)

Actually .1000 hours top end

 

2000 top and bottom

 

 

[motzartmerv]

TBO is 2000, like i said.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I am concerned about the call for board minutes. I have spent half a lifetime on public and private company boards and have never been called upon to release board minutes to the members or shareholders. If you did, the minutes would have to be so bland that they were not a sufficiently accurate record of meetings. There is nothing wrong with releasing a summary of the meeting outcomes or decisions, but that is not a set of minutes. One legal school of thought says that board members should not take board papers out of the hoard room or keep copies of them. I have worked in that environment. In these litigious times we have to respect the confidentiality and discretion of our elected members. They have to continuously decide what they can communicate to members and what they can't. I don't know Maj from a bar of soap but I respect the balance he is trying to achieve.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I have spent half a lifetime on public and private company boards and have never been called upon to release board minutes to the members or shareholders.

These people are not Board Members as you would know it, they are a Committee of Management consisting of elected Members. There's nothing except for the odd in-camera issues once a year or two that needs to be kept from the members - same as any other Association.