Camit engines - anyone got one?

[jetjr]

Well hardly stopped raining for around 5 months so been in shed a lot, but done 30-40 hrs

 

Being only legal in private, non LSA aircraft, the number and hour count is likely to be slower.

 

Had a few little problems but with install and ancillaries not engine itself

 

 

[David Isaac]

Well hardly stopped raining for around 5 months so been in shed a lot, but done 30-40 hrsBeing only legal in private, non LSA aircraft, the number and hour count is likely to be slower.

Had a few little problems but with install and ancillaries not engine itself

where are you located jetjr?

 

 

[Oscar]

About the only parts in a current-spec. CAE engine that don't have changes from a Jabiru engine, are - I think - the rods and the oil pump. CAE engines have the benefit of many, many years of research and design improvement, done with facilities and competence considerably better than Jabiru itself can bring to the problem, and HUGE experience - because CAMit was making, assembling, testing and delivering more than 5,000 Jabiru-spec. engines.

 

Neither CAMit nor Jabiru - and for that matter, practically anybody in the Aviation Industry - contributes to this site. There is a reason for that, and for that reason, I will also not be bothered to contribute what I know.. However, for those wishing to gain information regarding the developments that CAE engines have made, I suggest contacting Ian Bent directly. He can be found at: CAMit Aero Engines: Home of the CAE 2200 & 3300 engines + accessories

 

 

[JohnC]

I emailed Ian at Camit with a several questions a couple of days ago and awaiting his reply, however I am 90% sure at this stage I will be ordering a Camit 3300 within the next few weeks if I get positive feedback, however I would like to hear from someone who had one of the first Camit engines and get their independent opinion of the engine in real world operation simply for piece of mind. Everything I have heard so far from Camit and others appears to be positive and they certainly appear to have addressed the many problems with the Jabiru engine.

 

I would personally disregard any rumors from the Jabiru camp for obvious "conflict of interest / commercial competition" reasons, and if Camit get the reliability issues sorted with this engine design they, in my opinion, will have a world class / leader of an engine. Please keep the comments and information coming.

 

 

[Downunder]

John, Bathawk Aircraft are using the Camit in their factory aircraft. Might be worth contacting them. Surveillance & Conservation Aircraft | Bat Hawk - Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) | Micro Aviation South Africa

 

 

[JohnC]

John, Bathawk Aircraft are using the Camit in their factory aircraft. Might be worth contacting them. Surveillance & Conservation Aircraft | Bat Hawk - Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) | Micro Aviation South Africa

Thanks for the link i will email them for their opinion and experiences to date.

 

 

[DCM]

About 86 hours on my 3300. So far all good almost no oil use still some sorting to do with CHT . 21-22 litres an hour@2850 rpm happy as .

 

David

 

 

[JohnC]

Dear all, thanks for the replies and responses. Detailed below is an email trail from a Camit user with over 100 engines sold/used and one engine with nearly 2000 hours - the contents are factual and self explanatory, 10 out of 10 for Camit. This, and a discussion today with a delighted UK Camit engine owner (over 100 trouble free hours), has given me the confidence to proceed with the purchase of the Camit engine.

 

I like to use fact based information to draw conclusions and speaking to two independent individuals in different corners of the world with "real world" experience couldn't be better - the www is a good thing.

 

In Jabirus defense designing, building, certifying and marketing an aero engine is a mammoth task and no small achievement that they deserve credit for, and my opinion of the Jabiru range of aircraft and J400 aircraft hast changed - it is the best light sport 4 seat on the market. However Jabiru need to accept they have made / are making mistakes with this engine (they are only human like everyone else) and start the modification process quickly, maybe with Camit's help?

 

Thanks again to everyone who commented and replied.

 

From: John Cherry [mailto:[email protected]]

 

Sent: 29 September 2016 06:09 PM

 

To: [email protected]

 

Subject: Camit Aero Engines

 

Dear Sir/madam,

 

I was given your name that you may be able to provide feedback as a user of Camit engines, I am considering purchasing a Camit 3300 and would like your general opinion of the Camit engine and any issues you may have encountered. I believe you are in the minority of organizations that have experience of several Camit engines now clocking up many hours.

 

I brief reply will suffice and I thank you in advance for your assistance.

 

Best Regards

 

John Cherry

 

From: Bat Hawk [mailto:[email protected]]

 

Sent: 29 September 2016 03:05

 

To: 'John Cherry' <[email protected]>

 

Subject: RE: Camit Aero Engines

 

Good day John,

 

We have installed over a hundred Camit 3300 SLRE engines into our Bat Hawk aircraft and have only praise for them. We had problems with one engine early on , due to overheating. That problem was resoved and since then, they are all running like a dream. We used to use Jabiru engines, but had to stop using them because of all the “ engine-outs” we were experiencing. Our Bat Hawk aircraft was starting to get a bad name because of the “s - - -“ Jabiru engine. Since we moved to Camit all our engine problems ceased. Our Camit powered Bat Hawk with the highest engine hours is now just under 2000 hours, and is still going like a bomb. The Camit engine is so much cheaper to purchase and operate than the Rotax option.

 

We are very happy with the Camit engines we’ve installed , and can highly recommend them. Check out our website : www.bathawk.co.za You will also find a lot of happy customers on Facebook. Look for Bat Hawk.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Andrew

 

Andrew Pappas

 

Micro Aviation SA

 

Cell 082 338 9848

 

Fax 086 659 4672

 

From: John Cherry [mailto:[email protected]]

 

Sent: 29 September 2016 09:33 PM

 

To: 'Bat Hawk'

 

Subject: RE: Camit Aero Engines

 

Dear Andrew,

 

Thank you for your prompt reply and your “real world” experience of the Camit engine, I must also add this is exactly what I wanted hear.

 

May I ask if you would have any objections to me posting this email on a forum and forwarding this email to friends and associates considering replacing their Jab engines with Camit engines?

 

Thanks again and happy flying.

 

Regards

 

John

 

From: Bat Hawk [mailto:[email protected]]

 

Sent: 29 September 2016 04:51

 

To: 'John Cherry' <[email protected]>

 

Subject: RE: Camit Aero Engines

 

Hi John,

 

I wouldn’t mind at all if you want to advise to your friends and associates about the very successful new Camit SLRE engines. There are many, many changes that have been done to make this new Camit engine so reliable. They run very much cooler than the old Jabiru used to. There is no more pistons breaking off at the oil ring groove, no more head crushing, no more hydraulic lifter problems, no more dropping of valves, no more fly-wheels coming loose, Camit engines have new barrels with a much larger “footprint” flange and much larger cooling fins, for improved cooling. There are a lot of very successful internal mods as well. Camit have also developed a “ high heat” engine for us that we use in very high ambient temp areas. You cant go wrong with a Camit SLRE engine. We really trust and believe in them.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Andrew

 

Andrew Pappas

 

Micro Aviation SA

 

Cell 082 338 9848

 

Fax 086 659 4672

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well thats a pretty impressive endorsement...thanks for the info JohnC. I am in the market myself for a 120 to 130hp engine and have been looking at the Camit in the list. They are made only 50km from where I am now so I might have to arrange a visit to the factory sooner rather than later

 

 

[JohnC]

Well thats a pretty impressive endorsement...thanks for the info JohnC. I am in the market myself for a 120 to 130hp engine and have been looking at the Camit in the list. They are made only 50km from where I am now so I might have to arrange a visit to the factory sooner rather than later

Unfortunately they are aprox 20,000km from my airfield - some guys get all the luck.

 

 

[Oscar]

Unfortunately they are aprox 20,000km from my airfield - some guys get all the luck.

John, the Sonex Jab./CAMit thread on Yahoo also report many happy Sonex owners of CAMit engines.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Mark. A phone call to Ian an a visit to the factory is extremely worthwhile. I did both when I was looking and if you are that close give yourself a couple of hours and do it. You wont be disappointed.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Geoff

 

I cant do it today as we are heading back to Burp in an hour or so but will be back up on the 20th so will organise it for that trip.

 

 

[Oscar]

John: just in on the Sonex 'Jab/CAMit engines' thread, responding to a question about upgrading to CAMit rockers:

 

2b

 

Re: Camit Rocker Upgrade

 

Tue Oct 4, 2016 3:39 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

 

kevin_k814

 

Hi Nick,

 

I bought a set a couple years ago. Here's a few things I noticed, and my opinions:

 

Above rocker shaft there is an oil hole to allow oil to flow directly to the bushing shaft interface, with grooves in the bushing to distribute oil throughout, and constantly flush the bushing/shaft with oil, instead of the original style where the ends are oily and some works its way in from the side. The stock setup doesn't refresh this oil, and oil deposits/wear material just tend to sit in there embedding into the rocker bushing (I carefully examined my old ones under magnification. The stock setup should last well over 1000 hours, but this is a definite improvement in design which should greatly reduce wear further.

 

The geometry of valve actuation is different. Stock rockers when pressing on a valve push in, but also push the stem down against the bottom of the valve guide as it's going in. The improved geometry puts less side load on the stem as it presses it in, reducing valve guide wear, along with reduced wear at the rocker/valve stem interface (valve stem tips are hardened, so the main wear reduction is to the rocker and guide).

 

Valve adjustment is much much easier. Instead of the big clunky nut that you can barely fit a wrench on, there's a smaller nut that fits a box end wrench (spanner?) very well, and instead of a slot end adjusting screw, it used an allen (hex) wrench. No more tightening and loosening the lock nut as it moves the screw out of pisition. Simply hold the allen wrench in one hand, and tighten the nut with the other. No fussy readjustments, and it takes me about 10 seconds per valve. Usually though, they don't need adjusted, just checked.

 

I've gotten a few parts from Camit, and it seems if you look close enough when comparing it to the old part there are subtle little changes. Several of which seemed very clever, liked the improved oil pump assembly that helps reduce leaks with a squiggly little groove that directs any wayward oil to the cam/case opening, and other things that I don't necessarily feel comfortable talking about publicly, in case it would undermine Camit by giving free ideas to the competition.

 

Hopefully others will add to this or correct me if I was wrong on anything. I also wouldn't hesitate to talk with Camit directly. I think you can trust what they tell you, and aren't just trying to sell you stuff you don't need. Two years ago they spent a lot of time, effort, and materials to help me out when my Jab had a problem and Jabiru ignored me. I wasn't a Camit customer, and I basically just went complaining to them. It was humbling how much they were willing to help a customer of a different brand, and I can honestly say in my 49 years on this planet, Camit is head and shoulders above any company I have ever dealt with in regards to integrity and customer service.

 

I'm hoping to get a lot more years out of my Jab, but when it needs replaced, there's no doubt who I'll be calling.

 

Kevin K.

 

Sonex 3300

 

Cincinnati, USA

 

 

[Yenn]

doesn't Camit still build the engines for Jabiru?

 

 

[jetjr]

Yes new ones, but assemble to Jabiru spec and using their supplied parts - the parts that CAE dont make themselves.

 

Id doubt Jabiru selling many new engines in last year or two.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Yes new ones, but assemble to Jabiru spec and using their supplied parts - the parts that CAE dont make themselves.Id doubt Jabiru selling many new engines in last year or two.

It would be really useful to know how many new jab engines and how many camits there are in the field since if there are very low numbers of either or both then it's really hard to know whether any or either of their improvements are actually of any benefit.

 

 

[Oscar]

Jw, the CAMit-plated engines have been undergoing continual development for a number of years - I was at the factory three years ago when the first CAE-plated 3300 was being crated up for delivery to the USA, and I know that there have been developments since then - the new flywheel and shaft mods for the attachment being one of those. So - not all CAE engines are exactly similar, though the ASTM-certified ones used in the Bathawks will be. I'd guess at about 200 at least CAE-plated engines 'out there', with (as reported by the Bathawk manufacturer, at least ONE with 2K hours on it and merrily flying along). Quite a few more 'bitzers' - including my own - with significant CAE mods incorporated but NOT CAE-plated: 'experimental' by definition.

 

No idea of the number of 'new-spec.' Jab. engines 'out there'.

 

 

[JEM]

Anyone know how the Jabiru 2210 engine is coming along?

 

 

[jetjr]

It only runs 4 head bolts and I did hear this needed attention - anyone know facts?

 

 

[Oscar]

It only runs 4 head bolts and I did hear this needed attention - anyone know facts?

Machining to the basic barrels and heads for that engine was done by an aero-engine manufacturing facility nearby in Bundaberg for additional head bolts, coming up from underneath the heads. If you look carefully at the pictures Jabiru released on their Facebook page of the engine, you can see the reliefs in the barrel bases for the holes for those.. Jabiru Aircraft Bundaberg - Timeline | Facebook

 

 

[ave8rr]

CAE engine S/N up to 130 for 3300 and S/N 30 for 2200. This as of a week or so back. Employees say things are very quiet.

 

 

[Oscar]

CAE engine S/N up to 130 for 3300 and S/N 30 for 2200. This as of a week or so back. Employees say things are very quiet.

AHA - good info. Less than I thought; I suspect there are quite a few that Ian has allowed (and supported) to be built (like mine) using a mix of low-hour Jab. parts. with CAMit mods, for reasons of economy for the owners. Absolutely not fair to CAMit to ask for a CAE plate for those..

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Actually 130 for the 6 cylc is pretty good I would have thought. I know it has taken UL quite a bit of time to get their engine numbers up. Last I heard they only had around 300 engines done in total and thats with a lot of advertising world wide

 

 

[JohnC]

Dear All, thanks for the additional replies and information, I am currently in the process of ordering a new Camit 3300 and we (Ian Bent & I) are working to ensure we get the best options for my aircraft - this could be a long process as I can be "a bit finicky and a pain in the a****", however I'm a believer of do your research and put the time in at the start and save a lot of heartache and time later down the road.

 

Everything I have read and heard independently from Camit owners is 100% positive and I now have no doubt that Camit have addressed and sorted all of the weaknesses with this engine, I have also looked at other engine manufactures but my opinion is the Camit comes out way on top.

 

Jabiru engines are having a tough time in the UK at present as failures are becoming regularly reported in the flying clubs, its a shame as this engine is an excellent design and just needs a little more development and improvement. The Camit engine is definitely the better of the two in my opinion as Camit have carried extensive R&D and 100+ modifications as problems have appeared, unfortunately Jabiru have their hands tied-up with certification and red tape, Camit don't.

 

I have decided to replace the complete engine and all auxiliaries simply for piece of mind and to achieve what I want - a super-reliable completely new package.