Wittman Tailwind

[ave8rr]

Any forum members had any experience with the Wittman Tailwind either W8 or W10 models?

 

I believe there are two or three on the RAAus register.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Bandit12]

Probably more information over on HBA. The Wittman aircraft seem to come up reasonably often in discussion there.

 

 

[Keenaviator]

Any forum members had any experience with the Wittman Tailwind either W8 or W10 models?I believe there are two or three on the RAAus register.

Cheers

I would have thought they'd be too hot for the RAA register - perhaps more examples of why we're under the microscope.

Laurie

 

 

[crashley]

new one nearly ready to fly at Latrobe valley

 

 

[motzartmerv]

One pranged at jaseprs about 2 years ago. Not sure what ever became of it. it was from wedderburn. Poor thing looked like its back was broken.

 

 

[Keenaviator]

Prett

 

new one nearly ready to fly at Latrobe valley[/quoteI'd be surprised if it goes RAA Ash. It does look very nice!

Laurie

[ave8rr]

I would have thought they'd be too hot for the RAA register - perhaps more examples of why we're under the microscope.Laurie

I understand 590Kgs MTOW and BEW around 380KGS with 0200 powerplant. Stall I am told is around 40kts full flap at Gross.

Cheers

 

 

[naremman]

The late Geoff Oliver built VH-MGO when he was a traffic policeman based at Kellerberrin, WA in the early 1970's. It had the same engine as my Airtourer, but was a good 30 Knots quicker in cruise. Departure out of Kellerberrin was always interesting when visiting Wally Thomson for maintenance. If it wasn't Geoff in the Tailwind wanting to get friendly once airborne it was Wally Mather in a Thorpe T18.

 

Once Geoff had retired from Mr Plod duties he used to do some work with Northam Air Services, and Geoff was no small man and together, with tollboxes and swag had the main gear fair splayed when he was off on a station run. That main gear always looked a bit spindly but I think despite the challenges that Geoff threw its way seemed to hold up pretty well. The last I saw of MGO was suspended in Graeme King's hangar in Northam.

 

I do have one memory that endures of Geoff and the Tailwind. In the late 1960's the late Robert Holmes a Court was a part owner of my Airtourer and used it to venture down to Albany when he had an interest in the Albany Woollen Mills. In 1991 I was approached to take Paul Holmes a Court for a fly at Northam, as the family had a photo of Janet Holmes a Court sitting in the Airtourer when she was pregnant with Paul. Assuming my most responsible behaviour, attempting to be hyper vigilant, with Holmes a Court the youngest aboard we launched off out of Northam with all the enthusiasm that an Airtourer 100 can muster with two big blokes on board. At 200' agl a yellow streak arrived and parked on my right wingtip. Of all times for Geoff to be friendly!!!! All my attempts to not harm my passenger faced a potential compromise. Without trying to draw the attention of Paul I was discreetly signalling Geoff to "P1$$ off" and leave us alone. All to no avail, and the yellow Tailwind remaining firmly on station on my right wingtip for the duration of the flight, until late final. By the time I had concluded things with Paul, and set off seeking Geoff to thank him for his close friendship, he had been appraised of the situation and had long since decamped!

 

Geoff and that Tailwind were consistent attendees at ULAA/SAAA functions, or any other chance for pilots to get together, and both pilot and aircraft were not lacking in character.

 

The aircraft certainly was a performer, as it would be quicker in cruise than a J230 with nominally 20 horses less, and would probably be the better legal load carrier.

 

 

[Bob Llewellyn]

I understand 590Kgs MTOW and BEW around 380KGS with 0200 powerplant. Stall I am told is around 40kts full flap at Gross.Cheers

Anyone know the "clean" stall speed?

 

 

[Riley]

The late Geoff Oliver built VH-MGO when he was a traffic policeman based at Kellerberrin, WA in the early 1970's. It had the same engine as my Airtourer, but was a good 30 Knots quicker in cruise. Departure out of Kellerberrin was always interesting when visiting Wally Thomson for maintenance. If it wasn't Geoff in the Tailwind wanting to get friendly once airborne it was Wally Mather in a Thorpe T18.Once Geoff had retired from Mr Plod duties he used to do some work with Northam Air Services, and Geoff was no small man and together, with tollboxes and swag had the main gear fair splayed when he was off on a station run. That main gear always looked a bit spindly but I think despite the challenges that Geoff threw its way seemed to hold up pretty well. The last I saw of MGO was suspended in Graeme King's hangar in Northam.

 

I do have one memory that endures of Geoff and the Tailwind. In the late 1960's the late Robert Holmes a Court was a part owner of my Airtourer and used it to venture down to Albany when he had an interest in the Albany Woollen Mills. In 1991 I was approached to take Paul Holmes a Court for a fly at Northam, as the family had a photo of Janet Holmes a Court sitting in the Airtourer when she was pregnant with Paul. Assuming my most responsible behaviour, attempting to be hyper vigilant, with Holmes a Court the youngest aboard we launched off out of Northam with all the enthusiasm that an Airtourer 100 can muster with two big blokes on board. At 200' agl a yellow streak arrived and parked on my right wingtip. Of all times for Geoff to be friendly!!!! All my attempts to not harm my passenger faced a potential compromise. Without trying to draw the attention of Paul I was discreetly signalling Geoff to "P1$$ off" and leave us alone. All to no avail, and the yellow Tailwind remaining firmly on station on my right wingtip for the duration of the flight, until late final. By the time I had concluded things with Paul, and set off seeking Geoff to thank him for his close friendship, he had been appraised of the situation and had long since decamped!

 

Geoff and that Tailwind were consistent attendees at ULAA/SAAA functions, or any other chance for pilots to get together, and both pilot and aircraft were not lacking in character.

 

The aircraft certainly was a performer, as it would be quicker in cruise than a J230 with nominally 20 horses less, and would probably be the better legal load carrier.

For your info Nareman, MGO lives on (albeit still in a state of repose). She's with her her second owner since coming down from the rafters of Kingie's hangar and is currently residing not far from Northam sans FWF. Present owner has purchased and intends to mount a Rotec R2800 radial in the airframe. "Twill be a most unusual aircraft when it happens. cheers Riley

 

 

[corvairkr]

Anyone know the "clean" stall speed?

Bob,

i have a set of W10 plans which state stalling speed with flaps 43kts and stall speed without flaps 49kts @ gross of 646kg (1425lb)

 

I was looking over a Tailwind this morning which is a regular visitor from Montpelier,beautiful aircraft i love them a bit heavy for RAA though.

 

Its little sister the Wittman Buttercup would be a perfect fit for RAA http://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html

 

Jason

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

This is the one from Montpelier, purchased at a faily low price at Oshkosh I believe, and imported. Quality is good ...it just recently got a new windshield. He comes in pretty quick, but can't quote speeds as I haven't been in it............Maj.......

 

 

 

[billwoodmason]

One of the local members at Cobden had his for sale 12 or 18 months ago - don,t know if it sold or what has become of it. It was a pretty hot performer - from memory 150 kts from 150 hp. Could pass on details if anyone interested.

 

 

[Bob Llewellyn]

Bob,i have a set of W10 plans which state stalling speed with flaps 43kts and stall speed without flaps 49kts @ gross of 646kg (1425lb)

I was looking over a Tailwind this morning which is a regular visitor from Montpelier,beautiful aircraft i love them a bit heavy for RAA though.

 

Its little sister the Wittman Buttercup would be a perfect fit for RAA http://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html

 

Jason

Ok, sounds good. I have a small concern over the Vb, or Vno; small slow aeroplanes tend to be able to achieve their Clmax in rare gusts, and the process of sticking bigger engines in (e.g. the Rotax 912 in the Kappa Sova, designed for a 503!) gives a 75% power cruise way over the rough air penetration speed. Thorpe & Van Grusven(?) get around this by low aspect ratios, and highish wing loadings; I expect the W8 did similar, but the W10 wing would be expected to have a steeper lift curve. Do they suggest a Vno or Vb?

They're one of my favourite designs, but the W8 with small engine has a not-so-impressive speed range by modern standards, and is less than ideal out of 1,000ft grass strips at 3,000 ft density altitude :o(

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The Wittman Tailwind was of course never designed as a STOl aircraft. The wings are directly related to Steves racers of the 20s and 30s., and primarily optimised for speed and efficiency. A lage degree of the total lift (some suggest around 25% or so ) on the Tailwind is obtained from the fuselages' airfoil like profile.

 

With good horsepower up front they seem to do a fairly good job of getting off the average strip.......Most , if not all aircraft would have some degree of difficulty getting out of a 1000 FT grass strip at 3000 FT DA unless they were turbine powered or supercharged.....Maj....

 

 

[ave8rr]

Anyone know the "clean" stall speed?

Bob, not sure of "clean" stall speed but this from an owner of a 0200 powered W8.......

38kts was supposed to be the number but it developed a rapid sink rate before hand and I was always cautious below 45.

 

Cheers

 

 

[ave8rr]

Some interesting discussions re the Wittman Tail wind on the Oshkosh Discussion Board.

 

http://www.oshkosh365.org/ok365_DiscussionBoardTopic.aspx?id=1235&boardid=147&forumid=178&topicid=4534

 

Cheers

 

 

[Bob Llewellyn]

The Wittman Tailwind was of course never designed as a STOl aircraft. The wings are directly related to Steves racers of the 20s and 30s., and primarily optimised for speed and efficiency. A lage degree of the total lift (some suggest around 25% or so ) on the Tailwind is obtained from the fuselages' airfoil like profile.With good horsepower up front they seem to do a fairly good job of getting off the average strip.......Most , if not all aircraft would have some degree of difficulty getting out of a 1000 FT grass strip at 3000 FT DA unless they were turbine powered or supercharged.....Maj....

My Thrusters ain't supercharged, and they manage

The W-8 with C-85, or even O-200, appears a fairly - but not astoundingly - efficient package; but it has a very high utility as a personal aircraft; especially in the US, which is paved with runways. Adding a bit of extra power obviously makes them more STOL, but tends to increase the cruise speed and eat into the structural margins blah blah (who'd fit an IO-320 and cruise at 40% power, eh?).

 

A Corby Starlet with a solid lifter J-2200 makes a pretty useful runabout for one, out of short hot-and-high strips... more so with the 3-piece wing and extra tankage, i suspect.

 

The Buttercup looks very much Rundflug-inspired; I doubt the coupled slats/flap mechanism makes for easy approach control! Would it qualify as a "simple" aircraft under LSA / ASTM?

 

 

[microman]

We have a Tailwind in NZ, powered by a Lycoming - its currently for sale on TradeMe (www.trademe.co.nz) - somehow its owner managed to get it into the microlight category (MAUW - 600 kg, stall under 45kts). Not only that but he operates out of a 300m grass strip and says its never a problem!

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

We have a Tailwind in NZ, powered by a Lycoming - its currently for sale on TradeMe (www.trademe.co.nz) - somehow its owner managed to get it into the microlight category (MAUW - 600 kg, stall under 45kts). Not only that but he operates out of a 300m grass strip and says its never a problem!

What kind of knots?

 

 

[Oscar]

That one is just loverly! I believe they are a bit sharp in the stall, but they go like a cut cat for the hp. Didn't Barry Bishton have one? I have never tired of watching this video of Steve climbing out in his inverted Olds-V8 -powered one:

 

 

 

[Yenn]

Bob Llewellyn. I've never though tof the corby as STOL, will have to see what I can do with mine, but I doubt that it is much shorter T.O or landing than my RV4

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

That one is just loverly! I believe they are a bit sharp in the stall, but they go like a cut cat for the hp. Didn't Barry Bishton have one? I have never tired of watching this video of Steve climbing out in his inverted Olds-V8 -powered one:

Yes, Barrie Bishton DID have one. After owning it for about ten years, he built a replacement set of wings for it, with a different airfoil, because it was prone to drop a wing, or just drop out of the sky, when he tried to short-field land it (necessary for his strip near Gunning), and he got tired of this quirk.

 

 

[microman]

Aviation ones I presume!

 

 

[Bob Llewellyn]

Aviation ones I presume!

I suspect he meant "CAS or IAS?".... in the "rudder during finals" thread (I think) there's a useful post on stall speed determination ...