A riveting weekend

[planet47]

Man there is nothing more painful than scraping baked on plastic off aluminium - grrrrh

[planet47]

.......and after removing said plastic I get this

[M61A1]

On 17/11/2020 at 1:38 PM, planet47 said:

Man there is nothing more painful than scraping baked on plastic off aluminium - grrrrh

paint stripper makes it easy.

[Yenn]

A blast from a heat gun will help remove plastic. I have seen where someone stated the plastic coming off, attached small weights and left it to peel off overnight. That was a tip from Kitplanes.

[planet47]

Been there with a heat gun previously. There’s no easy solution to the problem but it’s off now  thankfully (sorry if this text is in bold - it’s not meant to be).

[pylon500]

We're open to ideas to remove plastic from alloy, but often the problem is UV degradation caused, believe it or not, by fluro lighting, which make the plastic brittle and can no longer be peeled off as it just breaks into little pieces.

•Heatguns work to a fashion, but a very narrow temperature is needed between having no effect, to becoming a (hot) sticky goo.

•Thinners and metho do absolutely nothing, except maybe dry the plastic and make it harder.

•Turps will attack the adhesive and will sort of work on very old plastic as it becomes somewhat permeable, but if only 'partially' baked, will only attack the edges.

Going to paint strippers, petrol and the like are not guaranteed, and make an even worse mess sometimes.

I think I remember having some success with 'gunwash' once upon a time...?

 

Meanwhile we're dealing with lots of little fiddly bits;

 

[onetrack]

Pylon500 - I'd rate your problem on a par with removing aged vinyl decals from vehicles - a bugger of a job if there ever was one.

 

However, the website below offers a good range of advice as regards removing old vinyl decals, and I would think this information is probably quite relevant to your problem.

 

I've tried - Windex, razor-blade scrapers, petrol, and citrus-oil-based cleaners - all with varying results. I did not try the heat-gun as suggested, and there may be some advantage with using one of them. The plastic "chizl" scraper is probably a good investment.

 

https://blog.signwarehouse.com/a-basic-guide-to-vinyl-removal-options/

Edited November 25, 2020 by onetrack

[M61A1]

4 hours ago, pylon500 said:

We're open to ideas to remove plastic from alloy, but often the problem is UV degradation caused, believe it or not, by fluro lighting, which make the plastic brittle and can no longer be peeled off as it just breaks into little pieces.

•Heatguns work to a fashion, but a very narrow temperature is needed between having no effect, to becoming a (hot) sticky goo.

•Thinners and metho do absolutely nothing, except maybe dry the plastic and make it harder.

•Turps will attack the adhesive and will sort of work on very old plastic as it becomes somewhat permeable, but if only 'partially' baked, will only attack the edges.

Going to paint strippers, petrol and the like are not guaranteed, and make an even worse mess sometimes.

I think I remember having some success with 'gunwash' once upon a time...?

 

Meanwhile we're dealing with lots of little fiddly bits;

 

Good old Turco or Ardrox strippers Work well. They have become my go to method. Best done in batches..one small part at a time becomes annoying. 

[pylon500]

Progress is slow, but happening.

Just thought I'd throw this in for an update.

 

As you can see from the second photo, space is at a premium.🙁

Edited April 21, 2021 by pylon500

[Old Koreelah]

Does anyone know where I can buy a pop rivet gun that will last longer than a packet of rivets?

I have a collection of over a dozen, all lost their grip (I mightn’t be far behind).

I’ve tried all sorts of brands, from the best known to cheap and nasty, but all have failed me. The latest stopped pulling rivets after less than 100. 

 

Strangely, when this happens, I go thru the discarded ones and one sometimes gets into the mood and actually grips a few rivets, then gives up again.

 

I’ve watched several repair videos in You Tube University, but none has actually explained how to get them to get a grip!

 

One aspect: some packets of rivets are significantly shorter than others.

Perhaps the pin diameter on some is too narrow?

[onetrack]

Old K, I think the major problems with hand riveters, is that the manufacture of virtually every brand of them (including the good U.S. name brands), has been outsourced to China.

 

The problem then is that the jaws do not have the quality (not tool steel), nor the correct hardening, to enable long life.

 

Add in rapid jaw wear, and a buildup of metal particles from the rivet shanks, and the scene is set for a short operating life.

 

None of them are able to be repaired, you can't buy replacement jaws for them, so in reality, they're a throwaway tool and priced accordingly.

 

Maybe this brand will perform a little better? Reputed to be "professional quality" - but that term is used very loosely today, unlike the "old days".

 

https://www.discounttrader.com.au/product/crescent-chr10-premium-hand-riveter/

 

EDIT - Here's the same tool, $10 cheaper! ... https://housetradesupplies.com.au/catalogue-specials-jan-mar-2021/7543-crescent-chr10-crescent-hand-riveter-chr10-9337103016654.html

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by onetrack

[IBob]

Old K, mine are Taiyo Seiko THR-11 from Koyo Industries, still going after 40years.

Japanese, and they still make exactly the same model.

Highly recommended.

Someone else may have to work out how to source them in Oz.

[Marty_d]

Obviously not appropriate if you're only pulling 10 rivets, but my generic air riveter has pulled around 6500 with only occasional unjamming required. 

[facthunter]

Like most tools today they are just $#!T quality usually at "caviar" markups. Nev

[onetrack]

I doubt very much whether iBob's classy Japanese Taiyo Seiko riveter is imported by any company in Australia - simply because they can import Taiwanese and Chinese hand riveters, and make 10 times the profit selling them - while advising customers they're as good as they make today.

 

However, there's a Japanese online seller called Monotaro, who specialise in Japanese-name MRO and industrial products. They have "divisions" of their online selling operation in nearly all Asian countries.

The closest and easiest to Australia is Monotaro Singapore (monotaro.sg), who can supply the Taiyo Seiko hand riveter for SGD$75.99 - which is around AUD$74 - plus shipping cost, which amount you don't find out, until you have put the item in your shopping cart.

 

At around probably nearly 3 times the price of the others, it would want to be good. Unfortunately, I have found that even Japan gets products made in other Asian countries, such as Taiwan and China, so there's no guarantee the Taiyo Seiko hand riveter you buy today, is made in Japan, as it was 40 yrs ago - unless it specifically has "Made in Japan" stamped on it.

 

https://www.monotaro.sg/g/1001408828.html

 

I had a beaut pair of Japanese wire strippers ("Vessel" brand) that I bought in the mid-1970's. After 45 yrs, I managed to break the handle on them. I went looking for a replacement pair and couldn't find them - but I found an exact copy being produced by the Chinese for about 1/4 of the price I paid for the Vessel wire strippers in 1975!

After I purchased the Chinese version, I then found the original for sale on eBay! It wasn't available on eBay when I wanted a pair of them, last year! 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3000A-Automatic-Wire-Stripper-/293947940130?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c1#viTabs

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

8 hours ago, onetrack said:

...The problem then is that the jaws do not have the quality (not tool steel), nor the correct hardening, to enable long life.

 

Add in rapid jaw wear, and a buildup of metal particles from the rivet shanks, and the scene is set for a short operating life....

I suspected as much, 1T.

 

A simple fix has occurred to me: if the “teeth” are worn down enough to prevent the pin being gripped, why not simply grind a poofteenth off the flat face of each jaw? That would at least enable the “gums” of the worn-down teeth to grip the plurry pin. Will try it tomorrow.

 

Meanwhile, thanks for the link; after giving Discount Trader all my personal details three times, I may have ordered that item. Their website looks simple, but lots of others are easier to use.

 

As with too many of these firms, we rural people are forgotten; my small town is apparently a City or Suburb. 

[IBob]

Old K, I wonder if part of the problem might be different mandrel diameters?

A quick online search gives a diameter of 1.8mm for various rivets. But a table from boltsandnuts.com shows a 1/8" rivet with a mandrel of 0.076 which translates to 1.93mm.

 

As an aside, I recently bought a very nicely built mastic gun to replace the pressed metal one that I could no longer panel beat into workable shape. When I got the new one home, I discovered it was not quite long enough to load the standard cartridge: so now I must trim about 3mm off the rear skirt of every cartridge with a craft knife...........

How do they screw we? Let me count the ways........ (with apologies to Elizabeth Barrett Browning)

[Old Koreelah]

6 hours ago, IBob said:

Old K, I wonder if part of the problem might be different mandrel diameters?

Quite likely, iBob, but that shouldn’t make a difference, because these tools are designed to handle smaller rivets than the 3.5mm ones I mostly use.

[pylon500]

Busy, busy, busy and finally got a chance to come back here...

 

Just looking at the pop rivet problem, I've only ever bought cheap tools and have run across this regularly with rivet guns.

Oddly enough even the 'el-cheapo' guns will probably have the hardened jaws, and I find the problem is not so much with the jaws, but with the cheaper quality of the nickel(?) plating on the rivet stems, which tends to shave off in minute flakes and after reasonable use, builds up in the jaw grooves until the first 'slip'.

After that the slippage becomes more frequent thus shaving off more plating, and the gun will usually stop working after about a dozen awkward rivets.

Pneumatic gun heads are pretty easy to take apart and clean, hand plier guns are a bit more difficult, but you can squirt a bit of thinners, metho, petrol (anything non oil related, not kero or turps), and then blow through with an airgun.

 

Meanwhile, lots of little fiddly things happening, so not a huge amount of VP, and this photo is a few weeks old as well...

And this one is even older as it has almost been closed up now;

(I can feel the questions coming...)

[spacesailor]

Question !

You did say.

Are you still instructing.

spacesailor 

[pylon500]

Yes, still instructing, building, trying to figure out how to build another hangar, writing (no, I've basically given up on that now), and trying to get back into adding to forums...

[spacesailor]

Great 

Keep writing, those ' tombs ' from people, who know a different story to what the official  ( government  )

properganda, that we have been fed !. Untill the internet, that was all we could get.

Any news on our last author Jeff, on the Aussie air force pilots flight to Russia. ( his father ).

My father was an ' airframe fitter,' ( rumered ) to have worked at putting a  jet Whittle  into a tiny airframe.

Not even a photo of him as a youger man.

I knew nothing of his life untill his obituary. ( official secrets !  )

Hope to get out of jail ( lockdown  ) & come to visit  you !. One day.

spacesailor

 

 

 

[Methusala]

On 28/06/2021 at 9:21 PM, pylon500 said:

Just looking at the pop rivet problem, I've only ever bought cheap tools and have run across this regularly with rivet guns.

Spurways ST-10 is a good hand riveter (long handles - good mechanical advantage) but are a bugger to reassemble after cleaning the jaws.

 

Marsden Klicker are good and easier to service. Don't get any chemical contamination on the rivet stems as this causes a build up metal fragments on the jaws.

[pylon500]

Where does the time go! 😱

12 months since an update...

OK, well, work is progressing, but it's mainly all the little fiddly bits that don't look like much when finished, and don't really inspire many photographs (that and the fact I keep forgetting to TAKE photographs!).

Anyway, the engine is finally (I hope) in and assorted bits are being connected to it.

This is a view looking down which basically shows some of my specialised design features.

The muffler sits vertically in a semi-sealed container, which has fresh air fed to the bottom of it by the black foil tube. Hot air exits at the opening shown,  into a duct built into the top of the cowling, which is scavenged by the prop. We can also see the secondary rear spar carry through (the aluminium tube), which is a backup to a U shaped spar arrangement running under the engine. The little hatch on the left leads to the oil tank.

Here is an (earlier) view of the top cowl showing the exhaust shroud duct. This does NOT carry the exhaust, that exits out through the top of the cowl, this is just the hot air around the muffler, being diverted so as not to flow down over the engine.

This is part of my plenum system to smooth airflow both through the radiator, and around into the engine bay. The black tube to the exhaust box visible on the left.

This makes more sense when the cowl is shut, but hard to photograph.

The front of the cowling is not as prominent in this photo, and this was taken before the plenum airfoils were fitted.

I guess I should take some more photos...

 

[Old Koreelah]

Just happened on this thread, so the actual layout of the plane baffles me.

More pix please, or even a video.