EPIRB's

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I noted on the news this morning that a fisherman in WA was rescued after 19hours at sea, and was found by using an EPIRB. What surprised me was that while the EPIRB apparently allowed the final home on signal for the helicopter the actual alert was raised by a neighbour.

 

So, my question is, If the EPIRB was activated by the fisherman why did it take 19hrs to find him?

 

The questions I have are based on what I think I know of EPIRB's There is the 121.5Mhz transmitter that is still used in the final home on signal, and there is the 406Mhz signal which is used to create the original alert.

 

Things that I can think of as a possibility:-

 

1) The media got the nitty-gritty wrong in the report

 

2) The EPIRB was an older style, now outlawed, that is 121.5Mhz capable only

 

3) The newer style EPIRB was faulty WRT 406Mhz component....

 

4) The boaty, for what ever reason didn't set of the EPIRB until the rescuers were very close

 

Would love to know

 

Andy

 

 

[Downunder]

I was listening to the local radio news today (for what it's worth) and they said 27 hrs in the water and he had set off 2 EPIRBS...

 

Like you Andy, the first think I thought of was "Why so long"?

 

 

[dazza 38]

I was listening to the local radio news today (for what it's worth) and they said 27 hrs in the water and he had set off 2 EPIRBS...Like you Andy, the first think I thought of was "Why so long"?

I would be packing sh*t if I was in that water for that long with great whites around eating peeps off the WA coast. Actually I would be scared sh*tless if I was in the water for 1 minute.

 

 

[Downunder]

More info here... http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/21430648/rescuers-too-late-to-save-fishermans-dog/

 

20 hrs in the water after 6 hrs fishing......a LONG day.....

 

From the article......

 

"It is understood the man, who was not wearing a lifejacket, set off flares and attempted to activate an EPIRB but his calls for assistance went unanswered."

 

"As the search started about 10.30am, the man activated a second, more modern 406 EPIRB and another flare."

 

 

[spacesailor]

Bill Belcher had two EPIRB's on a trans Tasman race, neither worked from Middleton Reef.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[JRCC Australia]

Hi, JRCC Australia here (Joint Rescue Coordination Centre). We are the guys that recieve the EPIRB alerts and coordinate the rescue. Ref the initial thread above 1, 2 and 4 are all partially correct.

 

This guy had two epirbs, an old 121.5Mhz beacon which he beleived he activated that night but it turned out he only pushed the "test" button (they are actually illegal under the communication act and should be disposed of properly).

 

When nobody arrived to help him the next day, he swam under the boat and retrieved the 406mhz beacon and activated it. He was rescued within about 1.5 hours of the activation. He probably would have been rescued half and hour earlier if he had a GPS equiped beacon as the first detection was via a GEO stationary sattelite which does not provide any position unless the beacon has a GPS chip. About 25 minutes later an orbiting satelite went overhead and gave us a position that was passed to the WA water police (who were already looking for him) and there search helicopter flew straight to him and rescued him.

 

The message is very clear:

 

Carry a 406Mhz beacon, GPS preferred.

 

Make sure it is registered with AMSA.

 

Know how to operate your beacon.

 

Let someone know where you are going (this applies to flying, boating , bushwalking, 4WDing etc.).

 

Cheers

 

 

[Ferris]

Hello everybody at JRCC. Let me be the first to congratulate whoever is behind the above post for thinking outside the box and finding a better way to scotch rumours and distribute correct information. Cheers Ferris.

 

 

[Louie]

Makes you wonder why non-GPS beacons are available. Some may say cost but when you're dealing with lives it's irrelevant.

 

The small extra cost could also be viewed as more user pays reflected in the less time spent finding people.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Also privacy as they (the government (Big Brother)) want all your and your companion's details, then have to change them the next outing with different people.

 

Perhaps I was given the wrong info when I tried to buy a 406,mhz epirb, was told NO sale without registration by shop assistant.

 

spacesailor

 

Bryan

 

 

[Louie]

Also privacy as they (the government (Big Brother)) want all your and your companion's details, then have to change them the next outing with different people.Perhaps I was given the wrong info when I tried to buy a 406,mhz epirb, was told NO sale without registration by shop assistant.

spacesailor

 

Bryan

Bryan you register once only online and provide your relevant personal details. I purchased mine online and you don't have to register before receiving the unit.

 

 

[Downunder]

Also privacy as they (the government (Big Brother)) want all your and your companion's details, then have to change them the next outing with different people.Perhaps I was given the wrong info when I tried to buy a 406,mhz epirb, was told NO sale without registration by shop assistant.

spacesailor

 

Bryan

You don't update it every flight and there is no need to name passengers.

Just basic stuff to help a search. Vehicle type, colour, number of seats, range, fuel capcity and any other info you want to add which you think maybe helpful to a search.

 

I also bought mine online so there was no compulsion to register it but if you set it off, there is absoulutely no info for the search people.

 

Not even the type of vehicle. I think registration was free too.

 

So look at it as getting value for your tax money.....

 

 

[spacesailor]

I should dig out my radio licence (marine) to check the forms,

 

Big Brother not only wanted ALL crew/ passenger info, but all criminal history ! of all person aboard my vessel, & to fax all documentation to Canberra.

 

I should still have the post office receipts for that lot,

 

spacesailor

 

I'm a bad boy, I didn't tell them (BB Canberra) I gave the boat away.

 

 

[Oscar]

I should dig out my radio licence (marine) to check the forms,Big Brother not only wanted ALL crew/ passenger info, but all criminal history ! of all person aboard my vessel, & to fax all documentation to Canberra.

I should still have the post office receipts for that lot,

 

spacesailor

 

I'm a bad boy, I didn't tell them (BB Canberra) I gave the boat away.

My Marine VHF licence is expired now, but from memory all that was required for a voyage was boat name, number of crew, start and destination and an ETA of arrival. Reported to VCP on leaving port, ETA updated as required / cancelled on entering port. EPIRB info for trip did require EPIRB rego number and vessel it was in being reported to AMSA by fax, from memory (this was 2003). Frankly, when you're a few miles off Gabo Island in the middle of a pitch-black, drizzling night with a 2-metre plus swell with a nasty cross-current chop to it up your stern, I for one am perfectly happy to know that someone knows roughly where you are and what boat is likely to have fired off the EPIRB should you need it.

 

 

[kgwilson]

I was just reading a letter to the editor in the February Sportpilot suggesting that RA-Aus pilots are wasting their time carrying such useless items such as EPIRBs, WACs & ERSA. I can't work out the logic other than the challenge to find globally one study that show a single life being saved in the past 20 years by carrying these devices. It states that they were useless ballast before the mobile phone & GPS & even more redundant now. Other than the fact that ERSA & WACs are not devices why would an EPIRB be redundant? Perhaps the author thinks that your GPS & mobile phone combination will be sufficient. Possibly if the items are both working & you are in a mobile coverage area when you need rescuing but I'd rather put my faith in a 406mhz GPS equipped EPIRB any day especially if forced to land in the middle of nowhere with no mobile coverage or inhabitants around.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I was just reading a letter to the editor in the February Sportpilot suggesting that RA-Aus pilots are wasting their time carrying such useless items such as EPIRBs, WACs & ERSA. I can't work out the logic other than the challenge to find globally one study that show a single life being saved in the past 20 years by carrying these devices. It states that they were useless ballast before the mobile phone & GPS & even more redundant now. Other than the fact that ERSA & WACs are not devices why would an EPIRB be redundant? Perhaps the author thinks that your GPS & mobile phone combination will be sufficient. Possibly if the items are both working & you are in a mobile coverage area when you need rescuing but I'd rather put my faith in a 406mhz GPS equipped EPIRB any day especially if forced to land in the middle of nowhere with no mobile coverage or inhabitants around.

I agree, I reckon anybody who did find themselves putting down in the middle of nowhere or ditching of the coast would be thanking themselves for having a 406 GPS EPIRB. Of course if they didn't have anything, they would probably be giving themselves a upper cut.

 

 

[Oscar]

Good grief! I haven't read that article, I'm afraid I tend to regard Sport Pilot as a bit of a comic rather than a source of useful information, but it sounds to me as if the author should (and probably will, if her/his local Volunteer bodies that get called out to find missing pilots, bushwalkers, etc. read about it) be taken out behind the shed and given a damn good kicking.

 

To even suggest that one can deduce anything from statistics of people who haven't died through not being found within a 'short' time is monumentally stupid. Short of having the EPIRB hooked up to a heart-rate monitor that sends out a message that 'I'm here, but I'm dead, so don't bust a gut trying to find me', the presumption is ALWAYS that search and rescue is necessary. Where do the majority of people who are routinely called out to SAR events come from? - the ranks of volunteers, who drop everything in their normal lives to get out there to help. Sometimes, they die.

 

The sort of person who writes that sort of article should be tagged for 'no attention' if they go missing. And they should be subject to a Court order for ALL costs - including an hourly rate for recompense of volunteers who give up their time to help in the search. As a member of the NSW RFS, we had quite a number of property owners who refused to do hazard reduction work on their properties; after trying all other sorts of reasoned explanation of why they needed to, we ended up posting a notice to every property in our area of responsibility that IF their property was under threat of fire AND they'd not undertaken reasonable measures to ensure OUR safety to try to protect their property, we wouldn't do it. That is our policy, and we stick to it. We have kids, loved ones etc. that depend on us; because some bastard isn't prepared to help her/himself, we are not prepared to risk our lives and give our personal time for their problem.

 

Same with people who don't carry EPIRBS. Anybody who suggests a mobile phone and a GPS is adequate lives in the middle of a bloody city; out in the real country, mobile phones do NOT work everywhere, and a GPS is only useful to you to know where you are if you can't report that to other people. A Satphone, perhaps... just do the calculation on the cost of a Satphone and subscription vs. an EPIRB...

 

 

[Yenn]

I carry a PLB, not an EPIRB. That suffices for both a GA plane and an RAAus one. I am supposed to tell the search people what I am doing, ie. which plane I am flying or if I am bushwalking. Sadly I am too lazy so if I set it off they will not know which plane or if I am on foot.

 

I hope I never need it but it is nice to know that help is available and even better from the searchers point of view it reduces the area to search.

 

 

[Downunder]

We've got that problem in the west too. With people not clearing or looking after their property.

 

After some devastating fires in the last few years, a senior member of the fire brigade came out wanting signs put infront of peoples property stating "Do not assist" or something along those lines. Just the embarrasment would have probably got some people active?

 

 

[SDQDI]

Excuse my ignorance but what is the difference between an plb and a epirb? I always thought they were the same thing.

 

I think they are a good idea and well worth the investment.

 

 

[dazza 38]

We've got that problem in the west too. With people not clearing or looking after their property.After some devastating fires in the last few years, a senior member of the fire brigade came out wanting signs put infront of peoples property stating "Do not assist" or something along those lines. Just the embarrasment would have probably got some people active?

Yup, and it isn't a problem for the rural's to drive pass a property and look at the assets and the fuel load surrounding those assets and say, hmmm not defendable and move on the next property that is defendable.

 

 

[Downunder]

I carry a PLB, not an EPIRB. That suffices for both a GA plane and an RAAus one. I am supposed to tell the search people what I am doing, ie. which plane I am flying or if I am bushwalking. Sadly I am too lazy so if I set it off they will not know which plane or if I am on foot.I hope I never need it but it is nice to know that help is available and even better from the searchers point of view it reduces the area to search.

Why not add some text to your registration that you sometimes carry it bushwalking and to first check your aircrafts location (hangar)?

 

 

[Oscar]

Yup, and it isn't a problem for the rural's to drive pass a property and look at the assets and the fuel load surrounding those assets and say, hmmm not defendable and move on the next property that is defendable.

Not just the observable fuel load: access tracks usable by a Cat 9 / 7/ 1/ tanker; unmarked: propane tanks, oxy-acetelyne gear, petrol / diesel tanks, noxious chemical storage in sheds... We are strictly forbidden to access any vehicle that MAY have unexploded airbags via a window, and must use extreme caution for any hybrid vehicle. All due to accidents involving decent people trying to help.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Bill Belcher had two EPIRB's on a trans Tasman race, neither worked from Middleton Reef.spacesailor

What brand? Reliability is everything!

 

 

[spacesailor]

Yes, I've lumped all the formality's together including customs / immigration, Pages and Pages of forms.

 

As for Bill Belchers equipment, All specified by the race organisers.

 

I had a Canadian and a British couple aboard for a cruise to Fiji, a Kiwi dropped out as he'd been busted for smoking pot while driving, after I showed him the forms from customs.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Yenn]

When you register the PLB they also get a couple of phone numbers to ring first up to see if you are really using the planes or walking or if it could be a false alarm.