facthunter Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 That was always on the cards. Very unfortunate nevertheless. I wouldn't be rushing into putting 912's into your Jabs though. It's a lot of money and you could easily overcapitalise the package as well as weight added to the Four cylinder Jab engined models. We shoot ourselves in the foot again. Shades of Victa. I can't imagine anyone tooling up to revitalise the scene. I doubt the business model would add up. IF the "Stiff" solution survives it's parts retro fit. A defining moment for Jabiru owners. A consortium by agreement with the liquidators might arrange for a PILE of CAMit parts to be produced as a spares resource, before it's not possible, but it will take a bit of get off your bum activity by some people with foresight. Nev
tillmanr Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Anyone have a number for Dick Smith or someone of that financial status who might assist an Australian aviation cause? 1 1
facthunter Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 He just disposed of his much loved Cessna Citation because of the massive cost of fitting ADSB and other requirements, so I doubt he will be interested. Don't let me discourage you though. Nev
Old Koreelah Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 I was told today NOT by the article that The receivers moved in at 1 pm today and all keys and assets were handed over to the receivers. That was from someone who was actually onsite Let's hope the bean counters realise that the major assets include Ian and his team. 1
Aldo Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Anyone have a number for Dick Smith or someone of that financial status who might assist an Australian aviation cause? Dick Smith is about Dick Smith and nobody else good sales pitch but no real substance
Aldo Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Time to see if that lycoming O-235 will fit in the Jab, PG Aviation has a solution as far as I'm aware, I'm due for an engine in a couple of hundred hours. Aldo 1
waraton Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 My thoughts and best wishes go to everyone who has lost with this deal at CAMit. There are no winners here. I have dealt with staff from the office, floor and have spoken with Ian direct on several occasions. Without exception I found them to be helpful, professional and patient and I am so sorry for the loss of this dedicated team who gave the CAMit factory life, this extends to their families. Beyond this I am lost for words except to add that I am sure my sentiment is shared across many horizons. If you know a member of that team personally please extend a shared thanks and a sincere best wish for their future. 3 5 4
Kyle Communications Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 107kg for the 100hp version...way too heavy 1
Aldo Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 107kg for the 100hp version...way too heavy Kyle If that was for me PG have done a couple of conversions 114 kg for the 125 hp they seem to have it working I will let you know. Aldo
Downunder Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 KyleIf that was for me PG have done a couple of conversions 114 kg for the 125 hp they seem to have it working I will let you know. Aldo I was going to say, you won't probably get below 100KG's but an engine can be built with plenty of HP at that weight. Lots of lightweight cylinders and parts now coming out in the US. Get rid of the mags for full electronic ignition (SDS) etc,,, Your Back-Country Aircraft Speci 96.6KG dry..... 115HP Lycoming YO-233-LSA Engine ACE Long Ez gets new R379 and finds new home. | Ace Performance 113.3Kg @ 220 HP !! 1
Jaba-who Posted October 10, 2016 Author Posted October 10, 2016 Bit of a contradiction there stating that someone else's small example is not relevant while your similarly small example is.I was actually born with one eye, what's your excuse? That was my point. My small sample is distinctly different to your small so neither is valid.
Jaba-who Posted October 10, 2016 Author Posted October 10, 2016 Jw - not trying to pick any fight here!The 'rules' for testing, do not require running flat bikkies for three days. More power to Jabiru if they have done that - as a test for their own satisfaction. BUT: the test regime has been developed as a test for use in real life conditions - and NO engine runs for three days 'flat bikkies'. A typical flight pattern is: start-up - warm up - taxi out - full power/max revs. for Vy climb for maybe 5 minutes - cruise power for a period - descent power for 5 minutes or so - taxi -in - shut off. It's not just running at max. revs. It's also about thermal loading conditions, load, period of transition through difficult harmonics etc. Just spinning an engine at max. revs does not replicate all of those. I have spent quite a bit of time over four years in development of an engine Test Cell to meet the test requirements and it is exponentially more complicated than just a frame to bolt an engine to and have it run. This is no 'dig' at Jabiru - but it's not properly representative of the test requirement to simply state that: 'we've run the engine flat bikkies for three days.' Not taken as a fight. No, I didn't say (or at least didn't mean it to sound as though i said it that way) that it was part of the rules. I meant that's what Rod Stiff said they did. Someone else here said there were lots of rules about running it through various parameters. So I said (or meant) apart from whatever rules they were obliged to do, Rod Stiff told us they had run it flat bikkies for 3 days. Whatever other RPMs and stuff they did, he did not elaborate.
Jaba-who Posted October 10, 2016 Author Posted October 10, 2016 Evidence says your in the minority JWBest argument Jab owners had was they are cheap to fix, not that they don't have issues Many more problems with hydraulic lifters versions, now admitted by Jabiru, now all fixed they say. Yet they wont be able to sell fixed engine (or parts) but an all new model What about thousands with one of older versions that isn't fixed, maybe now can't get parts. If you think Jabiru's changes list is longer than CAE, then you don't have CAE list. Yep thats what I said. As I said - I got a written list from Jabiru and a verbal list from Ian Bent.The written list had more changes than the verbal list. I made the assumption that the fact is was verbal gave leeway for there to be others he'd forgotten, so I stated " I make an assumption" they were probably about the same. This was said in response to someone who said said Jabiru have made few or no changes. So my answer was merely to point out the error in that original statement of Jabiru doing no development. Then someone else again said Camit made many changes and Jabiru made none. I responded I was given a list from both and the Jabiru list had more changes on it. I didn't think I'd have to go back and restate all the background and provisos again..... obviously I did. 1
bexrbetter Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Too soon to make prognostications. Lets say absolute min 50K per month wages for the production of apparently aprox 10 engines per month, before any other costs, worse if they don't own the factory, the math doesn't add up just on that before you bother with details.. 2 1
DrZoos Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 What a shame for all owners and the industry. CASA really needs to shoulder some significant blame here... 2
RKW Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 What a shame for all owners and the industry. CASA really needs to shoulder some significant blame here... From Casa's perspective, mission accomplished. 3
Aldo Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 What a shame for all owners and the industry. CASA really needs to shoulder some significant blame here... Zoos There are plenty of people who frequent this site and are or were members of RAA who can shoulder as much if not more blame than CASA, CASA acted on a lot of that information flawed as it may have been. Their incessant complaining and winging has eventually led to the demise of one business that may well have been able to help Jabiru (not that Jabiru were rushing to engage his help). Aldo 6
ave8rr Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Lets say absolute min 50K per month wages for the production of apparently aprox 10 engines per month, before any other costs, worse if they don't own the factory, the math doesn't add up just on that before you bother with details.. Last few weeks, wages approx 30k per week. 2.5 - 3.0 engines per week plus a few parts for Jabiru. Little or no parts production by the plant machinists for past month due stock on the shelves awaiting sales/assy. I am told plant was offered to Jabiru some time back but rejected.
jetjr Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Aldo is right, now many customers with complaints have no choices but to front up and spend a heap more money with people they complained about. Wish I had a dollar for every person who said they were definitely buying a CAE engine when the time came. Maybe 10-15 on Friday alone. Just got several OEM approvals from Bathawk, Sonex and some others, new manuals and products just a few weeks ago. 1 1
Gnarly Gnu Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 I hope Bex will buy the operation and get it chugging along again to make the Bexmotor. Sad time for Ian, his family, employees and of course any creditors. I think this engine had all the hallmarks of being the best currently out there. Ian is indisputably very knowledgeable in this field, it's a serious loss to the whole industry. Meanwhile not a single person at CASA has lost even a dollar of their generous pay. 1 2
Deskpilot Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Reported this morning in an overseas forum, Camit have closed their doors and are no longer trading. What the repercussions are likely to be for Jabiru is anyone's guess.
ave8rr Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 Sad time for Ian, his family, employees and of course any creditors. I think this engine had all the hallmarks of being the best currently out there. Ian is indisputably very knowledgeable in this field, it's a serious loss to the whole industry. Meanwhile not a single person at CASA has lost even a dollar of their generous pay. I dont believe CASA had alot to do with this. They were doing their job in my opinion. The problem was Jabiru believing there was nothing wrong with the current engine/s. Camit trying to improve the product and succeding. Jabiru wanting no part if it and moving to another supplier probably cheaper but appears some time before being released. Camit getting minimal orders from Jab for the 3300 and Camits 3300 still getting a name for itself in the field. Costs mount up and now we have the outcome we shouldnt of had. Loose loose all round. 4 1
jetjr Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 If CASA had taken a different path and not damaged the engines name so badly, sales numbers would not be so low Jabiru should receive most of the blame for sure and owners who have supported them are to be the biggest loosers 1
Kyle Communications Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 Jabiru started looking at new supplier of parts and development 4 years ago so it was always Jabiru's plan to give CAMit the flick 2
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