Some current problems facing our board......

[kaz3g]

Go for it, Andy. I hope and believe you will both get a lot of support and be a great contributor to Board decisions.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Good on you for throwing your hat into the ring, Andy. You have contributed much to this forum, so the Board should benefit from your input.

 

A few questions voters may want to throw at you: Being a fairly young bloke with, presumably, business and family responsibilities, can you afford the time and energy that being on the Board requires? Does your co-pilot realise the extra workload and time away from home you are committing to?

 

If the answer is yes, then go for it. But remember; you only have your kids at home for a few short years. Those years are when most of us are striving to build the house, the business or the career. By the time we get it all set up, our littlies have shot through.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Well done Any, you have my support in this endeavour. You are an ideal candidate.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Great decision Andy, good luck

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Sue, In the pre AUF days many 95-10 ers wanted to go the SAAA way. The AUF was presented as an alternate and took three years of convincing everyone it was the way to go. (1983/86). The only people i have met that were paranoid of a SAAA takeover were Eugene who had a little rant to me at the 2008 Airventure and several other board /exec members around that time. Personally i have been pro SAAA right from 1982 and still am.Ozzie

Ozzie, the SAAA has around 2500 members to our 10,000 or so. We do have an agreement of cooperation with them, and there is good feeling and assistance between the two like organizations..........Maj....

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Andy...best of Luck there....I look foward to working with you under Micks Presendency...........Maj...

 

 

[facthunter]

Anybody who steps up with good intent, gets my support and always has. Thanks guys. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Ozzie, the SAAA has around 2500 members to our 10,000 or so. We do have an agreement of cooperation with them, and there is good feeling and assistance between the two like organizations..........Maj....

The SAAA seems much more focussed on building, with a good support network. Whenever I have asked their people for advice, they could not have been more helpful and supportive.

 

 

[facthunter]

OK I agree, but they are venturing into training. They will then get into the problem area of QA small number over a large area and large variety of types. In my view if they could stay away from training (in the general sense) they would avoid a lot of difficulties.. Nev

 

 

[Keenaviator]

The SAAA seems much more focussed on building, with a good support network. Whenever I have asked their people for advice, they could not have been more helpful and supportive.

The L4 I consult is a very experienced SAAA man, very helpful and passionate about building and builders. Laurie

 

 

[Keith Page]

Ozzie, the SAAA has around 2500 members to our 10,000 or so. We do have an agreement of cooperation with them, and there is good feeling and assistance between the two like organizations..........Maj....

Good Morning Maj

 

That is great news "Agreement of Cooperation". As I see SAAA and RAAus there is not that much of a difference, however I will stand being corrected.

 

RAAus started with building and over the years the aircraft got bigger and grander.

 

You will always get the moaners where ever one goes.

 

We will have wait and see how things evolve.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I recently stopped in and had a good chat with the SAAA pres whilst at Narromine. They are very happy with baseing there and have very impressive facilities. They feel it has been a great move. He told me any of the 'old' animosity of the past between the organizations has now been replaced with a common spirit of co-operation, and that the way it should be.

 

We are all really in the same boat after all.....my visit with them was certainly not wasted time.........Maj....

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm an "associate" of the SAAA chapter 20. When they almost doubled the fees for the "older" people I left the main body which I felt was unfortunate, and a wrong call by the executive. With that aside I find the group excellent and attend many of their "events". They need more members. Same issue .."Where are all the young people?" Note flying under SAAA way of doing things will end up costing much more than the current RAAus as the courses etc cost more. Selling off the Melbourne real estate and going to Narromine helped their finances, but it's a long way away. Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

OK I agree, but they are venturing into training. They will then get into the problem area of QA small number over a large area and large variety of types. In my view if they could stay away from training (in the general sense) they would avoid a lot of difficulties.. Nev

This is a contentious area. They may become enabled as a Part 141 organisation under CASR Part 61 - but in respect of 'transitional training' they'd be better off adopting the EAA/FAA model wherein already qualified instructors can us EXP aircraft under a waiver . RAAus have a much more developed training structure and SAAA could probably benefit from this in any merger. SAAA have a very good MPC which would really help in RAAus technical area. There are some possible synergies. it's great to see that we are talking with them and it might just prove to be the smart move for both groups.

 

(disclosure: I'm Pres of SAAA Chapter 13 - but not speaking on behalf of the chapter)

 

happy days,

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

SAAA come across as a bit licky towards CASA.

 

BTW I like Michael Moncks piece in the latest Sport Pilot on CASA, well put.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Keith,

The GM is the servant of the Board and the Association, and as such assists the Board as well as staff. The new Board and Executive are looking at these issues and, no doubt, the GM has been tasked to gather this information. That's his job. If he asks for a straw poll (meaning "an unofficial ballot conducted as a test of opinion") then he is doing his job. It is not a vote. It won't force a change; but it does show that the issues are worth pursuing further because members who are sufficiently motivated to attend the Association's National event and go to the meeting are overwhelmingly in favour. The Board can then pursue this further, knowing they are not wasting their time.

 

 

 

The magazine is one of the major costs - the same team who do the RAA magazine also do the AOPA magazine. Putting the two together would save a lot of duplication, work and money. The AOPA magazine has sections for the Warbirds and Helicopters; I'm not really into these, but I accept that others are and maybe some of the RAA readers may have to accept that some articles in a joint publication may not interest them either.

 

 

 

You already pay for the magazine now, getting a discount to only get the electronic copy would suit me. My husband and I are members of both AOPA & RAA and we get 4 magazines. Getting only one paper copy for him to read and letting me read on-line would save lots of paper. The printed copy can still go to newsagents, but you could also allow a subscription to the on-line service for non-members. How often do you read a comment on this month's magazine followed by a chorus of "I still haven't got mine ..." On-line is available to all at the same time. AOPA produces an on-line, members only, publication between issues that addresses things the general public wouldn't be much interested in. Less gloss, more info, more timely.

 

 

 

The GM never said ("in another thread") that he was too busy - if you read it again someone else said they thought he might be too busy to read through the mountain of posts on this site. The feeling from those who have had contact with our GM is that he is incredibly hard working, pro-active and dedicated to RAA. I sense that we have one of the best Boards and Staff that we have had in recent times.

 

 

 

WE steer this ship, through our elected Board, who are all volunteers with other jobs, families, hobbies & pursuits; so they employ capable people to take some of the work off their shoulders - as it should be. Attend the meetings and help steer the ship. Don't take a hatchet to the hull.

 

 

 

As for SAAA - I find them very helpful, well organised etc, but I have not been a member long. I am aware some of the early AUF members have an axe of some sort to grind with them, but I am not sure what the issues were. The Boards of both are co-operating to stage a very successful AusFly at Narromine last year and this. Perhaps it is time to for members to forgive and forget?

 

Sue

Hello Sue

 

As I see it, I have a big problem with the GM calling the straw poll, is the duty of the board. The GM is in the office getting it to run smoothly and mentoring staff etc. etc.. I can here you say he was asked to do that task OK that would be a "Oi! Your job you need the information first hand."

 

The board members need ideas to help to form direction hence my reason for thinking on those lines.

 

Magazine online is good however about the people without computers and the number of times we take the mag to work to read and share with friends.

 

With the SAAA there is some work to done, however a vote from membership and that is from both groups would form a good guide here.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Hello SueAs I see it, I have a big problem with the GM calling the straw poll, is the duty of the board. The GM is in the office getting it to run smoothly and mentoring staff etc. etc.. I can here you say he was asked to do that task OK that would be a "Oi! Your job you need the information first hand."

The board members need ideas to help to form direction hence my reason for thinking on those lines.

 

Magazine online is good however about the people without computers and the number of times we take the mag to work to read and share with friends.

 

With the SAAA there is some work to done, however a vote from membership and that is from both groups would form a good guide here.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page.

Keith, see my post on the GM resigns thread. His job is described in the Ops Manual and in his position description. His job is way bigger than making sure the bills are paid and the filing done. About $100,000 more. https://www.raa.asn.au/2014/05/position-vacant-general-manager/ If you know someone who is adept at nailing jelly to a tree; get them to apply.

 

 

 

No one has said the paper magazine will be abolished. But members saying "Save the printing and postage - I'll read it on-line - thanks." will save RAA money and might save putting up memberships when postage goes up. Last year RAA spent $327,133 on the magazine and I am not sure how much of the $48,567 postage was the magazine. That's over $32 per member.

 

 

 

SAAA - RAA already has a Memorandum of Understanding agreement with them (and they with us) from 2009, signed by Eugene Reid & others. You should read it - RAA, Members Only Portal, Partnerships, SAAA MoU. A straw poll costs nothing, but a formal vote (with reply paid envelopes, postage to our 10,000 members, staff resources to print, collate, etc) well, that costs Tens of Thousands. That should only be done when the concept is mature. Would you have been happier if one of the Board members had asked the same questions?

 

 

 

One downside to amalgamating AOPA, RAA & SAAA (and other RAOs) is that people like me are members of several. At present RAA can say "We represent 10,000, AOPA 7,000 etc, but once amalgamated I would only be counted once. The new body would have less members than the sum of the previous parts. Politicians take note of numbers. That aside, there are a lot of good reasons to co-operate and find savings where we can.

 

 

 

Sue

 

 

[facthunter]

You can't really amalgamate with AOPA or they lose their independent watchdog function. You can have a good understanding with them as you can with CASA. CASA is at one end and AOPA at the other with the organisations in the middle, at the bidding of CASA and carrying out some of the "authority" of CASA .(obtaining some support which would be conditional on how they functioned). CASA would never audit AOPA. Be really worried if they did. Nev

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Hello SueAs I see it, I have a big problem with the GM calling the straw poll, is the duty of the board. The GM is in the office getting it to run smoothly and mentoring staff etc. etc.. I can here you say he was asked to do that task OK that would be a "Oi! Your job you need the information first hand."

The board members need ideas to help to form direction hence my reason for thinking on those lines.

 

Magazine online is good however about the people without computers and the number of times we take the mag to work to read and share with friends.

 

With the SAAA there is some work to done, however a vote from membership and that is from both groups would form a good guide here.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page.

I think the GM is well within his job position to be suggesting ideas and policy to improve the organisation. I also think going out and talking to members (and conducting straw polls) is the kind of proactive leadership we need. I think the question we should be asking is why hasn't the board being more proactive with the membership and developing such policy ideas.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

SAAA - RAA already has a Memorandum of Understanding agreement with them (and they with us) from 2009, signed by Eugene Reid & others. You should read it - RAA, Members Only Portal, Partnerships, SAAA MoU. A straw poll costs nothing, but a formal vote (with reply paid envelopes, postage to our 10,000 members, staff resources to print, collate, etc) well, that costs Tens of Thousands. That should only be done when the concept is mature. Would you have been happier if one of the Board members had asked the same questions?

...

 

Sue

Another great reason to move online with a proper members section, so such online votes could be conducted with ease, and policy and ideas could be discussed in a forum like portal with the members.

 

 

[Spriteah]

I have nominated for the upcoming board elections for the NSW positions. Those that have been here for a while will know that I have been critical of past RAAus board members and so its only fair that I offer an alternate. I was prepared to nominate last time but rather than do so I chose to get behind Michael Monk and work towards his election for the one spot that there was last year. I personally believe that today RAAus is a better organisation than it was 18 months ago, but the improvements still leave a vast area remaining for additional improvements.I thought the provision of resolutions and outcomes from the Temora board meeting was fantastic, showing who proposed, who seconded who abstained and result. However if we can do that for those resolutions why not all the other day to day resolutions within the board forum, which is visible only to those that are on the board? There will obviously some for various reasons that cant be reported on, but as long as the categories and determination of which resolutions are not reported on are agreed in advance by category then I can see no reason to not have that extra openness. If on reflection the legal advisors to RAAus say we should not, then lets discuss and advise members of that determination....

 

So, as other has said "put up...or shut up!" so I've put up which to me allows me to continue discussing the organisation we are all part of.

 

Andy

Well done Andy. We need members like yourself putting hands up and running for the board. I know you have the support of the Executive and I personally believe you would be an asset if elected. For those who read these forums I can tell you Andy has always been available to assist the board whenever requested. He has regularly contacted me to keep informed as to progress and given guidance and advice if I requested some. Good luck.

 

Jim Tatlock

 

Victorian Board Member.

 

 

[Spriteah]

Another great reason to move online with a proper members section, so such online votes could be conducted with ease, and policy and ideas could be discussed in a forum like portal with the members.

I don't think conducting a poll online would necesarily give us an accurate representation of membership. I'd love to be proved wrong on this point.

 

Jim Tatlock.

 

 

[Spriteah]

Hello SueAs I see it, I have a big problem with the GM calling the straw poll, is the duty of the board. The GM is in the office getting it to run smoothly and mentoring staff etc. etc.. I can here you say he was asked to do that task OK that would be a "Oi! Your job you need the information first hand."

The board members need ideas to help to form direction hence my reason for thinking on those lines.

 

Magazine online is good however about the people without computers and the number of times we take the mag to work to read and share with friends.

 

With the SAAA there is some work to done, however a vote from membership and that is from both groups would form a good guide here.

 

Regards

 

Keith Page.

The Straw Poll being refered to was initiated by Rod Birrel from my recollection when he began to discuss issues at the GM's presentation. The concept was in relation to having the option of electronic magazine. The GM may have then polled the members on other issues but I cannot comment as I had other duties I had to attend to.

 

Jim

 

 

[Spriteah]

Keith, see my post on the GM resigns thread. His job is described in the Ops Manual and in his position description. His job is way bigger than making sure the bills are paid and the filing done. About $100,000 more. https://www.raa.asn.au/2014/05/position-vacant-general-manager/ If you know someone who is adept at nailing jelly to a tree; get them to apply. 

 

No one has said the paper magazine will be abolished. But members saying "Save the printing and postage - I'll read it on-line - thanks." will save RAA money and might save putting up memberships when postage goes up. Last year RAA spent $327,133 on the magazine and I am not sure how much of the $48,567 postage was the magazine. That's over $32 per member.

 

 

 

SAAA - RAA already has a Memorandum of Understanding agreement with them (and they with us) from 2009, signed by Eugene Reid & others. You should read it - RAA, Members Only Portal, Partnerships, SAAA MoU. A straw poll costs nothing, but a formal vote (with reply paid envelopes, postage to our 10,000 members, staff resources to print, collate, etc) well, that costs Tens of Thousands. That should only be done when the concept is mature. Would you have been happier if one of the Board members had asked the same questions?

 

 

 

One downside to amalgamating AOPA, RAA & SAAA (and other RAOs) is that people like me are members of several. At present RAA can say "We represent 10,000, AOPA 7,000 etc, but once amalgamated I would only be counted once. The new body would have less members than the sum of the previous parts. Politicians take note of numbers. That aside, there are a lot of good reasons to co-operate and find savings where we can.

 

 

 

Sue

Cost of Magazine per member - It is the biggest individual cost.

Magazine Subscription Yearly $66.00

 

 

[Aldo]

As far as the office needing to be sold, well that is clearly false..............the board has recognise the need and advantages of getting out of Canberra, and we have been looking for a suitable alternate base which would supply an 'all under one roof ' type approach which would include a training centre, and hangar facilities, and be at an airfield that would be easily accessible to all members, by both adequet public transport services and owners flying in in their own aircraft.This could also be where the Natfly events may be held. A List of suitable sites has been compiled and looked at but is ongoing, with nothing put foward as yet as being the ideal site.

Whilst I was cooling my heals in Narromine recently I took the opportunity to visit the SAAA headquarters there, and spent some time talking the whole concept over with their President, who was very friendly and accommodating. They are now fully headquartered a Narromine airport so have already done what we are looking at doing. They appear to have benefitted greatly from their move, and there very visible addition to Narromine airports already impressive facilities has added well to that facility.....One thing I have noticed as a board member is that there are many many rumours out there amoungst members..and most of them are totally incorrect or out of date ! .......If you want the real current story just contact your local board member, or check what the latest is on the RAA forum before going off with incorrect info that does nobody any good......Maj......

Maj

As per below you guys need to get on the same page one saying the board has recognised the need to get out of Canberra, the other saying we need to remain, which is correct?

 

At present I believe there is no intention of relocating the office. It has been discussed (and will continue to be so) however as pointed out by a member we are currently under significant financial pressures and still working to protect our rights. We have many challenges to face in the coming months and relocating would add stresses that at this time are not needed.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock

 

RAAus Treasurer.