RPL from Sep 14 CASA fact sheet

[ave8rr]

CASA have published some fact sheets on the new Part 61 rules that come into force Sep 14.

 

Here is a link to the new RPL.

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_101934

 

There are also published fact sheets for things like class/type ratings and medical info etc.

 

Here is the complete list.

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_101913

 

Cheers

 

 

[Keith Page]

Good Morning ave8rr

 

Thank you for that information.

 

Do you think that will be the end of RAAus as we know the organisation?

 

I could be wrong however please suggest something, as I read the scripts there is an opening for training people to fly the small aircraft.

 

Hence a RTO for RAAus? Just thinking.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page

 

 

[ave8rr]

I could be wrong however please suggest something, as I read the scripts there is an opening for training people to fly the small aircraft.

Hence a RTO for RAAus? Just thinking. Regards Keith Page

Keith, I don't think RAAus would be involved as such however, there are a number of GA training organisations out there that offer training for both the RAAus Cert and GA PPL etc. It will be interesting to see how many prospective students will go the RPL way instead of RAAus Pilot Cert. Same hours requirement. Medical slightly different in that you do have to see a Doctor rather than self certification and the RPL can have endorsements added on. The ONLY issue appears to be the aircraft side of things where the aircraft will be GA and have the maintenance issues that go with that.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Keith Page]

ave8rr,mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

 

The aircraft and the maintenance that will be a hurdle.

 

Where will the home builts fit into the business?

 

Regards

 

Keith Page.

 

 

[nickduncs84]

I'm a newby almost done with my RA cert. I think I'll do my PPL after just to give me the flexibility to fly other aircraft and fly in controlled airspace, but as far as aircraft ownership goes, I still think that I'll stick with the 24-xxxx rego. I can't see any reason not to. I would imagine that from a cost perspective, the training, operating and ownership costs of GA aircraft are prohibitive for many. At our RA school the dual rates are $180 in a j160. The 30 year old 172 in the GA school next door is $290. I guess there is no reason RA schools can't use jabs, katanas etc to bring the cost down, and I know a few are, but they still charge a lot more, I'm guessing because of the extra maintenance costs and the higher training requirements of instructors. Fair enough as well, but one way or another RA is still a much more affordable entry point and I'm guessing once a lot of people are 'in' they will stick with RA Aus as there's not enough of a reason to switch....

 

 

[Doug Evans]

I'm a newby almost done with my RA cert. I think I'll do my PPL after just to give me the flexibility to fly other aircraft and fly in controlled airspace, but as far as aircraft ownership goes, I still think that I'll stick with the 24-xxxx rego. I can't see any reason not to. I would imagine that from a cost perspective, the training, operating and ownership costs of GA aircraft are prohibitive for many. At our RA school the dual rates are $180 in a j160. The 30 year old 172 in the GA school next door is $290. I guess there is no reason RA schools can't use jabs, katanas etc to bring the cost down, and I know a few are, but they still charge a lot more, I'm guessing because of the extra maintenance costs and the higher training requirements of instructors. Fair enough as well, but one way or another RA is still a much more affordable entry point and I'm guessing once a lot of people are 'in' they will stick with RA Aus as there's not enough of a reason to switch....

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100191/rr61_rpl_fs.pdf.

 

Going bye this u be able to do that with this new rpl licence asoming the aircraft has a transponder ..??

 

 

[nickduncs84]

I hadn't seen that document. Seems like a blatant attempt to dismantle RA Aus doesn't it?? I think I am correct in saying that any owner builder who is currently RA Aus registered will be able to apply for an RPL, switch to VH experimental and continue to fly / maintain their own aircraft without having to worry about RA Aus. They will then also be able to add on a controlled airspace endo...

 

for those with 24 rego's similar thing, with the only difference being you'll need to pay a LAME for maintenance.

 

Or am I missing something??

 

 

[Doug Evans]

I hadn't seen that document. Seems like a blatant attempt to dismantle RA Aus doesn't it?? I think I am correct in saying that any owner builder who is currently RA Aus registered will be able to apply for an RPL, switch to VH experimental and continue to fly / maintain their own aircraft without having to worry about RA Aus. They will then also be able to add on a controlled airspace endo...for those with 24 rego's similar thing, with the only difference being you'll need to pay a LAME for maintenance.

 

Or am I missing something??

Not shore what it's going to mean but i am shore we be enlighten as time goes bye !

 

 

[frank marriott]

Doug

 

Yes a RPL will allow [with relevant endorsement] CTA access. For aircraft & pilot to qualify look at CAO 95.55 - 7.3 plus the maintenance requirements for CTA in Tech Manual 4.2.4-6 INSTRUMENATION

 

You will still require a RAA certificate to fly a RAA registered aircraft [thus RAA BFR and GA BFR] unless only flying VH aircraft.

 

 

[ave8rr]

You will still require a RAA certificate to fly a RAA registered aircraft [thus RAA BFR and GA BFR] unless only flying VH aircraft.

Frank, if the AFR is done in a GA aircraft then this covers the RAAus BFR . I did my CPL AFR just before Xmas and then sent in copy of log book entry with RAAus renewal and new Pilot Cert issued with current BFR.

Cheers

 

 

[poteroo]

DougYes a RPL will allow [with relevant endorsement] CTA access. For aircraft & pilot to qualify look at CAO 95.55 - 7.3 plus the maintenance requirements for CTA in Tech Manual 4.2.4-6 INSTRUMENATION

You will still require a RAA certificate to fly a RAA registered aircraft [thus RAA BFR and GA BFR] unless only flying VH aircraft.

The 'devil' is in the Drivers Licence (Aviation) Medical. Just look at the list of conditions which disqualify you from holding it. For older RAAus pilots, I believe this will prove a real stumbling block. You will need to be very careful in your claims because I've no doubt that Avmed will be running a few random audits of RPL aspirants just to be sure the self assessments are honest. If you want to swap from RAAus to RPL - you have to attain either this medical - or a Class 2, perhaps with conditions attached to it.

 

 

 

Can't see anything but positive future for RAAus in the training industry. There will be a sizeable saving by starting RAAus and then converting later on.

 

 

 

happy days,

 

 

[frank marriott]

Frank, if the AFR is done in a GA aircraft then this covers the RAAus BFR . I did my CPL AFR just before Xmas and then sent in copy of log book entry with RAAus renewal and new Pilot Cert issued with current BFR.Cheers

Yes correct, I forgot to mention that (have done that also) another option is to do it with a CFI who is a qualified CFI with both RAA and CASA (obviously in suitable aircraft)

 

Personally I can't see any opposition to a RAA certificate, just an extra if someone so wishes. I my case owning/operating/maintaining a GA aircraft is outside my budget (licence and medical are not a problem - at least not YET)

 

 

[dodo]

I think the medical requirement still represents something of an obstacle, as it has the same problem all CASA medicals do - once you have any hint condition or exception, you are probably up for months of no flying, and significant costs.

 

Otherwise, the RPL looks pretty positive, especially with the CTA endorsement, which would then allow you to fly into controlled airspace with many RA aircraft.

 

dodo

 

 

[Doug Evans]

So if I understand this we as RAA are not having to do this rpl it only an option for those how wish to fly lsa aircraft

 

So if I fly a lightwing with a two stroke this will no affect me or other ultralighters below that class Eg Lp aircraft ?

 

 

[frank marriott]

Correct Doug, not even LSA, only if you want to fly VH aircraft or into CTA .

 

 

[Doug Evans]

Correct Doug, not even LSA, only if you want to fly VH aircraft or into CTA .

Thanks that good news I am more than happy to stay with RAA as I think a few other are !

Cheers and thank Frank

 

Doug

 

 

[seb7701]

Just read the fact sheet and interpreted it to say that as an RAA certificate holder, I could obtain an RPL with class 2 medical and therefore be able to fly a V h reg aircraft with more than one passenger.

 

Further, I can also exercise the privileges of my RAA xcountry endorsement, thus no remain in the GFPT restricted radius. If that is the case, with a controlled airspace endorsement, then what is the difference between an RPL with CTA and XC and a PPl??

 

 

[nickduncs84]

Nothing if you're only going to be vfr I'm guessing. Only reason seems to be if you want nvfr or cir ratings

 

 

[01rmb]

“A pilot certificate is equivalent to an RPL” but the RPL allows controlled aerodrome and controlled airspace endorsements and ability to carry more than one passenger whilst RAA pilot certificates are banished to the country with only one other person.

 

You can get so much more from the RPL for no more trouble and can even fly the same aircraft but with a VH registration. Is RAA going to be allowed to have the same privileges or is this just a way for CASA to marginalise their competition and limit them to only looking after low performance aircraft?

 

Looks like I will be lining up to get a RPL as soon as they come out. It will be about time when I need to do my BFR so I will need to do a flight review anyway!!

 

 

[metalman]

For those who haven't ,or can't , done the PPL this will open up a lot of options aircraft wise, I reckon the SAAA will benefit more than anyone from this , doing the training RAA then moving into some of the VH experimentals will be very easy, even being able to use all the load on the jab230(430?) would be a draw card

 

Matty

 

 

[Neil_S]

Don't you still need a plane with a certified engine, and TSO'd instruments, to fly into Controlled Airspace? Rules out a lot of recreational planes I would think....

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

 

[dodo]

"Approved" engine - not "certified"

 

dodo

 

 

[poteroo]

“A pilot certificate is equivalent to an RPL” but the RPL allows controlled aerodrome and controlled airspace endorsements and ability to carry more than one passenger whilst RAA pilot certificates are banished to the country with only one other person.You can get so much more from the RPL for no more trouble and can even fly the same aircraft but with a VH registration. Is RAA going to be allowed to have the same privileges or is this just a way for CASA to marginalise their competition and limit them to only looking after low performance aircraft?

 

Looks like I will be lining up to get a RPL as soon as they come out. It will be about time when I need to do my BFR so I will need to do a flight review anyway!!

Don't be so sure that the RPL is just a straight swap for the RAAus PC with no downsides. It isn't - you must complete the Drivers Licence (Aviation) Medical before you can convert to it, (via a BFR by a GA CFI). As I previously noted, the page full of exclusions is going to prove difficult for an RAAus PC holder who has some health issues. In some cases it will be easier to go for the Class 2 and accept some conditions. And you won't be swanning allover the country with a big load of passengers. If you wished to fly with more than one pax on your RPL - then you need a Class 2 Aviation Medical - no different to the PC. Same with more than 1500 kg gross weight aircraft. It's not necessarily the utopian solution that SAAA boomed it up to be.

 

happy days,

 

 

[metalman]

Don't be so sure that the RPL is just a straight swap for the RAAus PC with no downsides. It isn't - you must complete the Drivers Licence (Aviation) Medical before you can convert to it, (via a BFR by a GA CFI). As I previously noted, the page full of exclusions is going to prove difficult for an RAAus PC holder who has some health issues. In some cases it will be easier to go for the Class 2 and accept some conditions. And you won't be swanning allover the country with a big load of passengers. If you wished to fly with more than one pax on your RPL - then you need a Class 2 Aviation Medical - no different to the PC. Same with more than 1500 kg gross weight aircraft. It's not necessarily the utopian solution that SAAA boomed it up to be.

happy days,

Nothing to do with CASA is ever as easy as it seems,,,,1500kg will get most of the two place experimentals ,,,I've never looked into the DL medical but I'm sure it's not as sensible as it could've been. There is a lot more issues with these changes than just the RPL,,,,,DJP acro has been posting a bit on the changes that effect GA across the board,,,it'll be an interesting mess as usual! Why they couldn't just use the FAA regs here,,,seems so much easier than the euro trash

Matty

 

 

[Letitia]

Keith. Please, please, please do not spend $20,000 + on this just to be screwed over; please (Don’t get me wrong; I know of a couple of RA-Aus instructors who have done the same thing to their students).

 

I find this whole RPL thing to be completely useless. I think that anyone wanting to convert should just attempt a PPL (unless you are unable to hold a valid Class 1 or 2 medical then go for it)!

 

I think that RA-Aus and CASA should remain separate and continue to offer their services irrespective of each another.

 

RA-Aus is currently very unstructured and offers pilots a chance to experience flying without worrying too much about the hassles of CTA/CTR, ICAO and CASA, all the rules etc. also seem to be unflustered about low flying, mustering etc.

 

However, by the same token GA flying is just as rewarding. More passengers and general storage space; more speed and HP; the ability to fly into controlled airspace; aerobatics; mustering; low-level; formation etc. (you can get some of these endorsements with RA-Aus). However, with this type of flying you have to be much more aware of the rules. You have to know your AIP, the CAO’s and CAR’s and there is less chance for error. They demand so much more of you.

 

Lately, I have been wondering which flying schools will be awarded a Part 141 or 142 by CASA to carry out this training (to the best of my knowledge; currently; none exist)? I doubt that it will be offered to any RA-Aus training facility.

 

This then raises for me a couple of issues. Under the GA system to be able to instruct a student you would need to hold a current CPL and have a current instructor rating; Class 1 medical; English speaking test; radio/telephony licence; required endorsements etc. (None of this includes the requirements for the actual training facility; COA’s etc)

 

Under both the GA and RA-Aus training syllabus the instructor signs you off when you are deemed competent!

 

Now having just gone through the GA process myself with a couple of different flying schools I can tell you this is a very grey area. The flying school has to acknowledge your RA-Aus flying hours (It is in the rules and can include any 24 or factory built aircraft hours. 19 or home built hours do not count.) but do not have to sign you off until you are deemed competent in a VH registered aircraft.

 

This is why some people take 5 hours to convert to GA and some take 50. It all depends on your ability as PIC.

 

I also suspect that training will be conducted in Class D or Class C airspace so extra time is wasted in airspace and aircraft familiarisation. Any instructor who knows his/her stuff will also test your procedures. This includes emergencies, circuit procedures; precautionary search procedures; everything! The whole thing about GA flying is you must know what you are doing at all times… all the checklists BUMFTHAW, HASEL, FCMOST, CLEAROFF, DIVERT etc. All of them MUST be done and done accurately! And let’s not forget the compulsory 2 hours of instrument flying.

 

Just so you know. RA-Aus does require the same standards for GA pilots converting to RA-Aus.

 

Most of the RA-Aus instructors I know prefer to put their GA students into heavier feeling aircraft; like a Jabiru instead of the Savannah’s, Foxbat’s, Texan’s etc. because they generally feel heavier and are easier for the GA pilot to handle (mostly during landing)! (They also have slightly more lag time in the control feel. Air cooled engines much like the Continental and Lycoming’s; where you are required to think about engine cooling and heating). The rules tell us that we must do a minimum of 5 hours instructing with our students; however, once again it’s all competency based. If the student can’t handle the situation then we spend more time with them until they can fly without hurting themselves, someone else, the aircraft etc.

 

Please also note that to best of my knowledge all VH registered aircraft have to be maintained by a qualified LAME unless the aircraft is experimental. However, to maintain an experimental aircraft you need to have completed the relevant course by the SAAA. So even if you do use a VH registered Ultralight it would need to be registered as an experimental (to do your own maintenance) and you would legally have to do the course(s).

 

On top of this you have all the overheads to pay for. The ASIC (renewed every 2 years), the annual maintenance (unless you break something; in which case it’s more), the Class 2 medical (depending on your condition to be re-done every 6 months to 4 years).

 

I think that if you are willing to fork out so much money for training why would you want to get the RPL? It is basically the same as a GFPT! (You are restricted to 25NM, probably still have to do a check flight every month (3 landings), not allowed to navigate; however, I am under the impression that you be allowed to sign out the MR like a PPL! (Not sure yet if this is true…)) I think that if you have been trained correctly by your RA-Aus instructor you should technically use the same amount of time training for this RPL to obtain your PPL.

 

If you look at the training syllabus you are required to do the same amount of training time in the VH registered aircraft as the RA-Aus aircraft (20 hours for the test and another 20 total for pax and navigation). Looking at the cost also makes me scratch my head… it can cost you anywhere between $150 an hour (Ultra-ultra lights; Drifter, Thruster etc.) to $350 an hour (Modern Ultralights; Savannah’s, Jabiru’s etc.). Compared to the cost of GA training (The cheapest I’ve found $300 an hour (C172 older model) to $500/600 an hour (C172 new models to SR22 etc. (Twins are worse L)

 

However, if you do choose to get this RPL please just remember to do some research and find yourself a decent GA instructor who will assist you and not attempt to screw you over!

 

Letitia