RPL Announced (again)

[DonRamsay]

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100191/rr61_rpl_fs.pdf

 

Some interesting comments in this "brochure" if you read it carefully. For example there is a line that reads "A Pilot Certificate is equivalent to an RPL". Strange idea how they can be considered equal unless they are planning to extend the same privileges to RA-Aus Pilot Cert holders like MTOW 1,500 kg and access to a CTA endorsement.

 

With the RPL "Recreational Navigation Endorsement", which will allow you to go beyond the 25 NM mark, you will need "at least two hours dual instrument time of which at least one hour is instrument flight time". It goes on to say that your Pilot Cert Nav endo carries over " . . . if you meet the minimum flight times". One presumes that would include the "Instrument time". Not much Instrument time done by Pilot Cert holders.

 

Also interesting that this medical is referred to in the brochure as a "recreational aviation medical practitioner's certificate". I wonder if it is going to be a medical that somebody can actually pass that might have a reason for attempting it?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I also says this

 

 

 

[frank marriott]

What it doesn't say is that the only flying schools approved to issue the new licence will have to be approved under the new part 141 so there will be some delays involved in getting that approval - some suggestion (from CASA) it could take 1 to 2 years for all the approvals to come through.

 

I wouldn't attempt to explain what happens if the GFPT is cancelled but the school can't issue a RPL - maybe just continue training through to the PPL????????

 

Maybe more to come out before September?

 

 

[coljones]

snip snip snipAlso interesting that this medical is referred to in the brochure as a "recreational aviation medical practitioner's certificate". I wonder if it is going to be a medical that somebody can actually pass that might have a reason for attempting it?

I think the brochures have been prepared by a marketing person or a journalist (ex newsLtd perhaps) - a bit short on facts and depth.

I am not quite sure what your question is but my experience is that my Class 2 medical cost me over $1500 and 4 months of time. My DL medical cost $50 and the only time cost was the 28 days that CASA let my APPROVED DL medical sit on the table before they sent out the acknowledgment.

 

I enjoy tootling around with only one passenger but I might have to get serious about a Class 2 so I can take 3 passengers and 4 cases of plonk. It will be a carefully considered route and I will certainly not recommend my last DAME - he was a waste of space.

 

 

[metalman]

Another interesting point, it looks like you won't need an AOC to teach some design features or activities( aeros, tailwheel) or an instructors rating, just an approved PMI, that was the talk last year when this was "going to be law from 4sept" ,unless of course the law maker couldn't organise a sh1t fight

 

Matty

 

 

[kgwilson]

Our RPL is now 6 years behind most other countries with more rules than all the others put together so I guess another couple of years & more rules won't make much difference.

 

 

[facthunter]

Australia.... The CLEVER Country.. Didn't you know? The newer version is" If anybody can stuff it up, WE CAN." Nev

 

 

[metalman]

Isn't their slogan "we're not happy till your not happy"

 

 

[djpacro]

CASA's transitional arrangement is that as of 4 Sept, GFPTs have the same privileges as RPL.

 

Another interesting point, it looks like you won't need an AOC to teach some design features or activities( aeros, tailwheel) or an instructors rating ...

Matty, not quite right. You will need one of the new basic instructor ratings on your PPL which is fairly easy to get plus the relevant training endorsements which have to be renewed every two years or so.I know of one flying school which was sued after a fatal spin accident - how much will your insurance be?

And whose aeroplane will you use? Not mine, sorry.

 

 

[metalman]

CASA's transitional arrangement is that as of 4 Sept, GFPTs have the same privileges as RPL.Matty, not quite right. You will need one of the new basic instructor ratings on your PPL which is fairly easy to get plus the relevant training endorsements which have to be renewed every two years or so.

 

I know of one flying school which was sued after a fatal spin accident - how much will your insurance be?

 

And whose aeroplane will you use? Not mine, sorry.

Not considering aeros DP , I may do an RAA instructor rating ,if there's an RAA to instruct with ,that is, and finding someone in the area I trust to do the course with . I know a few guys who are very skilled pilots ,tailwheel among other skills , that GA in this country would do well to have access their abilities, along with being able to do transitional training into experimental types, especially RV's , at the present this kind of training is happening now but under the radar ,I'm not sure how the changes will effect this side of things but it may open the door to this type of training being done in a more structured and safe way,

Matty

 

 

[Keith Page]

Hi Don

 

What you are saying there:-

 

Is that the end of RAAus?

 

Will this be a new face for RAAus?

 

I wonder what RAAus will evolve to.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page..

 

 

[facthunter]

Wouldn't be hard for it to be better than the "other".. Nev

 

 

[DonRamsay]

What you are saying there:-Is that the end of RAAus?

Will this be a new face for RAAus?

 

I wonder what RAAus will evolve to.

Keith, no, I don't think it will be the end of RA-Aus in fact it could be very beneficial to us. If the Pilot Cert and RPL are equivalent then the PC should get access to the SAME endorsements like CTA and to the same MTOW, 1,500 kgs. The sticking point is the over the top medical that CASA is keen to impose to make sure very few people can get access to the RPL.

Col, I'm fairly confident that I could pass a Class2 medical but would have no chance of getting a DL(A) medical. For me to get an RPL, I would have to go via Class2. Surely for your Class2 to cost $1,500 you must have had some issues? Is that what everyone pays for a Class2? (I'm not asking to discuss your private medical details here).

 

 

[frank marriott]

MTOW relates to aircraft registration not licence/certificate.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

With an RPL you can fly up to 1,500 kgs with. Pilot Cert you are limited to 600/650 kgs.

 

 

[frank marriott]

With an RPL you can fly up to 1,500 kgs with. Pilot Cert you are limited to 600/650 kgs.

In a VH registered aircraft ONLY - you can't fly an RAA registered aircraft at all without a RAA certificate (RPL,PPL,CPL, ATPL included)

 

 

[Tiger]

Don,

 

My Class 2 medical don't cost too much. Going back 4 years ago it was $120 for the doctor and $ 75 fort CASA.

 

Two years ago it was $145 for the doctor and $ 75 for CASA.

 

No problems though, just a standard 1 hour medical.

 

 

[DWF]

I am in the process of renewing my Class 2 medical.

 

The cost will be about $1,030.00 !!!!

 

Travel to Perth [1500km round trip] (my DAME here, the only one in town, has handed in his 'badge' due to hassles with CASA) $300

 

Accommodation in Perth $150

 

Stress ECG (I'm getting older and over the 'score') $285

 

DAME examination $220

 

CASA $75

 

If CASA get picky, as they have done for my last 2 medicals, and find something else to query it will mean another trip to Perth and another specialist bill!

 

 

[Yenn]

I am plying with my PPL, but have only a GP's medical. The GP gives me the usual checkout and asks a whole load of questions from CASA. if all is suitable it takes just a few days and you are flying again. I have to do this every year, because I am over 75, but the Qld drivers licence is the same. I have to carry my drivers licence and the CASA waiver whenever I fly, much the same as a drivers licence. Much cheaper flying than with RAAus as no annual rego and membership fees.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Near two years ago I did my Class 2. It can't all be done in-house so I was referred to another 2 clinics for hearing & eye tests. My medical was also conducted over 2 appointments (due to waiting for pathology results & other two clinics). 4 trips of 150km each, fortunately I didn't have to take time off work as I worked it around my shifts. Costs for DAME $135.00, $356.50, hearing $60.00, eye sight $55.40, pathology $184.15, 600km ~ $120, CASA $75 = approx $1,000. Expensive, but as I only see a Doc for a medical every 2 years it is good to do a thorough once over.

 

 

 

I do question CASA Medical (and so does my DAME) with some issues they raised in the past. My optometrist said my eyesight was fine, but, probably based purely on my age, as I could read the finest print without hesitation, CASA mandated reading glasses. A couple medicals before that they assessed me against the ATPL eyesight standard and I ended up taking a week off to fly to Brisbane from far Western Qld to a CASA nominated specialist who told them it was overkill. 4 Months later I had my Class 2 medical back. Then they decided I had to be on Lipitor and I have had a fight with my GP ever since because he says I am not medically indicated to take the stuff. That's an extra cost $70 to take blood for pathology $203.60, $75 for another appointment for results and the argument about being on it every 6 months plus scripts & repeats ~ another $1,400 over 2 years. Pathology has to be no more than a fortnight old and one medical took me three goes to get everything from a remote area down to them.

 

 

 

Now I am getting old .. sheesh ... I really do need reading glasses and my cholesterol is over 4.5 - but my last two medicals went seamlessly. Now there is something to query, no one is interested.

 

Sue

 

 

[coljones]

I am plying with my PPL, but have only a GP's medical. The GP gives me the usual checkout and asks a whole load of questions from CASA. if all is suitable it takes just a few days and you are flying again. I have to do this every year, because I am over 75, but the Qld drivers licence is the same. I have to carry my drivers licence and the CASA waiver whenever I fly, much the same as a drivers licence. Much cheaper flying than with RAAus as no annual rego and membership fees.

CASA has instituted a protocol of responding to a DL (RPL) medical submission within 28 days - and they are taking every minute of it - without explanation. So don't hold your breath.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

So we get back to the fact that a RAMPC will be cheaper and easier to get for a person with none of the disqualifying conditions. However, the loss of privileges that accompany the RAMPC makes me wonder whether many PPLs will bother with it. I think it will be out of reach for most of the RA-Aus grey beards and all the GA refugees who came to RA-Aus because the Class 2 had become out of reach for them.

 

In my view the RAMPC is a perversion of the concept of a Drivers Licence Medical and designed, like most things CASA does, to keep as many pilots on the ground and their planes in the hangar as much as possible.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

I thought this branch of aviation was called RECREATIONAL ? I read here with horror about 1500kgs mtow, RPL's, transponders, aviation medicals , desire for flight in controlled airspace, What the hell is going on? When I got my certificate 8 years ago I thought i was joining up with a bunch of blokes that wanted to fly aeroplanes (WTF does that word come with a red underscore?) as simply as possible , to stay far away from complex regulations. If I had wanted to meet with and socialise with GA pilots I would have joined something else. So why don't you blokes go and form a society for the adoration of G.A. And let Recreational pilots have the enjoyment of flying as unregulated as possible?....................

 

 

[DonRamsay]

I like to think of Aviation as Recreational and Professional. The former should include the bottom end of GA from PPL on down. The "Professionals" are from CPL up and do what they do by extracting $$$ from passengers.

 

The RA-Aus pilots who crave access to or transit through CTA are not looking to get more endorsements on their license/certificate as a matter of status but as a means of safer flying. The case for transit through/past Williamtown and Coffs has been made here already and there are plenty of other places where the same arguments could be effectively used. If a pilot has a reliable aircraft and has had the appropriate training and testing then why should they be excluded from CTA just because CASA are too slow to get off their butts and set it up?

 

Just because I don't want to risk flying into tiger country to get past Coffs Harbour, why should it bother you? Nobody is asking you to fly a factory built aircraft with an approved engine or have a transponder or even a radio or use any of the above. You are perfectly at liberty to fly rag and tube at 500 ft above your own property and never cross a public road if that's what you want to do.

 

How would my having any particular endorsement or desire for an endorsement affect your aviation plans?

 

I'm sorry, but once again I don't get the argument that says RA-Aus pilots asking for or being given permission "X" somehow detracts from those that don't need or want endorsement "X".

 

 

[geoffreywh]

I want to think of recreational aviation as just that and only that. I believe that there is NO PLACE for GA wannabees...... If you and your supporters want G.A. weight aircraft and G.A. privileges than get a PPL and a G.A. aircraft......... Why do you want to change RAA into something different just to suit you? Recreational aviation DOES NOT include the bottom of G.A.-That's just rubbish. ------- G.A. is G.A.-----------Where does it say R.A.A. + G.A.? And it bloody well does affect me and what I want to do. The continuing push for higher MTOW, " in the interests of safety" (Yeah right) I transit Williamstown now, often. Don't know about Coffs , Haven't been there yet. All this "Pushing the envelope " will bring with it more regulations, higher standard of medicals, Age limits? more costs. Blanket ASICS, god forbid........You ARE pushing to change RAA ... If you want more than RAA privileges Then make another association call it " G.A. sub par medical folk." or whatever. Leave Recreational Aviation to Pilot Certificate holders please.