GA BFR/AFR - requirements

[Keenaviator]

I spoke to a local GA / RAAus instructor about a bi annual flight review the other day. He said that for a GA review he had to sight my current medical (understandably) AND a current ASIC card. This second requirement came as a surprise to me considering we would be flying at a non RPT airfield. I thought the ASIC relates to airport security and is only required if operating at an airport that has RPT. Secondly I would have thought that if an ASIC was required, being in company with an ASIC holder would satisfy this legislation. Am I missing something? Laurie.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I think the instructor is missing something.

 

 

[Camel]

Common sense and a brain, a puppet.

 

 

[djpacro]

...This second requirement came as a surprise to me considering we would be flying at a non RPT airfield. .....

Did you ask that instructor?Flight crew need either an AVID or an ASIC to exercise the privileges of their licence.

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_90101

 

Depending on the specific airport - all crew at a security controlled airport must display an ASIC - eg at Moorabbin http://www.moorabbinairport.com.au/aviation/safety-and-security/identification

 

The following security measures apply at Moorabbin Airport:

• A valid ASIC must be worn at all times by all persons present on airside at Moorabbin Airport.
   
   
  
• The definition of airside does not extend to hangar areas but does extend to the entire apron and manoeuvring area.
   
   
  
• Passengers being escorted by an ASIC holder, for instance a pilot, are not required to have an ASIC.
   
   
  
• Student pilots are not defined as passengers and must have an ASIC or a VIC.
   
   
  
• The Act and Regulations provides for heavy penalties to apply to any person not wearing an ASIC.
   
   
  

 

 

...................

 

A person not in possession of an ASIC, who is not a passenger on a flight, may be permitted airside at Moorabbin Airport if they are wearing a VIC pass. An example would be ..... a student pilot who has applied for but has not yet been issued with an ASIC, would be required to show and display a VIC pass while on Moorabbin Airport.

 

The terms of the VIC card are that at all times they must be escorted by an ASIC holder whilst airside. IN ALL CASES they must be under escort of an ASIC holder. This also means that a student pilot may not be dispatched on a solo flight until he/she is in possession of an ASIC.

Note that airside means airside so required if you just do a touch and go then depart without getting out of the aeroplane - of course, very low risk of getting caught.Personally, when I do an AFR I don't feel obliged to police the Aviation Security Regs so not interested in seeing an AVID or an ASIC - no mention of it in CASA's CAAP for Flight Reviews and not on their checklist http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/5_81_1.pdf

 

I like to help people by pointing out the security requirements just so they can keep out of trouble - AFP scour Moorabbin every now and then to harass and fine (threatened previously, not sure if it has happened) us.

 

Incidentally, you can do a flight review without holding a current medical.

 

 

[ruffasguts]

Did a ga biannual with no ASIC or current medical u just can't exercise the privileges of your license until u get medical

 

Mick W

 

 

[metalman]

I argued the point about needing an ASIC ,got shown the regs ,to exercise your PPL priveledges you must have an ASIC or AVID, sucks but that's the rules

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_90103

 

 

[Keenaviator]

Thanks fellas for the helpful replies. I can't help feeling a bit cranky about these ASIC things but rules are rules. Looks like I was missing something. Laurie

 

 

[David Isaac]

AVID is cheaper. It last for five years. Many of us can get away with just the AVID.

 

 

[440032]

ASIC IS NOT A CASA THING. Blame/complain to Dept of Infrastructure and etc

 

Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005

 

ASIC/AVID

 

1.08 Security designated authorisations

 

For the definition of security designated authorisation in

 

section 9 of the Act, each of the following authorisations:

 

(a) a flight crew licence;

 

(b) a special pilot licence;

 

6.55 Exercise of privileges of flight crew licences etc

 

(1) A person who holds a security designated authorisation must

 

not perform a duty that is essential to the operation of an

 

aircraft while the aircraft is in Australian territory if the

 

Secretary:

 

(a) has determined that the person has an adverse aviation

 

security status; and

 

(b) has given a copy of the determination to the person.

 

Penalty: 20 penalty units.

 

Note A pilot licence, a flight engineer licence and a special pilot licence

 

are security designated authorisations — see regulation 1.08 and the Act,

 

section 74G.

 

(2) Subject to subregulation (4), a person who is over 18, and

 

holds a security designated authorisation, must not perform a

 

duty that is essential to the operation of an aircraft while the

 

aircraft is in Australian territory unless:

 

(a) his or her aviation security status check is current; or

 

(b) he or she has requested an aviation security status check.

 

(3) For paragraph (2) (a), a person’s aviation security status check

 

is current at a particular time if:

 

(a) it was carried out no more than 5 years before that time; or

 

(b) he or she has requested that a new check be carried out; or

 

© within the previous 2 years, he or she underwent a

 

background check for the issue of an ASIC.

 

 

[davebutler]

Correct me if I am wrong here but as you are doing a BFR with an instructor on board you are not PIC therefore you are not "exercising the privileges of your licence".

 

You are under instruction and therefore the instructor is PIC and must have the current medical and ASIC. Once he has signed your log logbook and you wish to fly solo the game changes.

 

This whole ASIC/AVID thing was knee jerk reaction to show "others" we were doing our bit to prevent terrorism. It is lot of BS that achieves nothing except to keep a few people in a job.

 

 

[David Isaac]

That's a good point David. If your BFR is expired then the instructor is definitely PIC. I'm not so sure if you are still current, it may be argued you are 'in command under supervision' More likely the first in all cases though. Camel or DJP might be able to clarify that.

 

 

[poteroo]

That's a good point David. If your BFR is expired then the instructor is definitely PIC. I'm not so sure if you are still current, it may be argued you are 'in command under supervision' More likely the first in all cases though. Camel or DJP might be able to clarify that.

AFAIK, in RAAus you'd be DUAL in any case for a BFR. In GA, you'd be DUAL in all BFR situations that I'm aware of. You'll only be ICUS if you are a CPL flying with another CPL,(your CP?), or your CFI.

 

 

[Camel]

That's a good point David. If your BFR is expired then the instructor is definitely PIC. I'm not so sure if you are still current, it may be argued you are 'in command under supervision' More likely the first in all cases though. Camel or DJP might be able to clarify that.

The instructor is definitely the PIC during a BFR and any training.

 

In Command Under Supervision (ICUS)

 

means the flight time a co-pilot may log when performing the duties and functions of a pilot in command under the supervision of a pilot in command authorised by the operator of the aircraft for that purpose.

 

Note: Conditions required for ICUS to be credited are listed in CAR 5.40.

 

Dual Flying

 

means flying in an aircraft fitted with fully functioning dual controls for the purpose of receiving flying training from a person who is authorised by the Regulations to give training.

 

Pilot in Command (PIC)

 

means the pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight time.

 

Note: CAR 224 requires that for each flight the operator shall designate one pilot to act as pilot in command..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[djpacro]

I agree poteroo (although I am not 100% familiar with ICUS rules but definitely only for CPLs). CASA's CAAP on flight reviews is worthwhile reading.

 

 

[Yenn]

When I have a Flight Revue, I am pilot in command. I fail to see how any instructor can be in command of my plane while I am flying it.

 

 

[djpacro]

If you are solo ......

 

 

[Roundsounds]

CAAP 5.81, page 15 logging of flight time states a flight review is to be logged as dual. The only time this may change is if it conducted as a proficiency check as part of a commercial operation in such cases ICUS may be appropriate.

 

The only exception to this would be under para 7.5, which allows a flight review to be completed in a single place aeroplane being observed by an appropriately qualified person on the ground.

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/5_81_1.pdf

 

 

[David Isaac]

Thanks Guys, all good info.