Natfly 2014

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Gyro Nats just completed at wondai Qld, great turn up, casa chaps there for 3 days, mixing in with the lads, offering good advice to all queries, Rob and Zane were well received, even handed out some casa caps to pilots, I scored one."Checks" were conducted randomly, no " moments" at all.......why some angst as some folks here post, bewilders me.

I saw Rob doing laps in a gyro, Zane preferred terra firma. ( work in progress )

Now that should quieten the RAMP check brigade. What a joke. I bet many of them jumped in their car compliant or not over Easter with the enormous police presence without a thought. Some people will use any excuse to see the glass half empty.

 

 

[Stevo3k]

Just remember that some of the meetings that have happened and have delved into what's happening (or not!) in our organisation have happened because forums like this are a mechanism for getting people to look critically at what is happening and behaviours of elected members and paid employees.Its not that I agree with all negative posts, but realistically if you look at happenings for the last 5years then I'm very pleased to have people posting positive and negative things about our organisation and the means to do something about them. Without these forums I very much wonder if we'd still exist or if we did what the future would hold for us. what other form of timely and 2 sided communications exist to us as members? magazine....hardly timely and certainly not 2 sided when the organisation always has the last say on the matter.....

 

I still do not understand why we don't have regular email updates from the organisation. It costs nothing but time and its then up to the members if they want to be informed or just ignore.....

 

Andy

G'day Andy,

I totally agree with you on that. My post was more directed at the people just folding there arms and saying bugger it, I'm in the shits with what's happening so I'm not going to Natfly and I'm gunna tell everyone it's not worth going and stuff everyone.. As it has been said before, that attitude rubs off and pretty soon we will have no fly-in to either go to or whinge about. I have concerns about many things regarding our organisation. That being said why let that get in the way of a great weekend. Just enjoy it for what it is and support it..

 

 

[Stevo3k]

I don't post much because there's a lot of negativity on this forum. For what this thread should have been, check out the other 'Natfly 2014 Video' post instead.Ak

Will do mate!!

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

All the folk on here who either have their heads in the sand or have only been to one Natfly are the ones giving me the sh*ts!

 

I have been to a number of them now both at Narromine and Temora. The first one at Temora was by far the best. If you have only been to one, you have nothing to compare it to. Im glad you all had a ball! Thats great!

 

I would like to think I have offered enough constructive suggestions and have actually offered my time to organise sections of the event as have others on here and its as if the organisers are trying to stop others helping so they can look like the heroes? Im sorry but its BS!

 

If you continue to sugar coat sh*t, it is never going to get better!

 

I admit I have had a great social time when I have gone. I can do that here sitting at home on a Forum. If I am going to drive 9 hours and spend hundreds of dollars to get and stay there, and have offered to help and its been sniggered at, im well with in my rights to be a little put out! I expect an event that suits some of what I am looking for. I know not everyone is a builder and that is fine. Every year we are promised next year will be better, we are sorry for this year, dont know why non of the suppliers turned up, blah blah blah...

 

We will never please every member with regards to location. Temora town have bent over backwards to provide a first class airport and have really supported the event. Its blo*dy RAA who continue to let the members down with this event! Move it around the country, I dont care. Its the content of the event that would bring me. I drive 9 hours to Temora so im happy to go any direction.

 

Dont dismiss what the regulars who have been attending for years have to say. If you put your head in the sand for ever, there wont be an event very soon, kind of like what you are accusing us of doing?

 

Scotty

 

 

[metalman]

All the folk on here who either have their heads in the sand or have only been to one Natfly are the ones giving me the sh*ts!I have been to a number of them now both at Narromine and Temora. The first one at Temora was by far the best. If you have only been to one, you have nothing to compare it to. Im glad you all had a ball! Thats great!

 

I would like to think I have offered enough constructive suggestions and have actually offered my time to organise sections of the event as have others on here and its as if the organisers are trying to stop others helping so they can look like the heroes? Im sorry but its BS!

 

If you continue to sugar coat sh*t, it is never going to get better!

 

I admit I have had a great social time when I have gone. I can do that here sitting at home on a Forum. If I am going to drive 9 hours and spend hundreds of dollars to get and stay there, and have offered to help and its been sniggered at, im well with in my rights to be a little put out! I expect an event that suits some of what I am looking for. I know not everyone is a builder and that is fine. Every year we are promised next year will be better, we are sorry for this year, dont know why non of the suppliers turned up, blah blah blah...

 

We will never please every member with regards to location. Temora town have bent over backwards to provide a first class airport and have really supported the event. Its blo*dy RAA who continue to let the members down with this event! Move it around the country, I dont care. Its the content of the event that would bring me. I drive 9 hours to Temora so im happy to go any direction.

 

Dont dismiss what the regulars who have been attending for years have to say. If you put your head in the sand for ever, there wont be an event very soon, kind of like what you are accusing us of doing?

 

Scotty

I've been every second year since the event went to Temora,,,does that give me the right to have a opinion, no one is saying there isn't problems but if we get the sh*ts and stay home it will fold anyway,

Matty

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

I've been every second year since the event went to Temora,,,does that give me the right to have a opinion, no one is saying there isn't problems but if we get the sh*ts and stay home it will fold anyway,Matty

Matty...dont get defensive. It wasnt addressed directly at you. Continuing to coat it in sugar and going is not solving the issues.

Scotty

 

 

[spacesailor]

Must be Me!, didn't go this time as I had overseas visitors to show around, so was too far away to do my own thing, Cant even get to Mudgee either.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Stevo3k]

Don't think my head is in the sand? Camped under the wing of the old 172 at mangalore with my Dad in the 80's and been going to air shows and fly- ins ever since..Been involved with aviation since my earliest memories. Not trying to dismiss anyone's views. Just saying the negatives are not doing anything good.. I had a great weekend. Sorry to anyone that takes offence at the fact I enjoyed myself. I promise to NOT enjoy the next RA Aus event I attend. I will write a report on how the organisers failed us. Will that please the masses??

 

 

[alf jessup]

Bubbleboy,

 

Maybe your seeing it like a new girlfriend or wife. you start off thinking its the best thing ever first time then over time it becomes less interesting and mundane and you just end up going with the flow.

 

I bet when I get to finally go to one (when the planets finally line up and the Kennedy's don't become gun shy and my roster lines up) I will probably love it, after a few more I might think the same as you are, life in general promises us great things and once you start off big it is hard to keep it that way.

 

I can see your frustration at offering suggestions only to be snubbed at, people in high places of so called power and position who think they know better than the rest is only in their eyes, but I am betting a lot of effort goes in from them to making this happen.

 

I had run a regular QB Microlight fly in at our local airport for a number of years and a lot of effort went in to that at some expenses of my own which I gladly put forward to make people who attended feel it was worth the effort to attend.

 

First few years it was the best thing since sliced bread to some of those who attended, to me every year was brilliant but the numbers dwindled to the regulars that had the same passion as me.

 

To be honest the socialising and making new friends was the best part for me and the flying component was a bonus, some years we had great weather and others it was dismal but we still all got together & still do even if we get limited hours in the air.

 

Sad fact is that no matter what the organisers do it will not please everyone but others will be chuffed and if you start of with the biggest and the best there is only one way forward and that is down as it is hard to stay on top.

 

And to me spending hundreds of dollars to go would be worth every cent just to look at some planes but more so meet you guys in person rather than on a computer screen.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

...and the bleeding hearters continue! No one is saying they had a crap time when they went. We have established that it is a great social catch up and I agree. I was even in Camp David the first year.

 

Carol pulled something out of her hat that year with what she put on. I dont know what has happened since then but if any one thinks that subsequent Natflys after the first one at Temora were equally attended by visitors and exhibitors, your delusional. It is supposed to be RAA's annual showcase. Its dying! If you cant see that, we have no hope. I recall Steve Runciman standing at the members meeting 3 years ago? and stated that Natfly that year was on a decline. He promised he would get to the bottom of why many suppliers didnt turn up. Has anything been resolved by RAA to get that answer? I havent seen it and it has been a lessor event each year since. I know we are never going to have an Oshkosh here but we can do better!

 

Please tell me as I wasnt there this year. Could I have purchased an instrument or say an AN bolt or a Nicopress sleeve or cable to make a control system? I doubt it very much. I know Ian and the Clear Prop shop wasnt there this year for family reasons. He was the only stall that came close to providing that sort of thing the last 2 years I went. The first year at Temora the "Sky Shop" was there with a bus load of goodies. He looked like he did a good trade. Why wasnt something like that there? Is he the only aircraft hardware supplier in Australia?

 

Scotty

 

 

[Stevo3k]

Bubbleboy,Maybe your seeing it like a new girlfriend or wife. you start off thinking its the best thing ever first time then over time it becomes less interesting and mundane and you just end up going with the flow.

 

I bet when I get to finally go to one (when the planets finally line up and the Kennedy's don't become gun shy and my roster lines up) I will probably love it, after a few more I might think the same as you are, life in general promises us great things and once you start of big it is hard to keep it that way.

 

I can see your frustration at offering suggestions only to be snubbed at, people in high places of so called power and position who know better than the rest in their eyes but I am betting a lot of effort goes in to making this happen, I had run a regular QB Microlight fly in at our local airport for a number of years and a lot of effort went in to that at some expenses of my own which I gladly put forward to make people who attended feel it was worth the effort to attend.

 

First few years it was the best thing since sliced bread to some of those who attended, to me every year was brilliant but the numbers dwindled to the regulars that had the same passion as me.

 

To be honest the socialising and making new friends was the best part for me and the flying component was a bonus, some years we had great weather and others it was dismal but we still all got together & still do even if we get limited hours in the air.

 

Sad fact is that no matter what the organisers do it will not please everyone but others will be chuffed and if you start of with the biggest and the best there is only one way forward and that is down as it is hard to stay on top.

 

And to me spending hundreds of dollars to go would be worth every cent just to look at some planes but more so meet you guys in person rather than on a computer screen.

 

Cheers

 

Alf[/quo

...and the bleeding hearters continue! No one is saying they had a crap time when they went. We have established that it is a great social catch up and I agree. I was even in Camp David the first year.Carol pulled something out of her hat that year with what she put on. I dont know what has happened since then but if any one thinks that subsequent Natflys after the first one at Temora were equally attended by visitors and exhibitors, your delusional. It is supposed to be RAA's annual showcase. Its dying! If you cant see that, we have no hope. I recall Steve Runciman standing at the members meeting 3 years ago? and stated that Natfly that year was on a decline. He promised he would get to the bottom of why many suppliers didnt turn up. Has anything been resolved by RAA to get that answer? I havent seen it and it has been a lessor event each year since. I know we are never going to have an Oshkosh here but we can do better!

 

Please tell me as I wasnt there this year. Could I have purchased an instrument or say an AN bolt or a Nicopress sleeve or cable to make a control system? I doubt it very much. I know Ian and the Clear Prop shop wasnt there this year for family reasons. He was the only stall that came close to providing that sort of thing the last 2 years I went. The first year at Temora the "Sky Shop" was there with a bus load of goodies. He looked like he did a good trade. Why wasnt something like that there? Is he the only aircraft hardware supplier in Australia?

 

Scotty

Mate, I think you have missed what was being said.

Not trying to compare with other years. If you don't want to support it don't.. It's up to the individual. I was just saying its a shame that people feel the need to run it down. That doesn't seem to be moving forward. You say don't dismiss others then you shitcan other peoples opinons.. You say we are the bleeding hearters. Did you not read your first post? What's your story. Just a keyboard hero or just a shit stirrer? Either way I'll play....

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Oh Stevo....dont get your knickers in a knot. I see you have been on here just a few months. Anyone who has been around here a few years knows me and I cant be bothered sh*t stirring or playing games. There are enough trolls on here. I call it how it is. Diplomacy is not my forte.

 

I find it difficult to sit back and watch things implode. I can see im wasting my time here. I will let you guys carry on in peace...over and out!

 

 

[Stevo3k]

Oh Stevo....dont get your knickers in a knot. I see you have been on here just a few months. Anyone who has been around here a few years knows me and I cant be bothered sh*t stirring or playing games. There are enough trolls on here. I call it how it is. Diplomacy is not my forte.I find it difficult to sit back and watch things implode. I can see im wasting my time here. I will let you guys carry on in peace...over and out!

Or come on mate..

No knickers in knots.. Anyway, checked out you website..

 

Fantastic!! I see you are a modeller as well. We have a very active club here.. Hard to time to fit it all in.good luck with the rest of the build. Will be a beautiful aircraft when finished!!

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Thanks mate! Yes the build is consuming a lot of time at the moment and its starting to look like a plane now! Its a good feeling seeing it sitting in the garage. I am a keen modeller too but actually havent flown models for nearly 2 years. I cant fit in building a real plane, keeping wife and kids happy, upsetting forumites AND build models!

 

Where abouts is Robinvale?

 

 

[Stevo3k]

Thanks mate! Yes the build is consuming a lot of time at the moment and its starting to look like a plane now! Its a good feeling seeing it sitting in the garage. I am a keen modeller too but actually havent flown models for nearly 2 years. I cant fit in building a real plane, keeping wife and kids happy, upsetting forumites AND build models!Where abouts is Robinvale?

Would be a great feeling seeing all the work come together. Robinvale is on the Murray river on the vic side. Close to Mildura. Quite a small town. Not much in the way of full size action. Plenty in Mildura though.

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Would be a great feeling seeing all the work come together. Robinvale is on the Murray river on the vic side. Close to Mildura. Quite a small town. Not much in the way of full size action. Plenty in Mildura though.

Ok cool. The wife is a Mexican. Around Myrtleford way. Anyway we better stop hijacking the thread! Let folk get back to talking Natfly.

 

 

[Stevo3k]

Ok cool. The wife is a Mexican. Around Myrtleford way. Anyway we better stop hijacking the thread! Let folk get back to talking Natfly.

True that!!

Good night!!!

 

 

[Keith Page]

Good Morning Bubbleboy

 

I see you are into the history of Narromne/Temora move.

 

This is all pre me taking an interest in the RAAus life.

 

I will be doing more research regarding this issue and have some history verified..

 

To start :- The board gave an undertaking to the Narromine council Natfly would stay there and develop. I have discovered this system was working well and people were very happy and others were having the "Lets go next year" syndrome happening when they discovered there mates had a good time. Things were ticking over very grandly at Narromine. This is a case why fix when it it is not broken.

 

Next: Along came some board members who thought Temora would be a good idea so they canvassed all and sundry and even had contracts drawn up to lock it into Temora.

 

This is a case of Temora is big and grand and wonderful and in my back yard ---- so this bunch did all the lobbying to get to Temora.. Now they are there.

 

As I see that move, it is that move which has split the board, the membership and all the moral.

 

What next? We can see that Temora is not working that is a reliable observation: Natfly is going down hill.. OR.. The board can eat humble pie and go back to Narromine.

 

I can asure you this noise was not going on when Natfly left Narromine.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Fly-ins won't die out, they may change! The big effort for little result may just indicate that the effort could be better directed. I bet Ron and Leonie Creed put a lot into Old Station Fly-in too but it just gets better and better, and not a museum in sight.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Does anyone here shop online, at their own pace, in the comfort of their own loungeroom, studying well maintained websites for up to date information in great detail? How can suppliers compete with that out in the sunshine and dust in a crowded tent. Maybe they are recognising that they can spend their time and dollar better to reach their customers with the the information the customers require.

 

 

[Admin]

Good Morning BubbleboyI see you are into the history of Narromne/Temora move.

 

This is all pre me taking an interest in the RAAus life.

 

I will be doing more research regarding this issue and have some history verified..

 

To start :- The board gave an undertaking to the Narromine council Natfly would stay there and develop. I have discovered this system was working well and people were very happy and others were having the "Lets go next year" syndrome happening when they discovered there mates had a good time. Things were ticking over very grandly at Narromine. This is a case why fix when it it is not broken.

 

Next: Along came some board members who thought Temora would be a good idea so they canvassed all and sundry and even had contracts drawn up to lock it into Temora.

 

This is a case of Temora is big and grand and wonderful and in my back yard ---- so this bunch did all the lobbying to get to Temora.. Now they are there.

 

As I see that move, it is that move which has split the board, the membership and all the moral.

 

What next? We can see that Temora is not working that is a reliable observation: Natfly is going down hill.. OR.. The board can eat humble pie and go back to Narromine.

 

I can asure you this noise was not going on when Natfly left Narromine.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page.

Keith, in an attempt to improve NatFly, the board put it out to tender which gave all councils/airfields the chance to put in what they could do to assist and improve the site event. Narromine didn't respond (they ended up responding only after the tenders closed and awarded to Temora) but Temora was the best tender not only providing a great aviation equipped airfield but wasn't that far away from Narromine plus they were also going to pay RAUS $20,000 to hold it there. In the end the board could only go on the Tenders they received and whether it was right or wrong at the time only hindsight could decide that...i think

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Hi Keith...its very easy to point the finger at individuals or groups, as I have at the RAA. Me personally, its not the location that is important. Its the building of RAA for future generations. I have always been vocal about the need to actively get the younger generations involved. RAA cant seem to see that. People have commented before about the average age of our members.

 

Narromine was great and the first one at Temora was great. Both have good facilities. Should we move Natfly around the country? Other than the logistical factors and cost, maybe we need to look at that. Bring the show to the people to give everyone a fair go. As you have pointed out and I agree, something is not working at the moment. Its not a complete disaster yet but heading that way. As an organisation we need to get to the bottom of why suppliers are not attending and fix that for a start.

 

My comments last night may have been a bit aggresive but im passionate about flying and want to see Natfly and the sport grow in a positive way. Internal politics really gets my backup! Nothing peeves me more than people doing things for their own benefit and not for the greater.

 

Scotty

 

Good Morning BubbleboyI see you are into the history of Narromne/Temora move.

 

This is all pre me taking an interest in the RAAus life.

 

I will be doing more research regarding this issue and have some history verified..

 

To start :- The board gave an undertaking to the Narromine council Natfly would stay there and develop. I have discovered this system was working well and people were very happy and others were having the "Lets go next year" syndrome happening when they discovered there mates had a good time. Things were ticking over very grandly at Narromine. This is a case why fix when it it is not broken.

 

Next: Along came some board members who thought Temora would be a good idea so they canvassed all and sundry and even had contracts drawn up to lock it into Temora.

 

This is a case of Temora is big and grand and wonderful and in my back yard ---- so this bunch did all the lobbying to get to Temora.. Now they are there.

 

As I see that move, it is that move which has split the board, the membership and all the moral.

 

What next? We can see that Temora is not working that is a reliable observation: Natfly is going down hill.. OR.. The board can eat humble pie and go back to Narromine.

 

I can asure you this noise was not going on when Natfly left Narromine.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page.

[Keith Page]

Keith, in an attempt to improve NatFly, the board put it out to tender which gave all councils/airfields the chance to put in what they could do to assist and improve the site event. Narromine didn't respond (they ended up responding only after the tenders closed and awarded to Temora) but Temora was the best tender not only providing a great aviation equipped airfield but wasn't that far away from Narromine plus they were also going to pay RAUS $20,000 to hold it there. In the end the board could only go on the Tenders they received and whether it was right or wrong at the time only hindsight could decide that...i think

Could have been a case for " Highest tender not necessarily accepted" looks like just for a short term gain.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page

 

 

[alf jessup]

Hi Keith...its very easy to point the finger at individuals or groups, as I have at the RAA. Me personally, its not the location that is important. Its the building of RAA for future generations. I have always been vocal about the need to actively get the younger generations involved. RAA cant seem to see that. People have commented before about the average age of our members.Narromine was great and the first one at Temora was great. Both have good facilities. Should we move Natfly around the country? Other than the logistical factors and cost, maybe we need to look at that. Bring the show to the people to give everyone a fair go. As you have pointed out and I agree, something is not working at the moment. Its not a complete disaster yet but heading that way. As an organisation we need to get to the bottom of why suppliers are not attending and fix that for a start.

 

My comments last night may have been a bit aggresive but im passionate about flying and want to see Natfly and the sport grow in a positive way. Internal politics really gets my backup! Nothing peeves me more than people doing things for their own benefit and not for the greater.

 

Scotty

I agree Scotty that it should be moved around the country to allow others far and wide to attend, obviously people from other states attend at a great cost and why not should they have one in their state, it would open up opportunities for people who have never hear of this event to attend in their state.

 

I am guessing logistically it would be a nightmare for the organisers & suppliers darting around the country but it would open up opportunities for new business.

 

A very valid point from a fellow passionate aviator.

 

Alf

 

 

[Captain]

I have attended a number of the Narromine Natflys and all at Temora and have been trying to determine what is the difference.

 

 

 

Have tried to capture those as below and would be interested to hear what others think about these, or any other issues that you feel are key points:

 

 

1. Locations in Oz - Temora & Narromine are near enough to each other to be considered roughly equivalent.
    
    
   
2. Aero Club Facilities - Much better at Narromine.
    
    
   
3. Aero Club Involvement - Much better at Narromine. The Temora Aero Club building seems to be open but they don't seem to really be involved and welcoming. Perhaps just interested to sell some grog. Whereas the Narromine Aero Club was always much more friendly & really become part of Natfly (or more latterly AusFly).
    
    
   
4. The airport itself - Temora is better although there is nothing really wrong with Narromine (except perhaps for the burr issue on the grass strips/taxiways at Narromine).
    
    
   
5. Overnight parking/underwing camping - Much better at Narromine being right out front and with good tie-down cables. At Narromine you always felt part of the action while sitting under your wing, whereas at Temora you are tucked around the back and sort of "Out of sight/Out of mind.
    
    
   
6. Day visitor parking - Equivalent at both locations.
    
    
   
7. Exhibitor areas and exhibitor access to taxiways - Better at Temora.
    
    
   
8. Camping area for visitors that drive - Roughly the same at each although possibly larger at Temora.
    
    
   
9. Other attractions on airport - Better at Temora with the Museum on site.
    
    
   
10. Aircraft fuelling - Better at Temora. It always rankled with me when the price went up substantially at Narromine just before the event, and that was done by one of our own schools. In the end it looked like blatant gouging.
     
     
    
11. The town - Roughly equivalent and about the same distance from the airport.
     
     
    
12. Food - Probably equivalent at both and not brilliant by vendors at either (most think that stale bread and a bit of cheap steak cooked an hour or two ago is a meal if you add some semi-cold cooked onion) although Narromine Aero Club meals were better than anything at Temora.
     
     
    
13. Hangars for seminars and meetings - Maybe similar but probably better at Temora, although the hangar/eating area behind the aero club at Temora is grotty and ordinary.
     
     
    
14. The weather - Roughly equivalent.
     
     
    
15. The proposal to support Natfly - Temora was a clear winner and Narromine appeared to take it for granted.
     
     
    

 

 

CONCLUSION - So unless someone else can identify another core or key issue, the big difference for me is the location of the under wing/overnight camping/parking and the terrific involvement of the Narromine Aero Club and their great facilities. Both are substantial issues for the atmosphere/amenity of the event in my view.

 

 

 

Would love to hear what others think.

 

 

 

Regards Geoff