Malaysian Airlines MH370

[spacesailor]

And now a British sailor has confirmed the oil-rig worker's observation of a aircraft in flames, and in the correct vicinity.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[David Isaac]

hmm shot down maybe .... oops

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

We are having a warm winter at the moment and you know what the climate change wankers reckon about that. It is warm because we are getting wind off the ocean and not the usual westerlies, is this caused by green house gases? probably not.

Have the people who worry about climate change called you a wanker? Or do they try to convince you with logic? Scientists predicted increasing variation in the weather and greater extremes: heat waves, cold snaps, droughts and floods. That is happening.

Many factors affect the climate, which is constantly changing. We are now one of those influences. The earth stored carbon away for hundreds of million of years. Now we are returning it to the atmosphere in a geological blink of the eye- and people can't imagine this would have any effects!

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Have the people who worry about climate change called you a wanker? Or do they try to convince you with logic?

No, they merely talk down their noses like they are all knowing and couldn't possibly be wrong.

 

Scientists predicted increasing variation in the weather and greater extremes: heat waves, cold snaps, droughts and floods. That is happening.

So you're suggesting that Dorothea Mackellar was actually a prophet?

 

I remember 3MP radio Station having a do on Mother's Beach Mornington as a teenager. They had a Treasure Hunt on the beach where they roped of an area and buried round 50 cents pieces that you got to keep and one was gold for a special prize. All the kids jumped in at the sound of the horn and a few of us including myself found them all.

 

We didn't find anything else, no fancy rocks, coloured shells or old beer bottles that are prevalent in the sand on a beach, but we found every last one of those 50 cent pieces including the gold one and do you know why?

 

Because that's what we were told to look for.

 

 

[eightyknots]

hmm shot down maybe .... oops

That was first mooted in the early days of MH370's disappearance. I wonder if that is now the most plausible explanation after all?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

No, they merely talk down their noses like they are all knowing and couldn't possibly be wrong.

Sorry if I was one of those. Any good scientist would support a theory until replaced by a better one. That's science; not an outcome, more a process, or an approach.

If they are wrong about global warming we'll only be embarrassed; if they're right we're in big trouble.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Have the people who worry about climate change called you a wanker? Or do they try to convince you with logic? Scientists predicted increasing variation in the weather and greater extremes: heat waves, cold snaps, droughts and floods. That is happening.Many factors affect the climate, which is constantly changing. We are now one of those influences. The earth stored carbon away for hundreds of million of years. Now we are returning it to the atmosphere in a geological blink of the eye- and people can't imagine this would have any effects!

Scientists often like to alarm people so that more funding is thrown at them by governments to 'study' the latest scare. There was a real fear of global cooling in the 1970s and the scientists were saying that not enough was done about it then. See the Newsweek article at: http://denisdutton.com/newsweek_coolingworld.pdf

 

Despite the dubious claim that global warming is a "fact" proven by "consensus science" (a misnomer if there ever was one), many scientists do not believe that global warming is taking place. More than 30,000 US scientists have signed a petition to this effect. Non US scientists are not permitted to sign. See: http://www.petitionproject.org/

 

I would be concerned about anyone jumping on the global warming or global cooling bandwagon without checking this out very thoroughly first.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I would agree with you about theories - they are just educated guesses at best.

 

However in the case of hard evidence the scientists have every right to defend the truth, and that may seem like looking down their noses, but they don't have to budge.

 

Unfortunately for millions of people now and in the future some of their group decided to put spin on the evidence to speed up the population's understanding, and that's not acceptable, and spectacularly backfired.

 

What is now needed is to rule a line under all that, kick those wankers out of the industry and start again with evidence based management.

 

 

[eightyknots]

That was first mooted in the early days of MH370's disappearance. I wonder if that is now the most plausible explanation after all?

Here is one such news accounts, dated 13th March 2014: http://www.news.com.au/world/oil-rig-worker-says-he-saw-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-burst-into-flames/story-fndir2ev-1226853302184

 

 

[David Isaac]

There was a plausible theory put up by a commercial pilot on some other website that suggested the plane was shot down and the world given red herrings as to where the wreckage was while it was all cleaned up. I do not subscribe to conspiracies, but this theory rang with plausibility. Plane flying straight at a critical military installation not responding to calls gets shot down, happened on previous occasions in grand public style by governments unable to cover up the evidence. What happens when you can cover up the evidence .....??????

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Despite the dubious claim that global warming is a "fact" proven by "consensus science" (a misnomer if there ever was one), many scientists do not believe that global warming is taking place. More than 30,000 US scientists have signed a petition to this effect...

So consensus among scientists is "dubious" if it believes in warming, but alright if it does not?

 

What proportion of all scientists in the USA is that 30,000? Are they qualified in the relevant scientific disciplines? (thousands of scientists have expertise in totally unrelated areas, from linguistics to biochemistry. Should they be allowed to "vote"?

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Let me just state that I have 4 daughters and one has 3 daughters - I am sure the other 3 will get there as well, just as long as sex isn't involved I'm fine with it. First point there is I want my children and their children to breathe clean air and swim in and drink clean water.

 

Each year the local farmers here, and I mean more than the entire population of Australia, burn off their straw, the smoke is terrible and choking (yes the Gov does all it can to stop it every year) but one thing for sure is that 3 to 4 days after they do it, it will rain, 100% without fail - my point here is I do not need convincing that man can have an effect on the immediate climate and maybe the climate on a greater scale.

 

But i also want my kids to eat and there is no avoiding that our economies are what they are and can not be changed overnight like some demand, it's just impossible and none of you blokes are going to stop flying tomorrow. the changes need to be put in place at a speed the economic scales can bear without collapsing and it's not and was never going to happen overnight.

 

Most smokers still crave for one as they shut their lids for the last time knowing darn well that's what did them in and most of us are cut from the same loaf. We are greedy, we love our comforts and the best we can do is try a bit but teach our next Gens where we are at fault and hope they do better.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

When a Neurosurgeon stands to talk about the state of Neurosurgery I would expect that those who would argue/debate/agree would be people who understood his subject matter ie other Neurosurgeons. I would not expect that the vast unwashed of WreckFlying (NES reference) would jump in to debate if he was a Messiah or merely a pompous idiot, and that for something as simple as brain surgery. For a subject as complex as worldwide climate, which makes mere brain surgery look like kindergarten revisited, however it seems that anyone can have a view and push their wheelbarrow and rather than us ask "What credentials do you have to even allow you to speak on this subject" we allow people a point of view (as a vastly different instrument to a fact in context) and somehow over time and iteration that point of view (or even as bluntly as a paid influence peddler) turns into accepted status quo.

 

Our means of communications over time have improved beyond measure, unfortunately the message filling in the extra bandwidth would seem to be much more dubious.

 

Andy

 

 

[bexrbetter]

"What credentials do you have to even allow you to speak on this subject"

There are some rather prestigious scientists who do not tow the GW line but then they are so easily attacked with the "You don't love your planet" line and that line is one feared by Polllies so they tow the GW line.

 

It is that imbalance that makes me and many others cynical about it.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

And now a British sailor has confirmed the oil-rig worker's observation of a aircraft in flames, and in the correct vicinity.spacesailor

That lady sailor reporting the incident from the Indian ocean whereas the Kiwi oil rigger was in the Southern China, make me wonder if they were able to see the same thing, guess some positioning plotting is in order ...

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Each year the local farmers here, and I mean more than the entire population of Australia, burn off their straw, the smoke is terrible and choking (yes the Gov does all it can to stop it every year)

Nasty! I heard the govt there uses tanks and all....

 

 

[rankamateur]

If they are wrong about global warming we'll only be embarrassed;

And a banana republic if Australia just does what it is told and toes the line to fix all the worlds problems, like the good little country we have been told to be. There is more at stake than a little embarrssment.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Nasty! I heard the govt there uses tanks and all....

That didn't happen, didn't you watch the news last night. Must have been evil propaganda from the west.

 

 

[dazza 38]

There was a plausible theory put up by a commercial pilot on some other website that suggested the plane was shot down and the world given red herrings as to where the wreckage was while it was all cleaned up. I do not subscribe to conspiracies, but this theory rang with plausibility. Plane flying straight at a critical military installation not responding to calls gets shot down, happened on previous occasions in grand public style by governments unable to cover up the evidence. What happens when you can cover up the evidence .....??????

The yanks shot down Air Iran flight 655 back in 1988 by accident thinking it was Iranian military jets. They didn't bother going into cover up mode . It is plausible the MH 370 may have been shot down but if it did, I don't think they would bother with trying to cover it up.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

What if the Malaysian military shot it down and are to afraid to own up? It is one of the few countries where this is plausible, because of the intimidatory regime. The pollies may not know.

 

 

[Teckair]

Have the people who worry about climate change called you a wanker?

Maybe name calling is not the best but I find it tiresome when every time we have a warm day there is some git on TV claiming this is evidence of climate change. Even if the theory is correct what do you propose to do? and don't say carbon tax that is nothing more than just a new tax. Al Gore the big promoter of the scam was living in a place that used massive amounts of energy, Kevin Rudd another promoter lived in a jet, if these people actually were serious why are they worse polluters than most others? You yourself certainly should not be flying a plane for fun that just makes you a hypocrite.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I believe that this post http://recreationalflying.com/threads/easter-trip-to-gyro-nats-in-a-jab.118159/#post-427286 by Deadstick in another thread is very apt here....I'll allow the viewer to determine which side fits which Gnu.....

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... i also want my kids to eat and there is no avoiding that our economies are what they are and can not be changed overnight like some demand, it's just impossible and none of you blokes are going to stop flying tomorrow. the changes need to be put in place at a speed the economic scales can bear without collapsing and it's not and was never going to happen overnight....

I totally agree, Bex. The trouble is, even the gradual transition to a cleaner future is being undermined by our present Federal government. What hope have we got when they have tossed out even the successful renewable energy policies of their predecessors, and set up an enquiry stacked with fossil fuel execs and climate-change deniers?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-05/renewable-energy-target-panel-defends-conflict-interest-claims/5501372

 

Abbott has turned back the clock and investors are losing incentive to support new clean industries which could employ far more Australians than mining.

 

And a banana republic if Australia just does what it is told and toes the line to fix all the worlds problems, like the good little country we have been told to be. There is more at stake than a little embarrssment.

Totally wrong. A banana republic is a country dependent on exporting one or two commodities. They are price-takers and suffer badly from market fluctuations. Australia is rapidly becoming dependent on exporting minerals and fossil fuels, and we can't control the prices. Our big markets are developing alternative sources- especially in Mongolia and Africa- so we should be getting ready for when the boom is over- not putting more of our eggs in the coal basket.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I'll allow the viewer to determine which side fits which Gnu.....

I'm being slandered or something....?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Maybe name calling is not the best but I find it tiresome when every time we have a warm day there is some git on TV claiming this is evidence of climate change. Even if the theory is correct what do you propose to do? and don't say carbon tax that is nothing more than just a new tax. Al Gore the big promoter of the scam was living in a place that used massive amounts of energy, Kevin Rudd another promoter lived in a jet, if these people actually were serious why are they worse polluters than most others? You yourself certainly should not be flying a plane for fun that just makes you a hypocrite.

Oh dear, I had hoped that logic would prevail over insults. You may be right about regular claims linking weather events to climate change. Not all can be blamed on CO2, but everything is related. Many of those stories are initiated by the media, who need to create interest and controversy. Are you just tired of hearing uncomfortable news?

Yes I am a hypocrite for flying my plane for fun. (I have used less than 2000 litres of fuel in the last ten years. That's half a litre per day. A fraction of the energy use of many sports- and probably less than what many third-world people burn in their motorcycles.)

 

Yes, you are right about leaders using up a lot of resources globe-trotting. Perhaps that's the price of getting something done.