Airfield closed by weather for six weeks

[Old Koreelah]

... I will firmly remain a sceptic. NOT "in denial" , that phrase has been hijacked by the Green lobby and other various self interested nutters in order to stifle any sensible discussion on what is a remarkably complex subject. ...

Thanks for a polite reply, Phil. It's shows a bit more courtesy than is common on this forum.

 

As a supporter of green campaigners, I'm a bit concerned you might include me as one of those "self interested nutters". What are these "self interests" and how do they compare with the naked profit motive and often devious tactics of the powerful group denying climate change?

 

If global warming has stalled for the last decade or so that is good news, but glaciers still recede and ice caps still melt. Interesting times.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Maybe God is just punishing the English for losing the Ashes? Everyone knows Jesus is crazy about cricket.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's the Rain of Betty Windsor. Nev

 

 

[coljones]

I usually start off "well everyone knows...."

 

But I was tooling around the internet and found this

 

"If he’d had the time he could have made other valid points, such as: “They know nothing about carbon emissions. Only last November they reckoned England would win The Ashes so why should we take any notice of them?”

 

Then Sir Brian Hoskins, a climate change scientist, replied that in recent years the seas have warmed by 0.8 per cent, and that the West Antarctic ice sheet has receded to an unprecedented level, and along with other changes that this must have had an effect on the weather. To which Nigel (Nigella's father) replied: “That’s extreme speculation. There’s been no global warming for 15 years and that’s a FACT.”

 

This is an innovative approach to science – saying that precise statistics from a knighted scientist are speculation – but you can tell a true fact because it’s said by someone who says “and that’s a FACT”. These students who revise for weeks before physics exams, so they can calculate electric currents, are wasting their time. They just need to write “Electricity is made up of tiny flames that live in a plug socket and that’s a FACT.”

 

It’s a method of argument often perfected by disgruntled men in the corner of Wetherspoon’s pubs. As it appears to be in vogue, this could be the new style of debate on news programmes. John Humphrys will say that “a new 246-page report suggests an independent Scotland would be viable as an economy. With us to discuss the matter is Ted from the Moon Under Water in Stechford. Ted, what do you make of this?” And he’ll say, “It’s all speculation that is, they’re planning to become part of China and put us all in labour camps and that’s a FACT.” "

 

Nigel Lawson is a right wing politician not a scientist.

 

 

[Ultralights]

i just want to know, at what point in history did the earths climate stop changing, and it ALL became man made?

 

 

[pmccarthy]

It cooled down a bit today, smoke still too dense for flying but we have been promised a cool change next week that will bring snow to the mountains in Victoria. They say a meteorologist is a bloke who can look at a girl in a pub and tell whether.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

i just want to know, at what point in history did the earths climate stop changing, and it ALL became man made?

industrial revolution

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Each ice age has been a major setback to plant and animal life. We are due for the next ice age. Maybe Mother Earth has come up with a strategy to minimise the ice age effects. We are just tools in the grand plan. Well, I'm not a tool... But the rest of you may be.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I have my own crack pot theory. Every day we pump 90 million barrels of oil out of the ground every day, often replacing that oil with fresh water as well as salt water but mostly fresh water. What happens if that oil escapes into our aquifers?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I can see the day when you will pay more for a litre of bottled water than petrol

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I agree FT, it will happen in about 1990.

 

 

[facthunter]

The greenhouse effect is well understood. We have gone from 280ppm to over 400ppm. If there was no greenhouse gases we would enter an ice age. Conversely, more greenhouse gases more trapped heat.

 

We have been digging up and burning locked away carbon and deforesting land and destroying sea grass and acidifying the oceans where most of the extra CO2 has been absorbed. The carbon cycle absorbs CO2 and restores some of the oxygen but we are destroying trees all the time and more arid areas will occur. No glaciers are growing . They are all shrinking Permafros areas are melting and giving off record breaking amounts of methane which is capable of being mapped and has been. WE will have tourist packed ships going from Vancouver to Spain across the North pole soon. Those of you who will want to find the facts will. There has been a massive attempt to silence and discredit science. That should be a warning to every thinking person. The big money is with the centralised power distribution companies Coal Gas and oil. The Murdoch empire has taken a climate denying stand . Scientists don't lie to keep jobs generally as their total standing as a scientist is lost.( Like Black trackers reputations. ) Some very rich people will confuse issues as long as they can to continue to make squillions Of that you can be sure. Nev

 

 

[DrZoos]

My god there is some misinformation about fracturing and gas / oil. I have been investing heavily in the oil and gas industry for over 20 years and it amazes me the crap people think about it. There are about 50 plus different types of fracturing if not more and its done in about 2000+ types of geology. Some near water sources some nowhere near it. They rarely replace oil with water and hardly ever with sea water. They generally use highly pressurized gas and oil and the water is merely used to deliver the sand or proponent that keeps the formation separated after the proponent is delivered.... The greenies have literally brain washed the entire misinformed world into thinking its all done the same and all bad. Much of it is 100 times better for the environment then traditional oil wells. Sure like everything some is bad. But if you want to drive cars and fly planes then you had better not buy into the mass BS brigade on oil and gas.

 

The real issue for Aussies is simply protection of water sources and keeping gas wells clear of existing dwellings. And most fracturing techniques do everything they possibly can to avoid like the plague water tables which basically render and entire multi Billion dollar resource useless. Farmers ought to be concerned about wells on property with fumes, but they happily signed contracts to buy land that their solicitors clearly explained may contain minerals and resources just like any of us that own property have had explained.

 

Dont believe and reprocess the BS. Do some reading on both sides then form an opinion. Clean energy requires gas and the future is in gas which requires drilling to get.

 

I own both oil and gas companies and i can promise you from years and years of research that gas and fracturing is the clean future when done properly. It burns clean and it comes to the surface without much energy use. Fracturing when done properly is very very safe and very environmentally friendly. The proponent used to fracture costs a LOT of money and it is used very very sparingly. There is absolutely no point pumping expensive proponent into earth that doesnt contain masses of gas. So this BS that they fracture water tables etc are one off isolated cases in among many tens of thousands of wells .

 

If you look up anything on the internet you will find one off cases to represent any story you want to put forward. But the bulk of evidence has no correlation to the BS brigade.

 

Im an informed greenie at heart and there is a massive difference between what some put forward and reality. The green news that makes headlines is generally very extreme and wrong, because thats how you grab headlines. Moderation and balance does nothing for headlines

 

 

[fly_tornado]

so the oil is replaced with nothing? won't those voids fill with ground water?

 

 

[DrZoos]

What makes you think water goes anywhere near those areas. You generally have many many many layers of vastly different materials, much of it totally water inpenatrable and many thousands of feet before you get to the very old layers that contain fossil fuels. And water is the absolute enemy of fossil fuel recovery. Any water in the layers of most fossil fuels would never make it to the surface except in a catastrophic volcanic eruption, in which case the oil and gas would also come to the surface. And i dont know of any farmers where the economics of water extraction would allow them to drill any where near the depth of fossil fuels. Its complete misinformation from green extremists.

 

Generally speaking anywhere near a water table is completely unfeasible and vastly unlikely. Any water penetration ruins the ability to recover and clearly causes massive environmental concerns, plus generally millions in compensation and law suits . Contaminated water also cost more to clean up then any volume of oil or gas is worth. So its an absolute no brainier. I have invested in many companies that have abondoned fantastic resources because its simply to risky for the environment and thus their pocket if lawsuits arise. They just dotn do it and they havent for twenty plus years. It doesnt make economic sense to go near anything that might detract from profit. And environmental damage to water is like economic cryptonite to oil and gas companies. There are isolated cases where tiny tiny explorers are using water to get the last of oil out of abandoned holes. But its like blaming half the worlds population for the actions of 5 people.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Nev just as you imply the green extremists have peddled absolute BS about global warming over the past 17 years, they have also done the same about fracturing and gas. And you ought to use that to inspire you to do the research and find out the facts. The truth is generally far from what the extremists and headlines would have us believe and generally lies somewhere in the middle.

 

 

[coljones]

Nev just as you imply the green extremists have peddled absolute BS about global warming over the past 17 years, they have also done the same about fracturing and gas. And you ought to use that to inspire you to do the research and find out the facts. The truth is generally far from what the extremists and headlines would have us believe and generally lies somewhere in the middle.

I am confused about Alan Jones position.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Zoos I was talking about oil feilds that have been exhausted. I can't see how you can keep water out of these vast underground voids. The only reason I have this fear is because of the amount of environmental damage the major oil companies are creating

 

 

[facthunter]

IN many cases they certainly are, and it is documented, There are apparently few rivers on the NE coast of the USA that it is safe to get water from as of now. The east cost of TASSIE has a lot of cyanide from GOLD extraction in its rivers too. This is a common problem. The CRA mine in the place off PNG east coast Rabaul? will need over 8 years of cleaning up to get it running again IF ever.

 

OK Tedi has contaminated all the Fly River Delta with heavy metals. Mining will have to be done more carefully. They don't have the right to SPOIL things and just leave it like that and move on pocketing the easy money. Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

My god there is some misinformation about fracturing and gas / oil. I have been investing heavily in the oil and gas industry for over 20 years and it amazes me the crap people think about it. There are about 50 plus different types of fracturing if not more and its done in about 2000+ types of geology. Some near water sources some nowhere near it. They rarely replace oil with water and hardly ever with sea water. They generally use highly pressurized gas and oil and the water is merely used to deliver the sand or proponent that keeps the formation separated after the proponent is delivered.... The greenies have literally brain washed the entire misinformed world into thinking its all done the same and all bad. Much of it is 100 times better for the environment then traditional oil wells. Sure like everything some is bad. But if you want to drive cars and fly planes then you had better not buy into the mass BS brigade on oil and gas.The real issue for Aussies is simply protection of water sources and keeping gas wells clear of existing dwellings. And most fracturing techniques do everything they possibly can to avoid like the plague water tables which basically render and entire multi Billion dollar resource useless. Farmers ought to be concerned about wells on property with fumes, but they happily signed contracts to buy land that their solicitors clearly explained may contain minerals and resources just like any of us that own property have had explained.

Dont believe and reprocess the BS. Do some reading on both sides then form an opinion. Clean energy requires gas and the future is in gas which requires drilling to get.

 

I own both oil and gas companies and i can promise you from years and years of research that gas and fracturing is the clean future when done properly. It burns clean and it comes to the surface without much energy use. Fracturing when done properly is very very safe and very environmentally friendly. The proponent used to fracture costs a LOT of money and it is used very very sparingly. There is absolutely no point pumping expensive proponent into earth that doesnt contain masses of gas. So this BS that they fracture water tables etc are one off isolated cases in among many tens of thousands of wells .

 

If you look up anything on the internet you will find one off cases to represent any story you want to put forward. But the bulk of evidence has no correlation to the BS brigade.

 

Im an informed greenie at heart and there is a massive difference between what some put forward and reality. The green news that makes headlines is generally very extreme and wrong, because thats how you grab headlines. Moderation and balance does nothing for headlines

I agree , i work for Origin energy in the CSG industry and the crap i hear from the misinformed public makes me puke .

 

 

[fly_tornado]

dazza, If your employers told you how damaging CSG industry is for the environment would you even care? The oil companies know only to well to hire people who do what they are told without question.

 

 

[dazza 38]

dazza, If your employers told you how damaging CSG industry is for the environment would you even care? The oil companies know only to well to hire people who do what they are told without question.

Believe me, we are audited to the max by government. We have environmental scientist work for us and they are extremely anal . They know the law back to front . Shit if we even spill. 200 mil of oil , it is a reportable incident. We do take what we do very seriously.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Believe me, we are audited to the max by government. We have environmental scientist work for us and they are extremely anal . They know the law back to front . **** if we even spill. 200 mil of oil , it is a reportable incident. We do take what we do very seriously.

Thats been my experience as an investor. The bean counters and lawyers/ enviro teams rule the roost. They know any accident will cost them MASSIVELY both financially and even more so politically. So absolutely everything is done 100 times what the public is lead to believe to make sure enviro safety is adhered to. The problem is Dazza , the extreme side of the greens have peddled this sh## for years and the industry has not publicized any counter argument. As a result we now have a completely ill informed and unbalanced public view. And the mistakes and messes of decades ago are still being photographed and used against the industry of today. Which is as realistic as blaming the current PM for the second world war.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

How much damage can 200ml of oil do to the environment, that's more about keeping the farmers happy. My problem with all the underground drilling is the pollution of the ground water. Once that toxic sludge, oil and gas starts mixing in with the water its only a matter of time before it ends up in the food chain. And there is no way to get the pollution out of the water.

 

 

[facthunter]

What makes anybody think you can keep putting CO2 into the atmosphere and it won't matter? There is not much atmosphere. At FL180 about 3 miles something like half the air molecules are below you. (This doesn't mean the air stops at another 3 miles or so as we all know it's getting thinner as it goes higher.

 

The oceans have been absorbing the majority of the CO2 but that produces acids that destroy crustaceans krill shells of many creatures and coral etc The CO2 figures are not challenged. Greenhouse gas effect is not a new invention. Volcano eruptions can cause the opposite effect as is also known. They won't cancel each other out though in the current circumstances

 

Earths atmosphere is not an endless quantity that you can disregard. Compared to the size of the planet it is just a thin filament enabling life to exist here.

 

Dr Zoos you talk of greenie propaganda. What about the deliberate outright lies from the super well off OIL GAS and COAL vested interests who are much better funded than any green group. It doesn't improve the situation for any body to lie but they do. I get my info from reliable sources that can be found but with great difficulty in the ordinary way in the MSM or such. The Australian By Murdoch will never run facts on global warming. It takes a denier stance.

 

The world bank and many responsible financial/investment entities are warning of the danger of investing in non renewable energy. Perhaps you should read their advice .

 

If you have invested in gas that is your choice It is a short term thing and it won't be that long before good soil and ordinary water will be so scarce and in demand that we will wake up to ourselves and treat the planet as we MUST. It's the only place for us to live on, so why trash it. Tell me what a great job of looking after the Hunter Valley is being done. The powerful mining interests get their way eventually. Money speaks . Environment and people don't count where lots of money count. Look at the Niger Delta. Plenty of other examples. Nev