Compass

[skeptic36]

Hi all,

 

Is there a panel mounted compass that will work if the panel is on an angle, (tilted back at the top)?

 

Thanks

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[facthunter]

I doubt it. Not of the conventional type. You can have a flux valve out in the wing and an indicator deriving information from it. The best ones to fly with used to be gyro stabilised Your GPS will serve the purpose. Gives TRUE heading. Nev

 

 

[daza]

 

The Silva is common in Trikes, mounted on top of the panel, or to the front strut.

 

 

[skeptic36]

Thanks Nev,

 

The below pic is the panel of my new trike, on the left, an iPad mini slots in and in the centre is a mgl extreme mini efis, both of these will have a compass. Problem is on the right there is an blank space for an instrument, any ideas what to put in there would be appreciated given a compass is out of the question.

 

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad356/Skeptic36/4a629c5ebe0708a5cded6b6086aef163_zps955e473d.jpg

 

 

[skeptic36]

Thanks Daza, that's what I had in my pegasus, an excellent bit of kit. As you can see above, the compass is not really the problem, it is just that I thought it would be the best option to fill the ugly void. ( talk about first world problems:loopy: )

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

VSI ?

 

Easier to read than the Dynon

 

 

[skeptic36]

VSI ?Easier to read than the Dynon

I haven't used the efis yet, but it does have VSI. I guess it depends on the value of not having it up on the screen. I never had VSI in my old trike but often wished I did and yeah it's probably one of those things that need to be in view all the time if you are going to get value from it. Thanks

Regards Bill

 

 

[facthunter]

You could have a stop watch and rate turn needle (with slip indicator). Good old fashioned instrument to fly by. Nev

 

 

[cherk]

Problem is on the right there is an blank space for an instrument, any ideas what to put in there would be appreciated given a compass is out of the question....Fuel Flow meter !

[Ultralights]

 

cant see why you cant use one of these, might need a angled mount to keep it vertical, not exactly sure on its tolerances to angled mounting though

 

 

[Eric McCandless]

I doubt it. Not of the conventional type. You can have a flux valve out in the wing and an indicator deriving information from it. The best ones to fly with used to be gyro stabilised Your GPS will serve the purpose. Gives TRUE heading. Nev

I don't think a GPS can show heading unless they will allow you put in wind direction and speed and can then calculate it, can they? Otherwise GPS will indicate course/track. Eric

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

cant see why you cant use one of these, might need a angled mount to keep it vertical, not exactly sure on its tolerances to angled mounting though

Great compass but pretty useless too near other items, metal, electrics etc.

 

Phil

 

 

[frank marriott]

I don't think a GPS can show heading unless they will allow you put in wind direction and speed and can then calculate it, can they? Otherwise GPS will indicate course/track. Eric

Yes, the only GPS units that I have used (the cheaper VFR ones) only show TMG (track made good) and BRG (bearing to). The TMG might be what Nev is referring to when he stated TRUE heading. The only problem is there is a slight delay between HDG and TMG. Without a compass you would not know the difference between HDG and TRK i.e. Drift.

 

With the growth in electronics my observations may well be out of date, only what I have used.

 

 

[Keenaviator]

You could have a stop watch and rate turn needle (with slip indicator). Good old fashioned instrument to fly by. Nev

Not in a trike. Laurie

 

 

[facthunter]

Can't you do timed turns in a trike? Nev

 

 

[Keenaviator]

I'm sure you can Nev but the skid ball would be useless. Trikes are a bit weird in that you don't fly by attitude since you are dangling around below the wing as opposed to being part of it in 3 axis. Laurie

 

 

[facthunter]

I agree, but a skid ball is a normal thing to have with the gyro (rate) turn facility. Your whole plane is a skid ball really being pendulous. Nev

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Great compass but pretty useless too near other items, metal, electrics etc.Phil

Interesting comment; to make room for an Ipad mini, I'm putting one of those in our Blanik. In what way is it any worse in this regard, than any other direct-reading magnetic compass? The one I have doesn't seem to mind aluminium, which is, after all, a metal. I did notice that it doesn't like the built-in magnets of the mini-Ipad, though, especially if it's mounted close to the longer edge of the Ipad; not too bad six inches away from the short edge. However, those funny little screws underneath it, that can be seen in post #10, are supposed to allow some compensation for stray magnetic fields.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Interesting comment; to make room for an Ipad mini, I'm putting one of those in our Blanik. In what way is it any worse in this regard, than any other direct-reading magnetic compass? The one I have doesn't seem to mind aluminium, which is, after all, a metal. I did notice that it doesn't like the built-in magnets of the mini-Ipad, though, especially if it's mounted close to the longer edge of the Ipad; not too bad six inches away from the short edge. However, those funny little screws underneath it, that can be seen in post #10, are supposed to allow some compensation for stray magnetic fields.

Just my experience.

 

I have one ( card compass) mounted on the dash, most objects temporarily stored anywhere nearby swings the needle, be it sunnies, pens, phone etc.

 

However, as you rightly suggest, the adjustment screws are for swinging at installation.

 

So if say you leave your mini iPad home one day, the compass error could be significant.

 

Phil.

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Quite true; that why I located the compass as far from the Ipad as possible, and in the direction that gave the lease sensitivity. I'll just have to swing the compass for both conditions.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Tell me?, what happens when your plane acends or dives, does the compass malfunction!

 

spacesailor

 

 

[rgmwa]

How about one of these to fill the spare slot? Nice bit of history and quite useful too.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-1942-Elgin-US-Navy-Army-A-11-Military-8-Day-Aircraft-clock-YES-CLOCK-WORKS-/301171458239

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Tell me?, what happens when your plane acends or dives, does the compass malfunction!spacesailor

The vertical-card type I have yet to try in flight, but it does seem to lock-up when significantly nose-up or nose-down. It's clearly designed (as are most gyro attitude instruments) for a vertical panel. The liquid-filled compass it replaces does not malfunction due to aircraft pitch, but it becomes unreadable because the float moves outside the viewing window. All direct-reading compasses are also subject to turning errors, due to the Earth's magnetic field dip, which is why turning onto a heading is normally done using a DG (or by counting seconds, if you have a T & B). Direct-reading compasses are really only for use when you're flying straight and level or making very gentle turns.

The SILVA type is more capable, but does not suit many panel-type installations.

 

 

[skeptic36]

The vertical-card type I have yet to try in flight, but it does seem to lock-up when significantly nose-up or nose-down.

I rang the guys that make them ( had too because that is the only contact details the website offers ) this morning, they said it won't work past 20 degrees from vertical. I need it to be 45 on the ground or 38 in the air, so that's off the agenda.

Sooooo given I have more than I need when the electrics are working, what do we think would be the most useful instrument for a trike if the electrics went out. I would more than likely still have ozrunways running on the iPad. First I thought , altimeter, at least I could report an accurate altitude, but no, the electrics are out so the radio isn't working either. ( I'm a thinker aren't I ) So what's next?

 

 

[facthunter]

In response to Erics reply. With heading to top presentation on say a garmin, doesn't it show where you are pointed.? I disposed of my 296 a while ago.. I realise you have to be moving as a GPS is not a compass.

 

General note . A compass(magnetic) is set up as a pendulum with its CofG below the pivot point. It is encased in liquid so it's oscillations are damped to stop it swinging all over the place. It is affected by accelerations (including turns). Compasses set up for the northern hemisphere, don't work well in the southern one as they are balanced differently as they dip to the nearest pole (magnetic).

 

They are terrible things to fly by, even the best of them.. I have a plastic compass for orienteering and boy scout stuff. I use it for determining polarity when magnetising magneto's. It would probably be ok for your emergency situation, provided it is not near anything magnetised to affect it's accuracy. Park you craft at different headings and compare the readings with a good external compass. (Rudimentary compass swing.) Nev