What freq to use?

[Chocolate]

Ok, not in ctaf, paddock strip lets say. Airstrip aerodrome more than ten miles away but within 30 miles. What freq to use... A mate says he just uses multicom all the time. I think!,the aip says use area freq but in my hilly area I can't see that as too useful. Hands off controls in first or last five mins of flight to change freq not an option.

 

So the rules say....what. Exactly. Then what do you really do...go along with multicom as primary freq?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

126.700 is the common frequency for most of Qld if there is NOT a Ctaf

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

I'd go with126.7 when not on area freq, this is usually the best method, but may not work in every area.

 

 

[kaz3g]

CAAP 166-1(2) gives you a huge amount of information on radio and circuits and CTAFs and much more. Really good to read it and save the contents somewhere...preferably your memory.

 

When within 10 miles of a CTAF and inside its Broadcast Areaa use the CTAF frequency whatever it is. Otherwise it is the area frequency that should be monitored.

 

If you live and fly in Victoria, for example, you won't get to hear many people if you sit on 126.7 because the majority of CTAFs operate on other frequencies...possibly good you don't hear them because likely they'll be saying something rude about you.

 

Read the CAAP...it is actually pretty useful.

 

Kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

Taking it a step further...

 

If the CTAF has a designated frequency use it. It may be a discreet frequency or it may be 126.7. For example, YYWG has a designated CTAF frequency of 126.7 listed in ERSA.

 

If it doesn't have a designated frequency, the CAAP says we should use the Area Frequency even though this is a little clouded by the definition of Multicom in the AIP.

 

So here is a conundrum. I have never been to Coleambally in NSW. It's shown on the WAC but not recorded in ERSA. Looking at the charts, there is no CTAF within 10 NM, but there is another small airfield close by called Pooginook which also is not recorded in ERSA. Interestingly, although they are only a short distance apart, they have separate Area frequencies because the boundary runs between them. What frequency should I to use to give an inbound call approaching Coleambally from the south?

 

It seems to me that this is a case where Multicom becomes the most likely choice (following the AIP) with a back-up call on Area (complying with the CAAP), but which Area do I use? To add to confusion, if I refer to my AOPA Airfield Directory I am told to use the FIS on ML 126.0!

 

But what about Pheasant Creek in the Yarra Valley? No designated frequency, not shown on charts, and not listed in ERSA. Both Lilydale and Coldstream, the nearest CTAFs use 119.1 but are at least 13NM away. Aircraft departing or arriving YLIL or YCEM along the adjacent Inland VFR corridor will correctly be using ML RAS on 135.7. Not much to be gained from a call by a departing aircraft at Pheasant Creek on Multicom, but pretty useful to be listening out on the Area Frequency and certainly making a call if there is anything around. I've always found ATC more than happy to take a quick position and intentions call.

 

Perhaps this is something that could be referred by our Board to CASA so that a clearer set of directives might be issued?

 

Kaz

 

 

[frank marriott]

The AIP, VFG and RA-Aus tutorial are all in step but not with the CAAP. The RA-Aus tutorial actually goes further to state "do not use the area freq".

 

I would suggest the CAAP needs revisiting by CASA???????? I think I can guess what the CAAP is aimed at but as it is only a GUESS then your guess in as valid as mine.

 

Some of the "life histories" I continually hear on 126.7 would create a problem on area [maybe even some language].

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

Frank you are so right, short and concise, and appropriate, there is no point saying you are blah blah from Big Teds Farm, when the farm isn't on any map used by any other aviator, a good habit would be to listen to other pilot reports on the area freq and try and follow the general layout, notice the long "War and Peace" transmissions and find a happy medium, take your time ( but don't go watching the grass grow), ATC 's usually expect about 80% of the calls we receive, we use time and radar to keep a "Picture" in our heads, so when we get an unsolicited call, we might need a second or two to prepare for this unexpected information. This issue is observed throughout the country, use your best guess and make sure you have checked all the boxes.

 

 

[metalman]

when your not in a ctaf or CTA you should be on the area freq, theres no point being on a frequency that isn't monitored, as well as if everyone is on the correct freq then everyone is contactable, I've lost count of the number of VCA's I've heard ATC trying to contact and wondered if the offender was trying to hide or wasn't listening

 

 

[facthunter]

The whole thing should not be a guessing game. There is a best frequency when enroute available for where you are and also circuit (local) traffic communication. It might be good to monitor both if appropriate. at times Don't be afraid of using your radio. I think the standard has dropped terribly. What a waste of a means of improving safety. Nev

 

 

[Chocolate]

Agree with you Metalman about it shouldn't be a guessing game. however what is a VCA please?

 

 

[metalman]

Agree with you Metalman about it shouldn't be a guessing game. however what is a VCA please?

Violation of Controlled Airspace,,,,,,like we need more acronyms ;-)

 

 

[Cosmick]

Difficulty is the FIA changes quite often and where is the dotted line. I was approx 20nm south of Gympie (FIA 124.6) but I was still on 129.o which I use outside YCAB CTAF, I received a proximity alert from Brisbane Centre confirmed by ident.

 

Is it the same signal just repeaters on different frequencies ?.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Yes....Adjacent areas with the same Melb or Brisbane Control repeat adjacent area transmissions. Its essential when you are close to boundaries otherwise you know nothing of what lies just ahead until you switch over.

 

Andy

 

 

[DrZoos]

Andy i find you know nothing of what lies ahead anyway, because its only the big guys using area. So many small aircraft fly round in area freq space with no calls at all. Whats your thoughts on that???

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

The fact that you hear some means you are up on those hearing nothing because they are listening to multicom.......To me I'm personally not that interested in transiting aircraft, those that are IFR and using centre aren't going to conflict with me down where I am and those at my altitudes are like me, hopefully using correct hemispherical cruising altitudes, but its worth listening anyway, occasionally where there is radar coverage you might well find yourself referred to as unverified primary paint (no Txponder on) VFR traffic as center takes care of the IFR gang, however if Im approaching an airport that has RPT aircraft then I want to hear them and them to hear me. Generally they will Tx on center before transferring to the ERSA advised local frequency. I had that happen with a REX flight out of Lismore a week or so ago,who asked me as he lined up to depart to keep to the west of the centreline, which I was very happy to do... I was on the CTAF at the time but could if at the 10 mile point or just beyond have been on center....

 

If on center (whether feeling informed or as you suggest still in the dark) and the noise suddenly stops I want to play the mayday game without thinking "Oh hell whats the center freq for where I am".......thank you OzRunways that aspect alone (choose to display FIS in the uptop datafields) makes life much easier.......I'm sure Txing a mayday on a center freq where I know there is someone listening and who has the gear to play back a hurried OMG transmission to pick up that lat long I pushed out in 1.1seconds rather than yell to multicom and just hope that someone heard me......

 

Lastly I'm yet to hear anyone on multicom announce "The weather forecast for area 20 has just changed QNH is now XXXX......" so that we all fly with reference to the same standard.....

 

Whether it does it for you or not we are told to monitor it and clearly ATC expect us to. Making sure that I'm not over MTOW is a pain as well....but best I take care of that business!

 

Andy

 

 

[Ryanm]

Listening to the area frequency is just as important whether you're operating IFR or VFR.

 

You can occasionally receive traffic information if under radar coverage if there is an aircraft coming right at you (I've been alerted to this on more than one occasion while operating VFR), as well as operational information for that particular area (SIGMETS, NOTAMS, Restricted areas that have opened etc).

 

 

[kaz3g]

Page 16 CAAP(1)-2:

 

"6.6.2 At aerodromes where the carriage of radio is not mandatory, pilots of radio-equipped aircraft should monitor the CTAF and, at a minimum, broadcast their intentions in accordance with the minimum calls set-out in Section 7.3 of this CAAP. Good airmanship also implies that pilots should monitor and broadcast their intentions on the relevant Area Frequency when operating at aerodromes not in ESRA or marked on charts.

 

Note: Feedback from the industry suggests there is some confusion about this procedure, and many pilots are using the Multicom frequency, 126.7 MHz, at aerodromes without a CTAF. Pilots should use the relevant Area Frequency as described above, unless they are in the vicinity of a CTAF aerodrome or in a Broadcast Area "

 

In the old days we all transmitted and listened to the gospel according to FIS/ATC at least every half hour as I recall. We were then weaned off the teat and told we were all grown up and could be trusted to talk to one another while keeping a good look out. The bigger ones will be flying IFR on a plan and the medium ones VFR on a plan. So you just have to keep looking and listening for littlies like us and hope people make calls and that ATC might give a warning in case of close proximity.

 

Kaz

 

 

[metalman]

I had a fairly lengthy response ,,,deleted it,,,controlled airspace??? If using the area freq is just to difficult we do not belong in a controlled zone, if you are unsure of what you should be doing while aloft, then PLEASE find a competent instructor and get answers,

 

 

[Powerin]

I not sure of the answer, but when out in the sticks don't forget the aggies, fireys, surveyors, powerline inspectors etc that might be flying around and using bush strips. They'll usually be below 500ft, but I'd be making a call on the area frequency when using a strip outside a CTAF, just in case.

 

 

[coljones]

http://flysafe.raa.asn.au/comms/procedure.html says

 

"If operating in the vicinity of any airfield within Class G airspace that does not have a designated CTAF, then the default multicom frequency 126.7 MHz should be used; the Flight Information Area [FIA] frequency should not be used.

 

 

 

When planning a flight into an airfield not listed in ERSA, it is advisable to check the frequency being used with the airfield owner/operator — there are unlisted airfields where a dedicated airfield frequency, other than the multicom 126.7 MHz , may still exist; see specific frequencies. This particularly applies to airfields supporting glider operations."

 

http://flysafe.raa.asn.au/comms/procedure.html#enroute_calls suggests, among other frequency selection strategies, using 126.7 below 3000 agl - presumably because unmapped strips may exist anywhere and choosing the default multicom frequency of 126.7 for these unmapped and strips without a published CTAF seems like a good idea - for all time

 

 

[frank marriott]

Col

 

As per post 6

 

 

[pmccarthy]

So there is a complete contradiction between p16 CAAP(1)2 and RAA fly safe . It would be good to clear that up.

 

 

[kaz3g]

The CAAP was written more recently than the Fly Safe notes and carries far more legal weight. Yes, there is a concerning uncertainty that needs to be clarified... Hang on, wasn't that what the CAAP was doing?

 

Kaz

 

 

[frank marriott]

Kaz

 

Look at AIP

 

 

[Yenn]

Surely you should be using 126.7 if you are near an airport or airstrip not in ERSA. Where I have trouble is at my local strip we use 126.7, but e are adjacent to YGLA which must use 118.8. If we use 118.8 we clog up the YGLA frequency and if we don't listen on it we get low flying aircraft not on 126.7. All anyone can do is what is most appropriate. I don't think center want to know what we are doing down under 5000', but we do need to listen on area frequency to be aware and also for emergency use. Plus it is interesting listening sometimes and reinforces the fact that it is not only low time pilots who stuff up radio procedures.