Prior permission required?

[ayavner]

hey all,

 

just wondering what we do in a case where we haven't been able to reach the listed number or email address listed for PPR in ERSA? I'm going to fly right over Mittagong on the way to Goulburn, and thought I might do a full stop there or some touch and goes, just for practice.

 

whats the go, can i just broadcast when in the area and ask for permission that way if all other avenues have failed?

 

thoughts?

 

 

[robinsm]

Try the oaks, you might even get a coffee? Good crowd.

 

 

[ayavner]

Yup, hitting the oaks as well... but with the rain we've been getting not sure if i'll land there or not. Plan is to hit the BBQ at Goulburn, weather permitting.

 

 

[Piet Fil]

I take the view that if the AD operator goes to the effort of placing themselves as PPR in ERSA, then unless I have contacted them on the supplied number then it's a no go for me. If you attempt to get permission over the radio, Who's to say that the person on the other end of the radio has the authority to grant you approval. They are asking for a courtesy call and unless I'm in an emergency I wouldn't be abusing their hospitality.

 

That's my view ... Anyways,

 

Hope you have a good flight Ayavner

 

Phil

 

 

[David Isaac]

Technically you must have permission to land at any ALA in Australia.

 

A part of that process allows you as the PIC to ascertain the operational status of the field and your ability to use it legally with your particular aircraft and load.

 

If you don't obtain permission and just turn up (which a lot of people do) and something goes wrong and you are called to account for your actions, it could be legally embarrassing. You would certainly have no come back if there was a displaced threshold that you were not aware of and sustained damage or injury. In those circumstances possibly your insurer could deny any claim.

 

 

[ayavner]

Kinda what I thought guys, thanks! I'll just fly over unless i'm able to get them in the morning.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Do your best to get in contact, it is a beaut little strip, it is what is left of one of the old WWII strips that were built all over Australia 7/8ths of a mile of bitumen in their original form.

 

I used to fly a Frank Bailey 'Mustang' Ultralight out of there in the early 80s when all there was was a hangar, one little building and a Cessna 182 ... and us nutters in rag machines of course. This was before the AUF got off the ground.

 

 

[Oscar]

My brother used to fly his Auster from there down to work at de Havilland Bankstown in the late 60's - early 70's; I helped him build the first hangar on that strip since the war!. ( now long gone). If there's a southerly, the curl-over from the hill adjacent to the south end of the strip is a bloody menace ( i.e. 06 approach) - respect it. The advice from the Berrima District Aero Club: http://www.bdac.org.au/airfield/airfield.htm is accurate! We had a PA180 try to take off on 24 a couple of years ago at max gross and about 32C ambient with a few knots up the bum - ended up in the vineyard over the side of the hill after clipping the trees on the top of the hill. Nobody hurt, but some damn angry monks from the monastery that owns the vineyard... the 24 approach is fine except if it's foggy down to less than 500.

 

 

[Yenn]

Permission is not always required at ALA's There are a lot of strips in the AOPA directory where it says "permission not required", so I would assume they are giving you permission without you contacting them.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Whilst that may be the case in some circumstances, it does not absolve the PIC of responsibility to obtain operational information before attempting to land there. If you choose to land because permission is not required and do not obtain operational information, you do so at your own risk.

 

 

[Oscar]

btw Ayavener (and your trip has probably been cancelled, it's raining cats here at the moment), the BDAC are very strong on 'no training' from the strip (though that can get a bit relaxed). simply because it's close to town (and a new housing estate development has come to within about 1K of it now) and the BDAC is conscious of the need to keep the noise factor down, so too many T&Gs probably won't be hugely welcomed. Alan bloody Jones blasting in and out in his hired JetRanger at about 300 feet at full chat over the nearby countryside when he stays at his property down here doesn't help matters...

 

 

[Keith Page]

btw Ayavener (and your trip has probably been cancelled, it's raining cats here at the moment), the BDAC are very strong on 'no training' from the strip (though that can get a bit relaxed). simply because it's close to town (and a new housing estate development has come to within about 1K of it now) and the BDAC is conscious of the need to keep the noise factor down, so too many T&Gs probably won't be hugely welcomed. Alan bloody Jones blasting in and out in his hired JetRanger at about 300 feet at full chat over the nearby countryside when he stays at his property down here doesn't help matters...

What another case of:- the airport was there first ----- then all the houses get built about the perimeter ---- then the new home owners complain about the noise ---- then the airport has to shift.

 

The real estate brigade are little national treasures they find the gullible prospects and fib to them , and the new home owners love the new land because it so cheap.

 

Happens all over Australia.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page

 

 

[ayavner]

btw Ayavener (and your trip has probably been cancelled, it's raining cats here at the moment), the BDAC are very strong on 'no training' from the strip (though that can get a bit relaxed). simply because it's close to town (and a new housing estate development has come to within about 1K of it now) and the BDAC is conscious of the need to keep the noise factor down, so too many T&Gs probably won't be hugely welcomed. Alan bloody Jones blasting in and out in his hired JetRanger at about 300 feet at full chat over the nearby countryside when he stays at his property down here doesn't help matters...

Oscar - You would be right, looks like all of area 21 is awash.... I've postponed my trip, but I'll keep working on the permission at YMIG... my preference would be to land there anyway, and have a cuppa and a chat at the club... was just thinking t&g's in case no one was going to be there, but good to know... sounds an interesting place, and I hope i get to see it soon!

 

Keith - amend that - it happens all over the world! :-(

 

 

[Oscar]

Ayavner - it's most always pretty quiet there, but there are usually people working away in their hangars.. a small amount of history / background that may explain some things: the airstrip is on privately-owned land (by a local farmer) and he won't sell to the BDAC at any price, so there is always the threat that if Council re-zones that area for subdivision, it'll go. It's always a bit of a balancing act for the BDAC, and they know that any generation of local antipathy towards aircraft could likely tip the balance. When my brother started using the strip in the late 60's he was the only person flying from there, and we had to keep in good with the farmer - and one of his requirements was no take-off and landing when he was exercising his trotters on the little track you can see on the southern end.. In the winter months, my sister-in-law would drive the family car down to the strip and wait for my brother to turn final then shine the lights down the strip and accelerate like hell once he passed overhead to get some light onto the strip.

 

I used to fly with my brother down to/from Sydney a bit; when the ceiling was low, he'd fly up the valley from Bargo and pop out of it virtually in line with 24 and basically let down. It was alright over Lake Nepean but as you can see from Google Earth, that valley gets very tight at the top end...

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... drive the family car down to the strip and wait for my brother to turn final then shine the lights down the strip and accelerate like hell once he passed overhead to get some light onto the strip...

I've been searching for that ground-crew endorsement, Ocsar. Maybe it'll be included in the new Ops Manual.

 

 

[Oscar]

Of course, accelerating like hell in a Peugeot 403 is a relative term... but a pair of Cibie Super Oscars (no relation, dammit) certainly helped. A mate of mine got socked in and had to land there years ago, in a Super Cub ( I think, could have been an Auster) with a Blanik on the rope, interrupting an enroute to Bankstown from Bathurst.. When they'd tied down, all that could be heard was the brapping of frogs, it's very peaceful there, they had to walk to town (before the days of mobile phones.). Hasn't changed that much, except for the row of tidy hangars.

 

I guess we'll lose it one day, though there's quite a bit of 'old, quiet' money in the Southern Highlands and some of that monied gentry probably own aircraft hangared there, and may be able to buy Council (and afford to re-sell it at a loss..). I live directly below the route from there to The Oaks, and there's a surprising amount of local traffic, particularly on weekends. When the ceiling is low, wee beasties scuttle across the top of my place quite frequently.

 

I believe it was originally a WWII Mustang strip, one of those set-up to keep a few aircraft out of shelling range of Sydney Harbour. Wedderburn may have been another. There were about four parking bays; we set up the hangar in one of those (almost directly opposite the gate.) Most of the bitumen is still in quite good nick.