Natfly 2014

[Admin]

This has been the first NatFly I haven't been to in 10 years but with having to work in Brisbane at the moment I spent the Easter with the family. Over the years I think it was slowly growing at Narromine and peaked with the first one at Temora but it has gone down hill extremely rapidly since that one and sounds like this one continued the slide. Personally I think it isn't the event itself that is the cause but rather the whole industry still being in turmoil as the cause.

 

We need to fix the industry, get back to the fun of flying, try and reduce the cost of flying somehow and the pressure of having the latest and greatest plastic fantastic...The AUF, now there's an idea, but I am sure there are many ways in which we can all turn the industry around starting with our own mindset and to those whom we talk to. Perhaps these forums are part of the problem

 

 

[M61A1]

If you were managing the Safety Authority, where would you send staff to effectively conduct audits?Winton?, Cunnamulla?, Orroroo?

Training organizations and businesses.

[facthunter]

I wouldn't blame the organisers either. Things ARE in a state of uncertainty moreso than in the past. I think that takes the desire to be there back a bit. We have to consolidate, find out exactly where we are and then move on from there. Flying is not generally a transitory involvement. There is a big commitment usually. Nev

 

 

[Captain]

................ the best way to make sure the event disappears is to bag it every year, even being lower numbers than previous it was still the biggest fly in we have in this country, and if WE support it , it will grow into something really huge ............

Matty,

 

 

 

Who's bagging the event?

 

From what I have read here, those that went have just reported on what they experienced. That is certainly what I did.

 

To not report the facts is to ignore reality and I would argue that RA-Oz does that at its peril if they continue to do just more-of-the-same at Natfly.

 

Was the event as well supported by visiting aircraft & underwing campers as last year (when the weather was much more restrictive in 2013)? No it was not.

 

Was the event as well supported by trade exhibitors as recent years? No it certainly was not.

 

Was the crowd of day visitors down? Yes it was (on the Friday).

 

Should any forum member who attends the event report and discuss this? Yes they should.

 

Is Natfly the biggest Fly-In that is available for RA-OZ members to attend? Probably not any longer, based on numbers attending this year.

 

Was Natfly 2014 as successful as previous years at Temora or the last couple at Narromine. Probably not based on what I saw when I was there on Friday.

 

What will it take for Natfly to grow into something huge, as you say? A high degree of optimism, luck and a good deal of change at all levels (including organisational and political) As Facty indicated in his post #80, the whole scene is not in a good place or the best shape at the moment and Natfly 2014 probably reflected that.

 

 

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[planedriver]

Thanks for the photo's. That looks a work of art and almost chrome-plated.

Did you spot the feather dusted hidden behind the seat?

[metalman]

This has been the first NatFly I haven't been to in 10 years but with having to work in Brisbane at the moment I spent the Easter with the family. Over the years I think it was slowly growing at Narromine and peaked with the first one at Temora but it has gone down hill extremely rapidly since that one and sounds like this one continued the slide. Personally I think it isn't the event itself that is the cause but rather the whole industry still being in turmoil as the cause.We need to fix the industry, get back to the fun of flying, try and reduce the cost of flying somehow and the pressure of having the latest and greatest plastic fantastic...The AUF, now there's an idea, but I am sure there are many ways in which we can all turn the industry around starting with our own mindset and to those whom we talk to. Perhaps these forums are part of the problem

Yep, things are a bit slow around the place, and the cost of flying new aircraft has gone up up up,,,$100 k doesn't really buy much today, once you add avionics and tick a few boxes on the order sheet, that's for factory built , there's still plenty of bargains in the used department and building your own is a really cheap option.

The only budget aircraft on offer there was the quicksilver, a single seater kit is in the mid $20 k inc engine !! Not particularly fast but as we're all discovering "fast is not cheap" there's a lot of planes around that cost less than an average tinny ,the guzzles/skyfoxes, light wings, older jabs are all in the sub 5o grand , not that fast ,and a few limitations, but they a easy to live with and with a bit of tenacity can be flown long distances, cheap flying is still available but not if you have " champagne tastes on a lemonade budget "

 

There's some guys planning a trip to westfly next September , from the east coast, I'm keen in my 80knot aircraft ,it'll be a long and probably tough trip, but it'll be worth it to be flying ,with mates, swapping stories, a cold beer at the end of a long day,,,,,,and ,did I mention flying! Our type of flying ,especially in sub 100kn aircraft is the closest we can get to the pioneers of aviation,,,and I like that,,,,

 

Matty

 

 

[M61A1]

Matty, 

 

Who's bagging the event?

 

From what I have read here, those that went have just reported on what they experienced. That is certainly what I did.

 

To not report the facts is to ignore reality and I would argue that RA-Oz does that at its peril if they continue to do just more-of-the-same at Natfly.

 

Was the event as well supported by visiting aircraft & underwing campers as last year (when the weather was much more restrictive in 2013)? No it was not.

 

Was the event as well supported by trade exhibitors as recent years? No it certainly was not.

 

Was the crowd of day visitors down? Yes it was (on the Friday).

 

Should any forum member who attends the event report and discuss this? Yes they should.

 

Is Natfly the biggest Fly-In that is available for RA-OZ members to attend? Probably not any longer, based on numbers attending this year.

 

Was Natfly 2014 as successful as previous years at Temora or the last couple at Narromine. Probably not based on what I saw when I was there on Friday.

 

What will it take for Natfly to grow into something huge, as you say? A high degree of optimism, luck and a good deal of change at all levels (including organisational and political).

 

 

 

Regards Geoff

I would have to agree. I've been trying to get to one since it moved from Mangalore, finally, the planets aligned and I was able to get there. I hope the others were better, I arrived at 9:00 on Friday and had seen it all twice by lunchtime. The highlights were meeting Maj and the Holbrooke club market stall, they had stuff I could afford.

 

 

[Teckair]

For me it is too far to go and I can not justify the cost in view of the economic uncertainty I see all around us.

 

 

[metalman]

Matty, 

 

Who's bagging the event?

 

From what I have read here, those that went have just reported on what they experienced. That is certainly what I did.

 

To not report the facts is to ignore reality and I would argue that RA-Oz does that at its peril if they continue to do just more-of-the-same at Natfly.

 

Was the event as well supported by visiting aircraft & underwing campers as last year (when the weather was much more restrictive in 2013)? No it was not.

 

Was the event as well supported by trade exhibitors as recent years? No it certainly was not.

 

Was the crowd of day visitors down? Yes it was (on the Friday).

 

Should any forum member who attends the event report and discuss this? Yes they should.

 

Is Natfly the biggest Fly-In that is available for RA-OZ members to attend? Probably not any longer, based on numbers attending this year.

 

Was Natfly 2014 as successful as previous years at Temora or the last couple at Narromine. Probably not based on what I saw when I was there on Friday.

 

What will it take for Natfly to grow into something huge, as you say? A high degree of optimism, luck and a good deal of change at all levels (including organisational and political) As Facty indicated in his post #80, the whole scene is not in a good place or the best shape at the moment and Natfly 2014 probably reflected that.

 

 

 

Regards Geoff

Can't argue with any of that,,,but everytime time someone says ,"RAA is stuffed I'm not going " it spreads like a cancer, sure there's problems but not one single problem you mentioned stopped me or the hundreds of others who went from actually going, and having a great weekend,,,,but focusing on the problems ( or the past) stopped plenty,,,and if pilots boycott the events they will cease to exist,,,I'm not very vocal on the political side of RAA issues , but to sit at home because of that part of it isn't healthy doesn't make sense to me ,especially while there's a serviceable aircraft sitting in a hangar just begging to be flown somewhere.

Discuss the problems all you like ,,,,but be aware that in doing that those discussions will become part of the reason Natfly may fail to exist , or we can all acknowledge there's a problem but still go flying .

 

One of the major differences to the flying scene in the last ten years that has had an effect on this event more than any other ??? This forum( I'm not picking on Ian Baker either) , there have and will always be political problems, but this forum has been responsible for bringing it all out into the light, now that's NOT all bad, it had to be done ,and hopefully we will still be able to have an RAA in the future, but the flip side is that it has been bad for morale, and that will kill this event quicker that a shoddy board member . Maybe a very honest poll on why pilots didn't go, because everything else aside WE ,US ,ALL OF US, make these events worth going to ,,,,and if we don't bother going then we all loose out,,,,,

 

Matty

 

 

[metalman]

For me it is too far to go and I can not justify the cost in view of the economic uncertainty I see all around us.

How far is too far,,,my costs for the weekend would've been about $400 ,from Coldstream in Melbourne including food and a bottle of jamesons,,,,,if I'd stayed at home the I would've spent that much in bunnings ,and would've been sitting here with a sore back instead of a buzz from a good weekend flying

I get what your saying but there will always be reasons NOT to do things,,,,,,

 

Matty

 

 

[metalman]

I didn't take a lot of pics but here's a couple

 

 

 

 

 

[SDQDI]

Can't argue with any of that,,,but everytime time someone says ,"RAA is stuffed I'm not going " it spreads like a cancer, sure there's problems but not one single problem you mentioned stopped me or the hundreds of others who went from actually going, and having a great weekend,,,,but focusing on the problems ( or the past) stopped plenty,,,and if pilots boycott the events they will cease to exist,,,I'm not very vocal on the political side of RAA issues , but to sit at home because of that part of it isn't healthy doesn't make sense to me ,especially while there's a serviceable aircraft sitting in a hangar just begging to be flown somewhere.Discuss the problems all you like ,,,,but be aware that in doing that those discussions will become part of the reason Natfly may fail to exist , or we can all acknowledge there's a problem but still go flying .

One of the major differences to the flying scene in the last ten years that has had an effect on this event more than any other ??? This forum( I'm not picking on Ian Baker either) , there have and will always be political problems, but this forum has been responsible for bringing it all out into the light, now that's NOT all bad, it had to be done ,and hopefully we will still be able to have an RAA in the future, but the flip side is that it has been bad for morale, and that will kill this event quicker that a shoddy board member . Maybe a very honest poll on why pilots didn't go, because everything else aside WE ,US ,ALL OF US, make these events worth going to ,,,,and if we don't bother going then we all loose out,,,,,

 

Matty

I agree Matty we don't need a self fulfilling prophecy, it's a fine line between constructively talking about things and destructing things by talking about them. We need to know where we have to improve but the doom and gloom gets a bit depressing after a while.

 

 

[Teckair]

How far is too far,,,my costs for the weekend would've been about $400 ,from Coldstream in Melbourne including food and a bottle of jamesons,,,,,if I'd stayed at home the I would've spent that much in bunnings ,and would've been sitting here with a sore back instead of a buzz from a good weekend flyingI get what your saying but there will always be reasons NOT to do things,,,,,,

Matty

I don't know, probably about 1300 nm. I did not spend $400 at Bunnings or anywhere else. I was just saying the reason why I did not go which was not Casa, RAAus, negative stuff, this forum or any other reason. You may well find that I am not the only one. Positive thinking is great but realistic is also important.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

There is a lot on at Easter, nearly every town has a festival of some sort. The music fest at Deniliquin sounded pretty good. In the end my programme was veg out on Friday, local flying on Saturday including a sit in a new Bristell, off on the motorbikes with my wife on Sunday, home maintenance on Monday. I reckon I had a better Easter than if I had gone to Temora, having been twice before. If I was single I would have gone, but Easter is too big a holiday in the annual calendar be doing something alone. There isn't enough in Temora for the spouse after she has been once, unless she is also an aviation tragic. Maybe we will go next year, if there is the promise of new machines to look at.

 

I think the difference a few years ago was that there were lots of new models of aircraft coming out, now there's little that is new.

 

 

[alf jessup]

IMO the RAA is not stuffed as it allows me to pursue the passion in me to fly, and at a cheaper cost that it would be for GA.

 

Yes we are going through some changes and not everyone will be happy, yes me myself have been annoyed at the drama it was to get my plane into my name considering I put everything in that was required, annoyed once again that I had to submit more photos again this year for rego renewal (same photos sent as last year) then to find out later that my planes MGW had been reduced to 450KG and rego wasn't going to be renewed until I put the new placard on.

 

Did I cuss hell yeah I did, did I moan too right but what did I do? I sent once again more stuff and finally got it done as this is my passion that I am prepared to go outside the realms of sanity to pursue.

 

We as humans in general don't like change and some of this change is B*^$hit I agree, we can voice an opinion and hopefully win but boycotting your annual fly in for the sake of whatever you don't like about our organisation is just plain garbage and to me it is like your wanting this organization to fail and then what??? more P & Moaning that all our privileges have been taken away

 

Life these days have evolved and progressed from the old days and that is including everything in your everyday life in the modern world not just flying.

 

How many of us baby boomers hated computers when they came out? I for one did but now would I like going back to the old days without them? nope, how many of us listened to our parents as kids on what not to do only to find out later with our own that mum & dad were actually on to something.

 

The only time the RAA will be stuffed is if it folds or CASA shuts us down for having such a poor accident record and a poor attitude from its members regarding the rules & regulations we are supposed to abide by under the CASA umbrella, and then my friends it will be a sad day at least for me.

 

WE are the RAA and we have privileges other countries would love to have.

 

Semi rant over

 

Alf

 

 

[rankamateur]

there's still plenty of bargains in the used department and building your own is a really cheap option.

keep looking at the bargains in the used department, I bought most of my kit and extras before/as the exchange rates were diving and there will be no change out of 70,000, after putting in four or five hundred enjoyable hours I doubt I could get my money back, so I would have worked for nothing for the new buyer if I was to sell. That is probrably the first time in the last ten years were this has been the case. Only solution keep it and fly it and love every minute.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I was getting positive stories all weekend, together with the facts that attendance was down; there is nothing wrong with telling the truthy.

 

The result of lying about it which Mat seems to be asking people to do is a devastating avalanche of criticism from people who attended expecting a Narromine style event, the sort of thing that happens when you buy anything which has been puffed up wit false advertising.

 

The GFC occurred about seven years ago, certainly a lot of aircraft are hung up with registration issues, and an unusually high number of people seemed to be concerned about CASA ramp checks, which indicates that they need to do some retraining, or ensure they get the training they missed when doing their PC, but that adds up to a few hundred, not thousands.

 

What was missing was information - information from the board members and in particular motivation from the president who got himself elected as a consultant to big organizations. Where were the people entrusted with organising the event? I didn't see anyone asking the members what they wanted, so that little clique doing things their own way may also contributed to the situation.

 

I do a lot of research work in the transport industry and we have marketing conditions similar to the 1960's and early '70's where you really have to innovate to get business because people are living on tighter budgets.

 

The transport industry is loosely divided between companies which are making losses because they haven't adapted and those taking over other companies and making hundreds of millions who have.

 

Marketing based on accurate research is they key.

 

The International Truck and Trailer Exhibition in Melbourne took over from the Brisbane Truck Show this year as Australia's biggest truck exposition, and the main difference was management.

 

Rather than trying to bully the people who are just telling it like it is, it would be more productive to look at ways of attracting more people......and that doesn't involve the mindless repetition of wanting it "at my place"

 

 

[metalman]

I was getting positive stories all weekend, together with the facts that attendance was down; there is nothing wrong with telling the truthy.The result of lying about it which Mat seems to be asking people to do is a devastating avalanche of criticism from people who attended expecting a Narromine style event, the sort of thing that happens when you buy anything which has been puffed up wit false advertising.

The GFC occurred about seven years ago, certainly a lot of aircraft are hung up with registration issues, and an unusually high number of people seemed to be concerned about CASA ramp checks, which indicates that they need to do some retraining, or ensure they get the training they missed when doing their PC, but that adds up to a few hundred, not thousands.

 

What was missing was information - information from the board members and in particular motivation from the president who got himself elected as a consultant to big organizations. Where were the people entrusted with organising the event? I didn't see anyone asking the members what they wanted, so that little clique doing things their own way may also contributed to the situation.

 

I do a lot of research work in the transport industry and we have marketing conditions similar to the 1960's and early '70's where you really have to innovate to get business because people are living on tighter budgets.

 

The transport industry is loosely divided between companies which are making losses because they haven't adapted and those taking over other companies and making hundreds of millions who have.

 

Marketing based on accurate research is they key.

 

The International Truck and Trailer Exhibition in Melbourne took over from the Brisbane Truck Show this year as Australia's biggest truck exposition, and the main difference was management.

 

Rather than trying to bully the people who are just telling it like it is, it would be more productive to look at ways of attracting more people......and that doesn't involve the mindless repetition of wanting it "at my place"

I'm am neither trying to get people to lie or being a bully,,,,just saying that just because things aren't all rosey isn't a reason to miss out on what was a good event ,

(Edited by moderator)

 

 

[geoffreywh]

I got back yesterday ( Sunday) afternoon. The best bit about the whole event was the flight there! Full of expectation of having a great time. That quickly changed when I arrived. I took pics. and, having looked at them I see that there are no people in them. I did enjoy what I saw but that took about 2 hours...............CASA was there , in abundance, tagging people as they arrived. I saw heated discussions with them around the camp site. I'm glad I didn't get stopped as my VNC was 2 months or so out of date! ( I counted 20 aircraft in the camping area!) The RAA tent was full of volunteers , A Great Turnout. Well Done... I was able to borrow a phone from a lovely lady as Vodophone has NO COVERAGE...The grub on sale was "A" for effort "D" for quality and content. You could have egg and bacon for breakfast or bacon and egg....Pizza for tea, or then again you could have had pizza ........One Coffee shop had really good Latte' for 4 bucks. As for the future? I wont bother to go again. The exhibitions were mainly for 140 thousand dollar imports. For all intents and purposes GA aircraft...... Catering for PPL holders or those that had a PPL and no medical?... LOTS of old guys, like me. The view was of a sea of grey heads...( This is not fact but opinion ). Home builders/Amateur builders were very thin on the ground I believe...On Saturday there were more public than fliers.............. I spent a lot of time at the Rotec tent explaining the intricaties of fitting a Throttle body to anybody that would listen...I liked the Camit tent, Looks VERY professional kit , only for 19 reg though.....Bolly was good too. Although they had nothing for me. The best was the flying displays. Matt Hall an absolute winner.......

 

 

[MrH]

I went and had a good time, met up with Ross Millard and his wife, made some new friends & enjoyed the air shows. The Spitfire just sounds great & looks beautiful. Matt Hall was sensational on the Saturday, as was his forum.

 

Yes numbers were down, a LOT less underwing campers and number of campers in general. As others have mentioned there were quite a few people with young families, that was great to see.

 

Regular big name distributers were there but not much else to rummage through and spend dollars on. Not even a pilot shop. I would hate to see the event disappear so I'll still support it next year.

 

Here are some pictures.

 

Cheers

 

H

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MrH]

Some more pictures

 

H

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MrH]

and a few more

 

H

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Admin]

Not even a pilot shop.Cheers

H

I will be back again next year with the Clear Prop shop in full swing

 

 

[kgwilson]

I didn't go because my aircraft is not flying yet. I plan to be there next year. A couple of people from Grafton that I know actually drove down & that takes a whole lot more time than flying, but then you can't fit the whole family in your RA plane.

 

Garry Morgan made a couple of comments on another thread that a lot of owners don't own PLBs & so didn't go, possibly for fear of being caught out but often fly more than 50NM from their home aerodrome. Apparently there was quite a lot of GA aircraft there. He also didn't see any CASA people checking anyone, though I'm sure they did. I agree with Rod Birrell in the last mag about the validity of ramp checks.

 

Are PLBs compulsory for GA aircraft flying more that 50 NM from home? If not why not? I will certainly be getting a PLB with GPS . I never had one before when flying GA but that was a few years ago.

 

Garry also said "a lot of people are staying away, new faces were seen this year". Another reason is maybe not everyone wants to go every year anyway. I found that after flying in to Warbirds over Wanaka one year I found I didn't really want to go back the next year. It was a 1400km trip from Hamilton where I was based so distance was an issue & so was cost but it was also a bit of been there done that, I'd like to go somewhere else. I'd love to go back again now though.

 

The Natfly website was useless if you couldn't go. Webcam from 2012 WTF? Maybe they didn't want to feel embarrassed by showing very little.

 

Did anyone attend the GM? How many members attended?

 

Thanks for posting the photos MrH

 

 

[Powerin]

I'm glad I didn't get stopped as my VNC was 2 months or so out of date!

I know it's a minor thing, but it begs the question...if it is a legal requirement to carry a current VNC for the flight you were doing, why did you fly without one?

And "Because I thought I could get away with it" is a perfectly valid and honest answer. We all do it from time to time I guess. However, the more I hear and read about the opposition to ramp checks at Natfly, the more I think that there's an uncomfortable amount of pilots trying to get away with stuff.