Airfield closed by weather for six weeks

[DrZoos]

Fact 1 . We need energy to produce everything we need to survive except air. We even rely on it for water.

 

Fact 2. If we decided to spend every new energy dollar on non fossil fuel energy, more then half the worlds population would perish within a few years and the world as we know it would seek to exist. Renewable is the only bright future. But its very very expensive and very very very slow to develop. It is currently only capable of providing a fraction of our energy needs, even if its the fastest growing energy sector by many times the others.

 

Fact 3. Gas is by a light year the cleanest way forward. Coal seem gas, shale gas and LNG are far cleaner to burn then oil and coal. They require significantly less energy to produce and bring to market and they are far far far safer and better for the environment. Yes the extraction methods must be strictly regulated as must they be if digging the energy out of the ground. But stopping it based on reckless and deliberate misinformation is absolute environmental vandalism far beyond anything the energy companies are being acused of.

 

The real fact is this. We simply cant sustain life without fossil fuels,because our world has been raised on it for so long. Almost every ship, car truck, boat, factory and home uses it and the time and money to change it will be immense. To get off fossil fuels is even the goal of energy companies because they can see a brighter future and higher profits in renewables. But its going to take 30-50 years to get us off in any meaningful quantity. And the downfall of Nuclear in the fallout from Fukishima has made countries far more reliant on coal and oil or gas in the next 30 years.

 

In the mean time the cleanest option we have is to convert a lot of coal and oil powered vehicles, power stations, homes and factories to gas. Oil and physical coal extraction from the ground are the real enemy here, not gas. Japan shut down its last of 50 reactors recently and they are now dependent on oil gas or coal. So take your pick dirty burning and energy intensive coal or clean energy efficient gas.

 

Gas also only produces around 55% of the CO2 as coal or 70% of the CO2 oil burning produces.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Drzoos you really should watch gasland, no one is disputing the need for energy but we need to make sure that the oil and gas companies do as little long term damage as possible. The real problem with CSG is the world is now flooded with it. Arrow energy just cancelled their $10B project at Gladstone because of falling price of gas. Meanwhile, in the US the yanks are having an each way bet with solar, just launched the largest thermal solar plant whilst Australia is still in the back pocket of the resources industry.

 

 

[facthunter]

The US jumped the rest with their quick response with their gas. While that 'oversupply" is true, australia will have to pay world prices for CSG very shortly which will result in the local prices being quite a lot higher than current prices are. Russia has heaps of the stuff.

 

"Twiggy Forrest is trying to get the Afghans to turn 2 to 3 tonnes of brown coal into one barrel of oil. How's that for the environment. There is lots of brown coal in VIC. There has been a process available for 20 years to convert it to diesel but it is about 3 times as polluting as black coal (anthracite).

 

The smart money is on renewables. Cameron in the UK is offering 17 cents AU per KWH feed in price for Nuclear. Have they gone mad? renewables get cheaper all the time. In the last week I obtained data from an Australian university showing that already wind and solar can get equal with coal requiring only a small top up with gas but that too will not be needed soon.

 

Hunt is using plant write down costs in his current electricity costs projections and blaming accelerated plant and infrastructure loss of value on the carbon price. The stuff is worth less because it is NOT the way of the future and they know it. Probably centralised power and high distribution costs may be a thing of the past. The ACTUAL cost of the electricity at the power station, is just over 10% of the price charged to the user at the moment. Nev

 

 

[DrZoos]

Totally agree Ft. We do need to make sure they minimize damage and that is happening in general. There is room for improvement in poorer nations but its rapidly changing and certainly in Australia the regulations are fantastic and could not be any tighter.

 

Arrow cancelled not because of a short term drop in gas prices. A project like that is done on long term prices which are set to at least double and more likely tripple. They cancelled because of the NSW govt decision on CSG in the Sydney basin. It scared the bejesus out of all SG players and they are just not willing to invest $1 -$2 Billion and then see a decision destroy their company. Its a smart decision by Arrow and unfortunately the first of many . The problem is now instead of that coal being efficiently used to providee clean burning gas, it will get put aside, sold off and dug out of the ground inefficiently then transported to China and burned with twice the CO2 output. How on earth is that better for the environment and this is where the bad half of the Greenies are doing untold damage. If it stopped the project in its entirety then it would be better for our local environment, but it wont. That energy will get used, but now it will get used in a much worse way for the environment.

 

 

[dazza 38]

At the gas plant that i work at, we supply the Darling Downs powerstation as well as sell gas to the general Australian market , so if peeps want electricity at their homes in parts of SE Qld, They need our gas

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Zoos was talking about the Gladstone project which was shelved due to the drop in gas prices. The problem for Australia is that gas is easy to produce as it doesn't need to infrastructure that coal needs, so shell are going to exploit 3rd countries before they invest here.

 

 

[Yenn]

It has already started. Swanbank power station, running on gas is going to be closed because the price is too high.

 

Remember a few years ago Jo electrified the Qld North Coast line to Rocky. Reason electricity was the way to go, cleaner and cheaper. There is only one train on that line using electricity, the rest are diesel.

 

Our governments are not interested in doing what is right for Australia, only what gives them a cash flow. So the country is going broke while the miners are stinking rich.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I hope it dries out in time for my holiday in May?

Pushing yer luck a bit Geoff,. . . . . . but I'll have a word with the Met office and see if we can calm it down a bit in May for when you get over here. . . . . .(My cousin Jane works there so I have some influence. . . . .! )

 

 

[SDQDI]

What makes you think water goes anywhere near those areas. You generally have many many many layers of vastly different materials, much of it totally water inpenatrable and many thousands of feet before you get to the very old layers that contain fossil fuels. And water is the absolute enemy of fossil fuel recovery. Any water in the layers of most fossil fuels would never make it to the surface except in a catastrophic volcanic eruption, in which case the oil and gas would also come to the surface. And i dont know of any farmers where the economics of water extraction would allow them to drill any where near the depth of fossil fuels. Its complete misinformation from green extremists.

Many thousands of feet. Hmm I do notice you said generally so i take that into account but I know where I am (Liverpool plains) the coal is a lot shallower than that and I know farmers who have drilled a bore only 200 feet and hit coal, maybe we are the exception or maybe you were more referring to csg of which I know little about.

 

I'm a farmer so I also have a biased opinion of it all but ill put my ten cents worth in too.

 

I would like to describe myself as someone who believes in God and IMHO I think that if the climate is changing for the better or worse than that is because God is allowing it, now that will put me at odds with quiet a few but that's ok:sad: having said that I do really like the idea of renewable energy as it is good for the environment (who really wants to deliberately hurt the environment) and its a win win.

 

It seems to me that there is way to much disinformation on all sides to get an accurate picture of anything:lightning:

 

Ps what do you think of illegal immigrants:stirrer: ( please ignore that last but seems to have the potential to be a similar thread)

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I believed in the tooth fairy once upon a time, bitterly disappointed that didn't work out how I wanted. Do I blame Jesus and the English XI? yes and no, sort of, is it misinformation or superstition? maybe.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Zoos was talking about the Gladstone project which was shelved due to the drop in gas prices. The problem for Australia is that gas is easy to produce as it doesn't need to infrastructure that coal needs, so shell are going to exploit 3rd countries before they invest here.

Yeah I know he was talking about the gas lines to Gladstone. And that was Arrow which is a little player. Our Pipe line which is Origins and Santos and QGC's pipe line are all the way to Gladstone and are in the process of being connected. What I am saying is that we at Origin have been actually selling our gas for the last four years to power a power station(Gas Turbines) and sell gas into our own grid for domestic consumption. We produce between 90 and 115 Terajoules a day. Our Gas plants (QGC, Santos, Origin) which are being built now are to produce gas for the Gladstone Trains, where it is turned into Liquid gas so it can be transported effectively by ships .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Thanks for a polite reply, Phil. It's shows a bit more courtesy than is common on this forum.As a supporter of green campaigners, I'm a bit concerned you might include me as one of those "self interested nutters". What are these "self interests" and how do they compare with the naked profit motive and often devious tactics of the powerful group denying climate change?

If global warming has stalled for the last decade or so that is good news, but glaciers still recede and ice caps still melt. Interesting times.

Hi OK. . . . .

 

I was really amused when watching TV a couple of months age, with a story about an bunch of British "Greenies" who had had chartered a ship with much media hype at the time,. . . to sail close to the North Pole to "PROVE" how the polar ice sheet was retreating. . . .Yeah,. . .right. . . . well before they expected to encounter any problems, . . .they got stuck in the pack ice, WHICH according to their theories, should not have been there.. . . . . they then called for rescue, and a Russian ice-breaker was despatched to pull the silly buggers out, but,. . .guess what ?. . .the Russians got stuck as well as the ice was stronger and more solidly packed than it had been in recent years ( Russians said that ) now,. . .guess WHO had to come and evacuate the whole sorry bunch ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

An Australian research vessel with ice-breaking ability came on the scene and rescued everybody,. . . I'm sure you MUST have seen this story on the media

 

I laughed my socks off, and as a result, my feet are still cold. . . . . .

 

So if any of you are really CONVINCED by media Bullcrap and slanted reporting that the Man-Made climate change ( Mainly designed to pull in "Green" revenue from bullcrap extra taxes to finance bloody useless wind turbines which are totally rubbish and can't operate when it is too windy, nad can't operate when it's not windy, and only make any money for the land owners [Rent] and the overseas companies who manufacture the damn things. . . ) thing is seriously true, then that's fine, but until you show me some actual sensible E V I D E N C E . . . .And it had better be good,. . . . .then I'm going to retain a slight amount of skepticism, which I'm sure ( as a very reasonable bunch of blokettes and blokes. . .) you won't mind. . .

 

I must add that if you DO. . . .offer some good oil on this subject, especially something that I have not read about already.. .. I will listen attentively and not pursue a dogmatic agenda. . . . . . ( some dogs make me sneeze anyway )

 

Until then please forgive me, but since a day's blast of volcanic activity from Pinatubo, or Eyafyallajokuul, or that one which went bang yesterday in Java ( name I can't spell ) puts E V E R Y single thing humanity has done, in green taxes (!) and curbing the use of plastic bags at the supermarket, and asking your cow not to fart so much. . . to reduce what is laughingly known as "Man -made climate change" ever since this ridiculous concept was either latched onto , or adapted by some idiot politicician wipes out all their efforts at a stroke. . . . .a friend of mine lives in Hawaii,. . . .and their local volcano Kilawaou ( dunno how it's spelt. . .) spews out gas and dust all day ,. . . .every day. . . . it's about time these damned volcano things were made illegal by international treaty. . . . before they do some REAL damage to our fragile climate. . . . ?

 

Don'tyer just Lurve nature. . . .?

 

Phil

 

 

[dazza 38]

When CSG is finished in about 25 years time, the Well Lease's are re habituated, the well head and separator etc are all removed and the drill hole concreted in and dirt covered over it. There will nothing left to show that there was a CSG well there in the first place apart from access roads. That is a better out come than open cut mining which is left there for ever. Also peep who complain about getting head aches etc are full of it. We work in and around well leases all day everyday at work and none of us ever get head aches etc. It is 98 % Methane gas. While I am having a rant lol. There is miss information about fracking. Fracking only occurs when the well is first drilled or if the well is getting worked over by a drill rig. It is used to fracture the coal seam. It is only used on approx. 10 % of wells. Not every well that some people seem to think. Our wells south of Chinchilla on the Walloon Cold seem had NEVER been fracked. No need for it as the coal seam is loose. I don't know about what the other companies have done though.

 

Apart from nuclear power, which we will probably see in Australia, Gas is the next best thing until technology makes other ways more viable. (Yes I have solar panels on my Roof ).

 

 

[facthunter]

Hope GOD does a better job of looking after the earth than the general management of things on the globe so far. Many devoted theists lose their faith when they see outrageous outcomes and inhumane acts. Both sides of most conflicts pray to THEIR god for assistance to kill the enemy. Not every god botherer is a nice person. If they all go to heaven then it won't be all nice so maybe it won't be heaven. I'm worried about the seven Virgins. Maybe they aren't the pretty ones . Anyhow I can't believe they are there just to satisfy someone's lust. I read somewhere that virgins are people too. .Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

Phil I doubt much what I say or produce will change your views because I can tell how receptive you are to a contrary opinion. You rubbish anyone of a different opinion. and lump them all in one category of fools. It's not the way to do things in my view. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Hi OK. . . . .I was really amused when watching TV a couple of months age, with a story about an bunch of British "Greenies" who had had chartered a ship with much media hype at the time,. . . to sail close to the North Pole to "PROVE" how the polar ice sheet was retreating. . . .Yeah,. . .right. . . . well before they expected to encounter any problems, . . .they got stuck in the pack ice, WHICH according to their theories, should not have been there.. . . . . they then called for rescue, and a Russian ice-breaker was despatched to pull the silly buggers out, but,. . .guess what ?. . .the Russians got stuck as well as the ice was stronger and more solidly packed than it had been in recent years ( Russians said that ) now,. . .guess WHO had to come and evacuate the whole sorry bunch ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

An Australian research vessel with ice-breaking ability came on the scene and rescued everybody,. . . I'm sure you MUST have seen this story on the media

 

I laughed my socks off, and as a result, my feet are still cold. . . . . .

 

So if any of you are really CONVINCED by media Bullcrap and slanted reporting that the Man-Made climate change ( Mainly designed to pull in "Green" revenue from bullcrap extra taxes to finance bloody useless wind turbines which are totally rubbish and can't operate when it is too windy, nad can't operate when it's not windy, and only make any money for the land owners [Rent] and the overseas companies who manufacture the damn things. . . ) thing is seriously true, then that's fine, but until you show me some actual sensible E V I D E N C E . . . .And it had better be good,. . . . .then I'm going to retain a slight amount of skepticism, which I'm sure ( as a very reasonable bunch of blokettes and blokes. . .) you won't mind. . .

 

I must add that if you DO. . . .offer some good oil on this subject, especially something that I have not read about already.. .. I will listen attentively and not pursue a dogmatic agenda. . . . . . ( some dogs make me sneeze anyway )

 

Until then please forgive me, but since a day's blast of volcanic activity from Pinatubo, or Eyafyallajokuul, or that one which went bang yesterday in Java ( name I can't spell ) puts E V E R Y single thing humanity has done, in green taxes (!) and curbing the use of plastic bags at the supermarket, and asking your cow not to fart so much. . . to reduce what is laughingly known as "Man -made climate change" ever since this ridiculous concept was either latched onto , or adapted by some idiot politicician wipes out all their efforts at a stroke. . . . .a friend of mine lives in Hawaii,. . . .and their local volcano Kilawaou ( dunno how it's spelt. . .) spews out gas and dust all day ,. . . .every day. . . . it's about time these damned volcano things were made illegal by international treaty. . . . before they do some REAL damage to our fragile climate. . . . ?

 

Don'tyer just Lurve nature. . . .?

 

Phil

Your info is 10,000km out of wack, Phil.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-02/rescue-helicopter-arrives-at-stranded-antarctic-ship/5182632

 

You are clutching at straws if you think a few seasonal fluctuations disprove climate change.

 

I agree it's galling to see our taxes wasted. I submit that, despite their limitations, wind turbines will prove to be far more efficient use of our taxes than many government stuff-ups.

 

I scratch my head to understand the underlying hostility to efforts to limit our damage to the earth. Every anti-pollution initiative has been resisted. I have met people who can't grasp the possibilty that our puny species could actually change the climate. It has happened before. The first species guilty of causing climate change was microscopic, but over a long period they converted most atmospheric CO2 to oxygen. Now we are undoing their good work; in a blink of the eye in geological time, we are burning up carbon which took millions of years to accumulate. And still people refuse to believe it could have any effect!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Resource companies pay the right wing parties to do nothing about pollution, part of the political process is to discredit the opposition. One of the hardest thing to do politically, is to get large groups of people to vote against their own interests but it has been done successfully in English speaking countries for the last 30 years. we are living in a golden era of propaganda.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

When CSG is finished in about 25 years time, the Well Lease's are re habituated, the well head and separator etc are all removed and the drill hole concreted in and dirt covered over it. There will nothing left to show that there was a CSG well there in the first place apart from access roads. That is a better out come than open cut mining which is left there for ever. Also peep who complain about getting head aches etc are full of it. We work in and around well leases all day everyday at work and none of us ever get head aches etc. It is 98 % Methane gas. While I am having a rant lol. There is miss information about fracking. Fracking only occurs when the well is first drilled or if the well is getting worked over by a drill rig. It is used to fracture the coal seam. It is only used on approx. 10 % of wells. Not every well that some people seem to think. Our wells south of Chinchilla on the Walloon Cold seem had NEVER been fracked. No need for it as the coal seam is loose. I don't know about what the other companies have done though.Apart from nuclear power, which we will probably see in Australia, Gas is the next best thing until technology makes other ways more viable. (Yes I have solar panels on my Roof ).

Pretty sure you will find that the fracking process is ongoing, once your wells flow rate slows, a quick frack will boost the flow. Have you seen Gasland?

 

Just for a laugh, start taking photos of the chemical drums around the wells in an obvious fashion and see if they sack you.

 

Its always a sure sign that they are up to no good. But seriously how can you rehabilitate a well that's several hundred metres below ground level? Using concrete to stop a gas flow is like fixing a leaky balloon with sticky tape

 

 

[facthunter]

The pack ice is formed from water that has just melted that was less salty and therefore freezes quicker and at a higher temp catching two ships out. The denser salt water is going to the bottom, and tending to sit there.. This has problems for important ocean circulation. If the Humbolt current slows or stops Europe will be in serious trouble as ambient temps will drop a significant amount. For it's latitude Europe is much warmer, than it would otherwise be, because of the equatorial water flowing as it does.

 

Some say Man is essentially egoist to think what man does can effect the climate. When you consider the amount of CO2 from carbon based fuels we burn each day why wouldn't it change things? We are hooked on energy. Coal is being dug up everywhere and oil keeps bubbling out of the ground like there is NO TOMORROW. You can't see anything in Beijing. Carbon dioxide levels have been accurately measured for years and they have gone from 280 ppm to over 400 ppm. In a relatively short time.

 

Don't think about it and it will go away. The armageddon is coming, God will look after it. It's those nasty lying scientists all telling us porkies. I read it in the paper that it's not happening. Anyhow I can't do much and I love my speedboat. I'll be dead anyhow and it won't affect me. I've heard most of it. I used to teach Science and have been following what is happening for years, but I'm just a dickhead. who wouldn't have a clue. Science is being vilified because it is giving out facts those who are profiting, don't want known. Nev

 

 

[pmccarthy]

As a child I didn't expect to reach 21 because of the expected nuclear war, then the Club of Rome said we would have global starvation by about 1995. I'm a Geoscientist which means I know a bit about the earth ( but really mainly about the economic minerals) and I'm just not persuaded that this round of scary stuff will wipe me out either. I'm pretty sure that man is affecting climate a little, but I reckon we are just as likely to go into an ice age as to warm up. That is really a reflection of the poor state of our knowledge. I think geologists have a better understanding than the self-appointed climate scientists ( in fact there is no such discipline in science). And to those hanging it on the filthy rich miners, who do you have in mind? Most mining companies are public companies, so we can all buy their shares if we think that makes you filthy rich. It hasn't worked for me yet, but I live in hope.

 

 

[kgwilson]

We have released carbon into the atmosphere in the past 200 years that took several hundred million years to accumulate. When I was born there were only 2 billion people on the planet. Now there are over 7 billion and the energy needs of all except the very poorest have increased exponentially in the past 64 years. The big end of town has done very well thank you. It is beyond reasonable doubt that humans have had a major influence over the change in our climate.

 

Deniers see a volcano erupting and a ship stuck in some ice and it massages their ego of denial. These things have always happened. Of course they have but never before have we had 7 billion people clamoring for more and more every day. We just can't stop using fossil fuels or 4 or 5 billion of us would disappear. We need to reduce our insatiable demand for cheap fossil fuel energy or eventually perish, my guess within 200 years. Luckily there are a lot of people even at the big end of town who understand this and are moving in the right direction. The problem is that it is all too slow and it may take a major event like the Gulf Stream slowing to such a degree that Europe ends up with a climate like Canada to really get some change happening at a fast enough pace to slow the process to a point where we can begin to reverse the trends.

 

We will all be dead but it would be nice if we went with the knowledge that we finally saw the errors and made some positive change for the future of humanity.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

As a child I didn't expect to reach 21 because of the expected nuclear war, then the Club of Rome said we would have global starvation by about 1995. I'm a Geoscientist which means I know a bit about the earth ( but really mainly about the economic minerals) and I'm just not persuaded that this round of scary stuff will wipe me out either. I'm pretty sure that man is affecting climate a little, but I reckon we are just as likely to go into an ice age as to warm up. That is really a reflection of the poor state of our knowledge. I think geologists have a better understanding than the self-appointed climate scientists ( in fact there is no such discipline in science). And to those hanging it on the filthy rich miners, who do you have in mind? Most mining companies are public companies, so we can all buy their shares if we think that makes you filthy rich. It hasn't worked for me yet, but I live in hope.

I had a similar experience, PM, but disagree with some of your post.

"I'm just not persuaded that this round of scary stuff will wipe me out either". Our species is likely to survive pretty much any cataclysm- but our civilisation probably won't. I have previously posted my concerns about the growing numbers of environmental refugees. Ancient Rome couldn't cope with the waves of immigrants it had to absorb.

 

...I'm pretty sure that man is affecting climate a little, but I reckon we are just as likely to go into an ice age as to warm up...

If you agree humans are affecting climate, then surely we need to do something about it- at least throw huge resources at research.

 

...I think geologists have a better understanding than the self-appointed climate scientists ( in fact there is no such discipline in science)...

I find this difficult to agree with. Science breeds new specialties at an dizzying rate. Just have a look at the lists of professorships in major universities. Who are these "self-appointed" climate scientists you speak of?

 

 

[dazza 38]

Pretty sure you will find that the fracking process is ongoing, once your wells flow rate slows, a quick frack will boost the flow. Have you seen Gasland?Just for a laugh, start taking photos of the chemical drums around the wells in an obvious fashion and see if they sack you.

 

Its always a sure sign that they are up to no good. But seriously how can you rehabilitate a well that's several hundred metres below ground level? Using concrete to stop a gas flow is like fixing a leaky balloon with sticky tape

NOPE- like I said, Fracking is ONLY done in a small percentage of wells when they are first drilled or worked over by a drill rig. That is the only time.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I find this difficult to agree with. Science breeds new specialties at an dizzying rate. Just have a look at the lists of professorships in major universities. Who are these "self-appointed" climate scientists you speak of?

We used to have meteorologists, who studied weather, atmospheric physicists, who studied how the atmosphere worked, climatologists who studied past climates and how our climate worked, and so on. The people who understood past interactions and how they had affected the planet were geologists. Now we have thousands of so-called climate scientists claiming to understand a lot more than they do. Most of my geologists friends are not impressed. The planet has been warmer and colder in the past, sea levels have been higher and lower. Change is the constant. Sea level rise is lower than it was over the last 17000 years or so on average. In the past you could walk from Tasmania to the mainland or from France to England. Temperature is never constant, it is either rising or falling over millennia. Rising is better than the alternative if the alternative is an ice age.

 

The question of population is a different one and I agree with you OK. Flying over cities today is like looking down on a growing cancer. I would like to see action that reduces global populations in order to save elephants, tigers, rhinos and so on. I think that is a far bigger threat than climate change and I don't understand why people aren't reacting to it. I think the main self-regulating mechanism in the past was warfare and unfortunately that will probably be true in the future. A side benefit will be a reduction in global emissions, once the dust has settled.

 

 

[facthunter]

The radioactive dust? We have ways to make this Planet uninhabitable. Latest technology. Special low price introductory offer. No more having to put up with sand being kicked into your face. Nev