Where can I buy Dzus fasteners?

[Kyle Communications]

There are also these typeshttp://www.aviaquip.com.au/pdf/Publish/qturnfasteners.PDF

I prefer these to Dzus, they are a more hardy type of fastener, can be flush (flat blade or Phillips) or wingnut types, and are retained in the panel on removal.

They are CamLocks that what I have just used on my new cowl

 

 

[rankamateur]

They are CamLocks that what I have just used on my new cowl

Are they the same as the ones around the hatch under the fuselage? I have to try and come up with one more retaining tooth washer for one of mine, only seven were supplied.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Yes the same as those...ASAP aircraft spares up here has them

 

 

[kgwilson]

Well a 3/32 rivet goes into a hole made with a 3/32 drill because you can't actually buy 3/32 rivets unless you import them from the US. Then you need a No 40 drill. The fact is that a 3/32 rivet is 2.38mm whereas 3/32 drill is normally 2.4mm. So a 3/32 drill is .02mm bigger than a 3/32 rivet so you don't need a No 40 drill. I have just installed about a thousand of them with a 3/32 P&N drill & they are a really good snug fit.

 

 

[Oscar]

There are also these typeshttp://www.aviaquip.com.au/pdf/Publish/qturnfasteners.PDF

I prefer these to Dzus, they are a more hardy type of fastener, can be flush (flat blade or Phillips) or wingnut types, and are retained in the panel on removal.

Aviaquip have ceased supplying most general aviation products including just about all hardware lines, which is a bloody nuisance..

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Well a 3/32 rivet goes into a hole made with a 3/32 drill because you can't actually buy 3/32 rivets unless you import them from the US. Then you need a No 40 drill. The fact is that a 3/32 rivet is 2.38mm whereas 3/32 drill is normally 2.4mm. So a 3/32 drill is .02mm bigger than a 3/32 rivet so you don't need a No 40 drill. I have just installed about a thousand of them with a 3/32 P&N drill & they are a really good snug fit.

At the risk of being invited to join bexrbetter's pedant's association - no, a 3/32 drill is normally 3/32 (0.0938") not 2.4mm (0.0945") although the difference is less than a thou, so is minute. You can, of course use a 2.4mm drill for 3/32 rivets but it is not correct practice and results in rivets that are likely to loosen and work or rattle over time, black smudges can appear from the rivet hole and eventually the rivet will wear through and fall out.

 

There is a very good reason why the correct drill size should be used for rivets, and it's not just because it's a convenient Number size. The Number 40 drill is 0.098" which is a full 5 thou larger than the rivet. 5 thou might not sound like much but if you drill holes of the two sizes you will see they are very markedly different from each other - in fact the number 40 is fully 10% larger in cross-section. This size difference is so large that it encourages many people not to use such a large drill, and note that the Number 41 drill is 3 thou larger than 3/32 - so why don't they specify the Number 41 drill rather than the Number 40?

 

The reason has to do with how the pop rivets do their job. It's very important that the shaft part of the rivet expands by just the right amount before the blind end of the rivet begins to collapse upon itself and form the large end prior to the mandrel snapping off. This is particularly relevant with aluminium blind rivets because they are made from a 5056 alloy which work hardens, so as the shaft of the rivet expands to fit the larger hole it also work hardens the rivet. Properly fitted this way you then end up with tight fitting and hardened rivets which are unlikely to become loose and rattle and wear out later on.

 

So - it's not just a matter of using a drill that is just a bit bigger than the rivet, you really must use the right size drill, especially for critical applications like aircraft. And note that the same is true for solid rivets which are set by impact, the impacts expand and work harden the rivet, if the hole is too small and doesn't allow the rivet to expand then it cannot work harden.

 

 

[kgwilson]

I agree with you HITC but there are minimum & maximum engineering tolerances & for 3/32 rivets the minimum hole size is 0.093 interestingly smaller than the rivet diameter to a maximum of 0.103.

 

 

[rankamateur]

the minimum hole size is 0.093 interestingly smaller than the rivet diameter.

And that my friend, is why god created hammers, while we are discussing engineering standards!

 

 

[M61A1]

Well a 3/32 rivet goes into a hole made with a 3/32 drill because you can't actually buy 3/32 rivets unless you import them from the US. Then you need a No 40 drill. The fact is that a 3/32 rivet is 2.38mm whereas 3/32 drill is normally 2.4mm. So a 3/32 drill is .02mm bigger than a 3/32 rivet so you don't need a No 40 drill. I have just installed about a thousand of them with a 3/32 P&N drill & they are a really good snug fit.

I guess all my drills must not be that type, I have a lot of 3/32 drills in different configurations, and I can never get a 3/32 rivet in a 3/32 hole without forcing it.

If your 3/32 rivets do actually fit in a 3/32 hole, and the drill size is accurate, I would be looking at the drilling technique. I was supervising a young fella, who was a volunteer on a museum static display, who, no matter how many times I verbally pulled him up for drilling crooked then rotating the wrist as the drill passed through, to enlarge the hole, he still kept on unconsciously doing it. You could damn near get a 1/8 rivet through a #40 hole after that technique.

 

 

[M61A1]

And that my friend, is why god created hammers, while we are discussing engineering standards!

And that is why you find rivets bent over like nails, and bulging joints.

 

 

[BLA82]

I buy all mine for my racecar from the states. Www.rtschassis.com. Parr motorsports on eBay is another seller in Aus

 

 

[kgwilson]

I knew I'd seen it in some documentation but could not remember where until I looked on the box the rivets came in. As I said I use a 3/32 (2.38mm) drill for 3/32 rivets & the rivets always fit. I drill straight holes & use a hydro/pneumatic rivetter. See attached

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

I knew I'd seen it in some documentation but could not remember where until I looked on the box the rivets came in. As I said I use a 3/32 (2.38mm) drill for 3/32 rivets & the rivets always fit. I drill straight holes & use a hydro/pneumatic rivetter. See attached[ATTACH=full]27832[/ATTACH]

That's true enough - if you're using Macsim it really doesn't matter much what size you drill the hole because their rivets are 5052 alloy and they don't work harden very much at all. They're really only made for the building industry.

 

Also, if you're using Macsim's you may experience a lot of failures (well I did when I tried them anyway) where the mandrel snaps off before the rivet has pulled properly tight and/or the back of the rivet splits rather than mushrooms ...

 

I think it's worth considering the amount of work and money you put into assembling a kit and I really would recommend that you use a better quality rivet. Bremick's are an inexpensive alternative, they're only a few dollars more per thousand and as well as 5052 they also make a 5056 alloy which is approx 50% higher in both tensile and shear strengths, fatigue strength endurance is about 20% higher and they do work harden as you set them.

 

 

[M61A1]

I knew I'd seen it in some documentation but could not remember where until I looked on the box the rivets came in. As I said I use a 3/32 (2.38mm) drill for 3/32 rivets & the rivets always fit. I drill straight holes & use a hydro/pneumatic rivetter. See attached[ATTACH=full]27832[/ATTACH]

All making sense now.....I've been talking about solid and cherrylock rivets.