louise skidmore Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Bought a P92S/Echo in 2002 - MTOW 544kg. When it arrived, Bruce Stark was unable to get it registered with RAA due to the weight restriction which was then 450kg by default. Having sold us an aircraft with a 544kg MTOW, he very kindly had it registered VH-experimental, so I could fly it and actually take a passenger and do a decent flight. Not long after the appropriate documentation was supplied by Tecnam to RAA. We changed the rego to RAA with no problems. I've renewed this rego every year since, until now, I'm told by RAA that they don't have an appropriate certificate for 544kg. I know another pilot with a Tecnam Sierra with the same problem. With a 450kg MTOW I can only get less than an hour's fuel and a passenger! Does anyone have any idea what's happening here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I don't, but good luck Louise. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Interesting, the Tecnam Golf I hire has currently a MTOW of 544 kg I flew it only a few days ago (Tuesday) and it is still has the MTOW sticker saying 544. So I wonder when its rego becomes due, does it revert to 450 kg ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbear Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Interesting, the Tecnam Golf I hire has currently a MTOW of 544 kg I flew it only a few days ago (Tuesday) and it is still has the MTOW sticker saying 544. So I wonder when its rego becomes due, does it revert to 450 kg ?. On renewal I had the same problem I have a pretty hefty mate so have told him he has to lose weight because if I take him I can't take fuel :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 It sounds like amature hour at RAA again. These aircraft will become nearly useless at 450 kg MTOW. They have been flying around for years and thousands of hours at or near the 544 kg weight. What a circus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 What's the BEW of these tecnams? This means that the BEW must be less then 273kgs to take 2 people and 1hr of fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 High two hundreds from memory. Post script - i just checked it out , P 96 Golf have a empty weight of 280 to 285 kilos give or take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Obviously, the RAA are more worried about a midair failure than running out of fuel. The RAA are experts at safety and doing a fine job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Well anything over the 273kg BEW and you shouldn't be able to register the aircraft as it doesn't comply with the tech manual. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willborne Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 High two hundreds from memory. Post script - i just checked it out , P 96 Golf have a empty weight of 280 to 285 kilos give or take. I have a Golf with MTOW of 544 just had it registered. I do have a type certificate stating 544. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I have a Golf with MTOW of 544 just had it registered. I do have a type certificate stating 544. Thanks Willborne, saves me going on a diet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyhi Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Bought a P92S/Echo in 2002 - MTOW 544kg. When it arrived, Bruce Stark was unable to get it registered with RAA due to the weight restriction which was then 450kg by default. Having sold us an aircraft with a 544kg MTOW, he very kindly had it registered VH-experimental, so I could fly it and actually take a passenger and do a decent flight. Not long after the appropriate documentation was supplied by Tecnam to RAA. We changed the rego to RAA with no problems. I've renewed this rego every year since, until now, I'm told by RAA that they don't have an appropriate certificate for 544kg. I know another pilot with a Tecnam Sierra with the same problem. With a 450kg MTOW I can only get less than an hour's fuel and a passenger! Does anyone have any idea what's happening here. If RAA don't have an appropriate certificate it must be amongst the numerous "RAA Lost Files". They themselves (AUF) have issued an Acceptance Certificate for the P92 Super Echo at 544 kg. Here is a copy attached. P92_EchoSuper.pdf P92_EchoSuper.pdf P92_EchoSuper.pdf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyhi Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I don't, but good luck Louise. Nev Looks like neither does RAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louise skidmore Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 If RAA don't have an appropriate certificate it must be amongst the numerous "RAA Lost Files". They themselves (AUF) have issued an Acceptance Certificate for the P92 Super Echo at 544 kg. Here is a copy attached. Yes. That would be the acceptance certificate Bruce provided to RAA just after he registered my Echo GA. I'm trying to understand what's wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbear Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yes. That would be the acceptance certificate Bruce provided to RAA just after he registered my Echo GA. I'm trying to understand what's wrong with it. What weight is it registered under overseas? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Wikipedia has it covered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbear Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thanks tornado just checked it 550 kg it seems when they come to Australia their not as strong maybe sent deck cargo On a submarine resulting in weakened wing spars from corrosion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyhi Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thanks tornado just checked it 550 kg it seems when they come to Australia their not as strong maybe sent deck cargo On a submarine resulting in weakened wing spars from corrosion! Yes that's right 550kg and restricted to 544kg in Aus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyhi Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yes. That would be the acceptance certificate Bruce provided to RAA just after he registered my Echo GA. I'm trying to understand what's wrong with it. Not exactly Louise. That is the Acceptance Certificate issued by the AUF now the RAA Technical Manager at the time as a result of the information supplied by Bruce. It signifies the acceptance by RAA of the aircraft in Australia at a MTOW of 544 kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbear Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yes that's right 550kg and restricted to 544kg in Aus No 450 kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyhi Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 No 450 kg Not according to the AUF Acceptance Certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louise skidmore Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Not exactly Louise. That is the Acceptance Certificate issued by the AUF now the RAA Technical Manager at the time as a result of the information supplied by Bruce. It signifies the acceptance by RAA of the aircraft in Australia at a MTOW of 544 kg. Of course, you're right - I got that back to front! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Well let us hope this gets sorted as I now I am currently 544kg but after March 28 I am back to 450kg or no renewal, well out I go to stick on a 450kg placard and while I am at it I may as well take some more photos of under wing , tail ect as I am sure even though they have them from last year I will be asked for something. Oh dear what a difference a few kilos makes. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I was going to post on this yesterday but didn't want to spoil anyone's weekend. A CASA chappie mentioned the likely MTOW reductions for a number of aircraft at our club breakfast in the morning. Apparently CASA has decided to stick rigidly to manufacturers specifications from now on. This affects GA and RA. No more schedule 5's and SIDS will likely go right across the field as the Cessna decisions start to flow on to the rest of the manufacturers. For RA, it means that a lot of aircraft were somehow registered to carry higher MTOWs than the makers spec says they should. The specs will prevail and those the have to come down will, I am told. The only thing that might fix it is if the manufacturer is convinced to do the work to certify to a higher MTOW. I see mega bucks in my lawyer's crystal ball because it seems some importers may have been complicit in the original deception. Error. Jab owners can relax. Their aircraft are certified for their registered MTOW. Haven't chased up the rest but our club's Tecnam Echo is not looking good right now. Kaz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 does anyone know what the acceptance cert limit is for the Xair Std. Told it was 544, then Raa Aus said 490kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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