Malaysian Airlines MH370

[Guest ozzie]

Most of the money will have to come from Australia as the search area is within our official search and rescue area.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Most of the money will have to come from Australia as the search area is within our official search and rescue area.

That's still only a presumption that the plane is in our area.

 

Time will tell, debris will wash up somewhere eventually - I will be worried if, allowing for currents, in about 9 months to a years time none shows up on any coastline..

 

 

[Teckair]

That's still only a presumption that the plane is in our area.Time will tell, debris will wash up somewhere eventually - I will be worried if, allowing for currents, in about 9 months to a years time none shows up on any coastline..

Someone has a theory in this thread as to why there has been no debris, which could explain it all.

 

 

[Yenn]

it has gone very quiet lately, as usual there will be no follow up by the media. Australia is responsible for search and rescue in a large part of the world, but at this time there is absolutely no hope of rescue, so the search is onlt ot find wreckage and find out what caused the disappearance. That is the responsibility of Boeing, being the manufacturer and Malaysia, being the owner and registration of the plane.

 

Any search now by Australia is just the same old Politicians trying to big note themselves, as is so common in australian history.

 

 

[rgmwa]

While Australia is responsible for search and rescue operations in the area, who decides how much effort should be expended? As Yenn points out there is no question of recue anymore, so I wonder who decided that we should continue to fund a search for the next two years rather than six months, say, and what they based their decision on.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[David Isaac]

Maybe we are being paid for our efforts by the guilty party .....

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Maybe we are being paid for our efforts by the guilty party .....

... to look in the wrong area .....

 

 

[facthunter]

There never was any real hope of finding anyone alive . Less as time passed, with any of the theories which would have the plane where the search(es) were conducted. Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

... to look in the wrong area .....

Indeed ...

 

 

[dutchroll]

Problem is it's a really big ocean, the plane clearly flew on for hours with all its data-linking services switched off (most telling, except the handshaking facility which cannot be disabled from the cockpit), and new analysis techniques had to be developed to calculate the probable course based on the doppler shift of the handshake interrogations.

 

That makes pinning down the exact location really, really hard. Then see my first sentence again: it's a really big ocean.

 

As an aside, had an interesting discussion with one of my colleagues recently where we both wholeheartedly agreed that this will probably lead to some airline manufacturer changes in cockpit security and aircraft tracking services. And most of my colleagues (at least the ones I've spoken to) are in general agreement as to the likely cause of this accident. Though I hope I'm proven wrong.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Problem is it's a really big ocean, and new analysis techniques had to be developed to calculate the probable course based on the doppler shift of the handshake interrogations.

When they lost track of it, which they can't actually confirm it was mh370, it was heading for Bengal Bay.

 

To get to the South corridor as I see it means they actually would have had to turn left back towards land for a bit then turn right onto the South corridor track. Why not just a minor left and get to the middle of the Indian Ocean?

 

Where they tracked it too is also way past where the 3 lots of black box signals were supposed to be.

 

 

[tafisama]

Its interesting the search is based on the never used Doppler system.To be honest when I first heard about an unidentified aircraft on radar and a height gain to 45 000Ft then down to 5000ft in a short space of time I thought a fighter aircraft was involved.Logically a fighter aircraft has such performance.Maybe there was a mid air event.Someone might be down playing things here and whilst attention is in the southern Indian Ocean a clean up is being done somewhere.The information on pings pings pings says no the aircraft engines were running.Maybe Inmarsat should share its raw data with other scientists.One report has found out that when the first ping was made the aircraft was still on the apron.The second one was when the aircraft had just been pushed back.The explanation given is that the pings were actually between the satellite and ground station.The ground station being pinged is in WA.This flight was at night and it would have involved great skill to bring the plane down whole in the Ocean.The Australian JORN has a radius of about 3000km hence it should be able to be a bit precise on pin pointing where they suspect it went down.Maybe if Australia could publicly share its information.The satellite that was receiving pings was not stationary it was orbiting north to south so in some instances they projected the plane moving further away it was in fact the satellite going the other way .This is very tricky.What ever the outcome tremendous effort has been put.The Malaysian Radar detects the plane turning Northwest towards Bay of Bengal or Andaman sea.Maybe there is some crucial information which has not been publicly shared which hold the answer.

 

 

[Bob Llewellyn]

While Australia is responsible for search and rescue operations in the area, who decides how much effort should be expended? As Yenn points out there is no question of recue anymore, so I wonder who decided that we should continue to fund a search for the next two years rather than six months, say, and what they based their decision on.rgmwa

"Ahhh, FIND THE PLANE!" - it keeps surveillance active on the north-west shelf, gives defence and coastal security an exercise and an excuse for increased budget, and does something for our relationship with SE Asia... not quite sure what though...

 

 

[bexrbetter]

"Ahhh, FIND THE PLANE!"

A brand new board game coming to you this Xmas from Parker Brothers!

 

Roll your dice, choose a sea and unravel the mysteries of conspiracy theories.

 

Earn money to buy search and rescue ships, attempt to keep your submersibles working while steering your opponents to unknown oceans. Bonus points for gagging Prime Ministers!

 

 

[dutchroll]

To be honest when I first heard about an unidentified aircraft on radar and a height gain to 45 000Ft then down to 5000ft in a short space of time I thought a fighter aircraft was involved.

A commercial jet descends at around 2000-3000 ft/min even on a standard, docile, descent profile. Use an emergency descent profile and you can multiply this several times.

 

One report has found out that when the first ping was made the aircraft was still on the apron.The second one was when the aircraft had just been pushed back.The explanation given is that the pings were actually between the satellite and ground station.

That report is just complete nonsense. The handshake signals (6 of them) used by Inmarsat for tracking the aircraft were made after ACARS data was lost in-flight. The reference to the ground station is made because that's where the data log is sent from the satellite. To put it simply: Ground station tells satellite: "Ping MH370 - I need to know if it's still online". Satellite pings MH370 and gets response "yes I'm still online". Satellite signals ground station "I've pinged MH370 and it has responded." The ground station logs these events. It was online, but not sending position or inflight data as that component (the ACARS - Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System) had been disabled.

 

The Australian JORN has a radius of about 3000km hence it should be able to be a bit precise on pin pointing where they suspect it went down.

JORN is highly dependent on where it is looking at the time, like any radar system. Also it is highly dependent on atmospheric conditions.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I am currently in the States ATM ( Seattle as I type this but we have spent the last 2 weeks in Alaska ) the missing MH 370 is still making the news daily on CNN.

 

 

[tafisama]

I found it.http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/why-the-official-explanation-of-mh370s-demise-doesnt-hold-up/361826/

 

 

[dutchroll]

One of the chief proponents of the "Inmarsat are incompetent fools covering up the truth" theory espoused in the link above is an engineer by the name of Michael Exner. Here is what one commentator had to say about it:

 

Michael Exner's chart is mostly GUESSWORK. He SAYS he doesn't have the exact data that Inmarsat used, so the chart ONLY shows his attempt to figure things out.You are using GUESSWORK to argue against SOLID DATA.

 

From what I can tell, Mr. Exner's GUESSWORK is totally wrong. His chart says that "negative numbers mean velocity away from the satellite." He shows a VERY high velocity AWAY from the satellite at 2:22 a.m. local time, when the SATELLITE EXPERTS at Inmarsat say flight MH370 was going TOWARD the satellite. The HIGH FREQUENCY OF THE PING PROVESInmarsat is right and Mr. Exner is wrong.

 

I don't want to argue about Mr. Exner's guesswork. I see no point to it.

 

You are arguing beliefs against SOLID FACTS. People who believe in the "truth" work with FACTS, not with guesswork, opinions and beliefs.

[Ben Longden]

So, have any of the conspiracy theorists found the plane?

 

Guess not.

 

Have any of the conspiracy theorists been actively involved in the search?

 

Guess not.

 

*sigh*

 

Ben

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

What about some vague (or made up) predictions from Nostradamus? I am surprised no-one has quoted one of his quatrains and reprinted The Prophesies for another generation.

 

 

 

I expect it was some catastrophic event that disabled all on board. The uncertainty is getting us a lot of remote sea bed mapping and hands on practice with high tech equipment, and a rethink of airline systems (longer battery life on black box, satellite tracking etc). Hope they find it & solve the puzzle before it happens again.

 

 

 

I feel for the Chinese. With their one child policy for a couple of generations now, it means they have lost any hope of descendants with the death of their only child, who may have been the only child of an only child.

 

 

[rgmwa]

I expect it was some catastrophic event that disabled all on board.

Or deliberate actions, which I think is what Dutchroll may be implying. Certainly possible, although it's hard to comprehend why someone would go to such lengths to disappear.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I am currently in the States ATM ( Seattle as I type this but we have spent the last 2 weeks in Alaska ) the missing MH 370 is still making the news daily on CNN.

There's been quite a bit of ribbing in the US about CNN's coverage on talk shows and even from Obama

 

https://www.google.com.hk/#newwindow=1&q=poking+fun+at+CNN+mh370+coverage&safe=strict

 

So, have any of the conspiracy theorists found the plane?Guess not.

Have any of the conspiracy theorists been actively involved in the search?

 

Guess not.

Have any of the Experts found the plane? Even a remote trace?

 

I'm certain in the public eye they put up a united front but behind closed doors they probably squabble away with their own conspiracy theories.

 

I feel for the Chinese. With their one child policy for a couple of generations now, it means they have lost any hope of descendants with the death of their only child, who may have been the only child of an only child.

The birth rate in China is higher than Australia and England for example, around 1.7 per couple last time I looked. Take any info about China that you read in the Western media with a grain of salt.

 

 

[Exadios]

Now there is a book. Turns out (you guessed it) it was the Americans.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Just some other examples I noticed to keep the minds clicking on this one, the last one is interesting and a possibility ...

 

Flight 19: Six Navy Aircraft Fall Victim to the Bermuda Triangle

 

At the height of World War II, the United States Navy dispatched five torpedo bombers on a routine training flight over the Bermuda Triangle. The Bermuda Triangle is somewhat famous for eating airplanes, so it is hardly surprising that all 14 crewmembers aboard the five military aircraft were never seen or heard from again. But hours later, the Navy sent an additional 13 men on a search-and-rescue mission in a Mariner flying boat . . . and, wouldn't you know it, they didn't return either. To this day, the fate of Flight 19 remains a mystery, and reminds us to just stay away from the triangle.

 

EgyptAir Flight 990: Suicide Pilot or Terrorist Plot?

 

In 1999 an EgyptAir Boeing 767 departed from Los Angeles and then crashed into the Atlantic Ocean, killing all 217 passengers and crew. The Egyptian Civil Aviation Authority (ECAA) blamed mechanical failure, but the United States National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) suggested that the pilot committed suicide. The pilot's last recorded words were, "I rely on God," so it was open season for speculation. Conspiracy theorists blamed the Mossad, the CIA, and Egyptian extremists, but we still don't know who or what actually knocked Flight 990 out of the sky. EgyptAir ultimately retired flight no. 990, and the company no longer runs the Los Angeles route at all.

 

Amelia Earhart: Sorry, We Had To

 

It wouldn't be a list of airplane mysteries without her. In 1937 Amelia Earhart vanished in a Lockheed Electra, never to finish her round-the-world flight. The only clues that Earhart and her Electra left behind were a few garbled (and disputed) radio transmissions. We may never know what happened to Amelia Earhart after that doomed flight. The simplest theory�that she ditched her airplane and died at sea�has never quite satisfied popular imagination. The craziest theories have her captured and executed by the Japanese government or quietly living out her days in New Jersey under an assumed name. Regardless, this remains one of aviation's greatest unsolved mysteries.

 

Helios Airways Flight 522: The Stuff of Nightmares

 

In 2005, Helios Airways Flight 522 veered only slightly off course on its short hop from Cyprus to Greece, but the crew was ignoring all radio transmissions. After 19 attempts to contact the passenger jet, two F-16s scrambled to intercept the rogue airplane. As they flew alongside Flight 522, the F-16 pilots noticed that the captain's chair was empty, the copilot was lying motionless, and oxygen masks were dangling from the ceiling.

 

Everyone on board was dead.

 

Hours after most of the 117 passengers and crew had suffocated, the autopilot remained engaged as the F-16s escorted the ghost plane until it crashed into a hillside in Greece. Subsequent investigations proved that the pilots had failed to pressurize the cabin, but simple explanations could not possibly satisfy those who revel in the possibility of a haunted aircraft.

 

B47 Stratojet: A Nuclear Bomber Goes Missing

 

It's bad when three Air Force officers and a multimillion-dollar heavy bomber are lost at sea. It's even worse when that heavy bomber is carrying two nuclear weapon cores, the contents of which are never recovered. In 1956 a nuclear B47 Stratojet disappeared over the Mediterranean Sea. We still have no idea what happened to the airplane, its crew, or either of its two nuclear bombs. The United States government has lost only 11 nukes in its history�so-called "broken arrows" that do not create a risk of nuclear war. But other broken arrows went down under less mysterious circumstances, and the B47 Stratojet's dangerous payload has yet to be recovered.

 

Aer Lingus Flight 712: Passenger Jet Taken Out by a Rogue Missile?

 

When a 1968 Aer Lingus crash killed all 61 people on board, an investigation determined that something unusual had brought down the passenger jet. Obvious deformities in the airplane's left tail suggested either serious corrosion or a bird strike, but several witnesses claimed that a British missile had taken down the jet. Although the Brits vehemently dismissed the rumors of a rogue missile launch, some evidence suggests that such a scenario is at least possible, if unlikely. Almost 50 years later, we still don't know exactly what knocked Flight 712 out of the sky, but the British missile theory leaves many wondering whether a military mistake sent 61 civilians into the Irish deep.

 

Pan Am Flight 7: Luxury Airliner Descends Into Legend

 

Billed as Clipper Romance of the Skies, Pan Am Flight 7 provided one of the most luxurious trips around the world back in 1957. But on one routine flight from California to Hawaii, the Boeing Stratocruiser disappeared without a trace. For five days, search-and-rescue teams scrambled to find the wreckage. Once the Clipper was finally found, however, the discovery raised even more questions. The Boeing craft was drifting in the ocean, miles off course, and autopsies suggested carbon monoxide poisoning. Even now, some speculate that the crash was an act of insurance fraud or revenge perpetrated by a disgruntled crewmember.

 

Flying Tiger Line Flight 739: Military Scours the Pacific for 100 Lost Soldiers

 

In 1962 a Lockheed Constellation took off over the Pacific Ocean carrying 96 soldiers and 11 crewmen, and then disappeared forever. The military conducted one of the largest search-and-rescue missions in the history of the Pacific, but never found a trace of their lost soldiers. Flying Tiger Line, an early cargo airline and military contractor, speculated that the flight had been hijacked or otherwise sabotaged, but admitted that they had no evidence to support their theories. Sailors aboard a Liberian tanker reported a fireball splashing into the sea, which suggests that Flight 739 exploded in midair. That was never confirmed.

 

Northwest Airlines and D.B. Cooper: A Hijacker Parachutes Into History

 

Although his antics never caused an airplane crash, D.B. Cooper's story is one of aviation's wackiest unsolved mysteries. In 1971 an unknown hijacker took control of a Boeing 727, forced the crew to land in Seattle, obtained $200,000 in ransom money, and released all of the passengers unharmed. He then ordered the pilot to take off and fly low over Mexico, where he parachuted to freedom. The police never caught D.B Cooper. Popular media gave him his moniker, and a crude pencil sketch gives us an idea of what he looked like, but who exactly D.B. Cooper was and where he is now remains a mystery. Some suspect that he died after ejecting from the airplane, but others maintain that this aerial criminal is still at large, sipping cold drinks south of the border.

 

British South American Airways Star Dust: One Mystery Finally Solved

 

Until 15 years ago, rumor and intrigue surrounded the story of Star Dust, an airliner that disappeared without a trace in 1947. Widespread searches failed to turn up any trace of the aircraft or its 11 passengers, and theories of spies, sabotage, and even alien abduction swarmed around tales of the lost prop plane. But 50 years later glacial ice in the Andes melted to reveal wreckage that looked startlingly like Star Dust. We now know that the aircraft plunged into the snowy mountain range and, on impact, instantly buried itself in an avalanche. It took half a century of glacial melting, but this puzzle was finally solved.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

It is a wonder that all the searching hasn't found unexpected things, like Noah's Ark or an ocean floor alien base or a pirate ship laden with gold. But would they tell us if they did?