Anyone here did RA-Aus to PPL conversion?

[meghcandy]

Hi everyone. I was just wondering if there's anyone who have done RA Aus to Private Pilot License conversion in Australia. I am planning to do mine in Gympie, QLD next month! Any thoughts about the conversion and advices?

 

Is it difficult to fly from a light sport aircraft (mostly equipped with a stick) to single engine GA aircraft (with a yoke like Cessna)?

 

 

[Aldo]

My wife did and the found the flying easier in GA aircraft.

 

For mine, flying is flying you just need to learn the differences between types.

 

 

[Graham Pukallus]

Can highly recommend GA instructor Jarrad Smith at Redcliffe Aero Club, who I personally found very patient, thorough and professional, who relates very well with Pilots coming from RAA.

 

I have referred a few now, who are very happy with their training and achievement under Jarrad's instruction.

 

You can contact him on 32031777 or PM me for further info.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Can highly recommend GA instructor Jarrad Smith at Redcliffe Aero Club....

Graham can I ask how many hours did the conversion to GA take? Or in general what would be typical hours?

 

 

[Graham Pukallus]

I did considerable revision and update of especially CTR and in general (current procedures), after some time out of GA, before being recommended by Jarrad to go for my PPL BFR test.

 

In my case this took with briefings sessions approx 8 hours, but this cannot be used as a general rule due to a number of deciding factors re flying experience, competency with radio, Navs, and CTR procedures.

 

The sense and appreciation of reaching this level of competency and discipline in my flying was immense and can attribute this to the patience and skill of my instructor.

 

To answer your question Gnarly of how many hours it would take to achieve a PPL coming from a RAA licence, this would require a assessment of current experience and what would then be required to meet the standards of a PPL Licence.

 

I have a good reference from a RAA pilot who just passed his PPL test last week if want a second opinion. PM me.

 

 

[ayavner]

I am starting on mine as well, and following a fellow student who I went through the RAAus system with. He's just gotten his PPL a couple weeks ago, and I am on track. it's pretty straightforward (in theory) but get your medical sorted first!

 

 

[Oksinay]

First you need to prepare for the GFPT, which I found much like the RAA pilot certificate but in a heavier ac. Then do the PPL theory exam, which I found quite a big test. Then do the PPL flight test which is much like the nav endo for your PC.

 

I did the CTR endo later, easier than mixing it in with the test if you don't have to.

 

The real trick is to do your PC with a school that also does GA training. Only one BAK for example, and GA discipline from the start.

 

Cheers

 

 

[meghcandy]

Thank you for your recommendation Graham. I've always wondered if it is mandatory to fly in a GA aircraft for further conversion training as mostly you start up with a light sport aircraft for the RA-Aus training. What's CTR endorsement?

 

How often do you guys fly per week in your initial training? I'm aiming to do it everyday till flying solo.

 

 

[nickduncs84]

Why not just wait until September to see if the RPL goes through? Save yourself having to do the ppl theory.

 

 

[nickduncs84]

Yep, but I doubt the vast majority of people that have or want a ppl can afford to or want to do any of those things. Most of us made a decision to go Ra aus because of the cost. RPL opens up a greater range of aircraft that are still relative cost efficient. If you can afford a turbine or the gas that goes into a multi, you probably have never even heard of Ra aus.

 

 

[barramundi]

Hi

 

I'm interested in this thread. I have flown and achieved my gfpt in a citabria back in 2010 and haven't flown since. Now I want to convert to lsa due to the cost.

 

So what I would like to know is from ur post what discipline do you refer to?

 

Regards

 

 

[coljones]

HiI'm interested in this thread. I have flown and achieved my gfpt in a citabria back in 2010 and haven't flown since. Now I want to convert to lsa due to the cost.

 

So what I would like to know is from ur post what discipline do you refer to?

 

Regards

Discipline? The supposed higher standards attached to GA Instructors and Flying Schools. Don't believe it. RAA also offers first rate instruction in some very fine planes at a good price.

From Sutherland you can get to RAA Schools at

 

- Wollongong operated by Bruce Robbins on 0412 209 953

 

- The Oaks operated by Daves Flying School on 0414 740 766

 

or Sydney Rec Flyers on 0425 251 939

 

- Sydney Jabiru School at Bankstown on (02) 8061 6516.

 

Keep well

 

 

[facthunter]

I have perused this thread a few times. SO .... A plane is a plane is a plane. Don't let differences like wheel or stick put you off. Changing from, left seat to right. or vice versa is a similar adaptation you will have to make. Heel brake, toe brakes Just FLY the plane.

 

Bigger aircraft are generally easier to fly as they don't kick around due to small air currents as much as tiny ones do. Sometimes they are heavier in the control feel, and the sheer size may intimidate you for a while. (The size of the wallet you need is more intimidating). You fly the plane It shouldn't fly you.

 

Make sure of you basic theory. Don't listen to whacko stuff, if it does NOT sound right. Check it out, if in doubt.. There is no basic reason why you will get a better skills and knowledge base in either GA or UL's. If you fly a wide variety of UL's I feel you may be a better aircraft handler and more adaptable than if you do all your flying in more "refined" models of aircraft, that handle more predictably, because they are "certified" You might also have a slightly greater chance of "hurting" yourself, but nothing's perfect.. Nev

 

 

[ben87r]

Hmm. I do try not to comment on threads relating to GA vs RA traing standards but here goes.

 

I did my RA certificate between 2 schools before achieving my cert. a few years later I did my CPL and did a small amount of training with one school before the rest at one of the larger schools and, there is a difference, and a large one. The RA syllabus vs the GA is where I see most of it. The instructors are no more or less dedicated not the effort any less but the "bar" and the knowledge base of the regs etc are much higher. I got quite a shock after thinking that I was a capable pilot then entering a GA school. But they have different purposes to serve, and both mostly do a good job. Just my experiences but are spread over different schools

 

 

[Nathan_wins]

G'day, I am looking to do a conversion to GA also...I am a low hours RA-AUS member with Nav. endorsement...does anyone have an insight into what RA members tend to find the hardest to adapt to or learn when transitioning?

 

 

[Graham Pukallus]

Thought I would further explain what I and other pilots and instructors believe about the level of accuracy and discipline required in GA flying compared to RAA, not comparing the instruction level of either and agree with Coljones in the flying standard from RAA is generally First Class and makes the transition easier for pilots wishing to go to GA.

 

Firstly in RAA you don't normally operate or more importantly have to enter and follow specific rules and regulations while in class D and C airspace and Airports and adhere to strict procedures, instructions and abide to a high level of accuracy both in the air and taxiing around in a busy commercial airport.

 

Therefore the demand on PPL student is, I believe and in my case anyway much higher with a higher cockpit load with radio procedures, read backs, know the specific aerodrome your flying into and out of re - taxi ways, holding points, helipad crossovers etc etc with the VFR entry points at specific heights, airways clearance, start clearances etc.

 

So considering the above their is a considerable difference when comparing training in a GA environment and meeting the legal standards of operating in a controlled environment, compared to a RAA schools that operate generally in class E Airspace, not withstanding that there are some RAA schools that do operate in Class D aerodrome and Airspace.

 

Hope this explains and answers your questions.

 

Regards Graham

 

 

[coljones]

With respect Graham, there are a considerable number of students out in GA land who do it at uncontrolled airstrips - the addition of CTA and CTR does increase the load somewhat for GA students and will be faced by the new RPT students seeking CTR and CTA endos as well.

 

RAA students flying from Class D 'dromes face Class D procedures from day one but when they complete their training they can't fly their own planes into Class D.

 

I am not sure how GA schools like at, say Orange, manage the CTA/CTR component of training but I can't see it being all that onerous.

 

My own GA CTA/CTR endo test was a bit pressing but enjoyable with a run through Richmond (RAAF) airspace including waiting in a holding pattern to get onward clearance and then a Sydney Harbour Scenic including BOTH Chatswood and Sydney Harbour Bridge. All new so a bit pressing.

 

My hardest trip, thus far, was up the west lane under the Willy airspace in a Foxbat. Flying a very bendy track about 2 miles wide under 1600 feet where, at a couple of points, we were getting close to 500 feet AGL. This was harder than my CTA/CTR excursion through Richmond and the Harbour, a jolly in comparison. Thanks Arthur, for the sangers.

 

I haven't done a Victor 1 excursion (yet), off the coast of Sydney, but I would imagine flying at a constant 500/100 feet over the ocean for a fair few miles would be very character building.

 

All in all, most GA Students face some harder situations than RAA but a lot of RAA students also do some very hard yards.

 

I haven't seen the draft RAA Ops Manual but it would appear to me that the reputed removal of the section for CTA and CTR from the draft is a cop-out by RAA. The future of Sydney Airspace in the leadup to Badgerys Creek Airport will be complex and may well see the removal of G space between Badgerys and Bankstown. RAA would then end up in the same situation as Coffs Harbour and SE Qld where the only way through get very dangerous because of the need to fly offshore or over tiger country or get a CASA licence with CTR/CTA endos, or get CTA/CTR endos for RAA.

 

Col

 

 

[frank marriott]

"waiting in a holding pattern"

 

Col

 

Were you actually given a holding pattern to fly or are you just using the term to describe holding. Just I have never heard of a VFR aircraft being given a holding pattern - I suspect most VFR pilots would not know how to fly one. I realise you can fly a holding pattern over a VFR reference point but just never heard of it being given - is this a norm in the higher density traffic of Sydney?

 

 

[coljones]

"waiting in a holding pattern"Col

 

Were you actually given a holding pattern to fly or are you just using the term to describe holding. Just I have never heard of a VFR aircraft being given a holding pattern - I suspect most VFR pilots would not know how to fly one. I realise you can fly a holding pattern over a VFR reference point but just never heard of it being given - is this a norm in the higher density traffic of Sydney?

To fly the GA route through Richmond you may be given clearance all the way through or to an intermediate holding point. My holding point was Grose River and I was instructed to hold in left hand orbits south of Grose River til cleared forward to Kurmond and Wisemans Ferry. When coming from the north a/c may be instructed to orbit at Kurmond.

The strip at Richmond is lies 10/28 and the western approach is over the area between Grose River and Kurmond and it would appear that the holding/orbit points are designed to provide traffic management between GA traffic transiting and RAAF traffic arriving and departing.

 

I don't know of any other premeditated VFR orbit points in the Sydney Basin.

 

Cheers

 

 

[ayavner]

I did my training at the school in Bankstown, so yes it was radio calls, accurate circuits, and arrival and departure procedures almost from day 1. They were very particular about training me to the GA Day VFR syllabus, as it is a higher standard, and would prepare me for transition to GA. Including tolerances. I am glad they did, as that is what I am now doing and I don't feel like i am on the back foot with having to learn all that stuff anew.

 

Just download the PPL application form from casa.gov.au, it will tell you what you need. Minimum hours aeronautical experience, minimum PIC, minimum XC and XC solo. Don't remember the numbers, but if you have your RAA + PAX and Nav, you should be close. I am well over. Also a couple of hours instruments. There are stipulations on the Nav trips as to distance and number of stops - check out CAR 5.84 Private pilot (aeroplane) licence: aeronautical experience required

 

(1)For the purposes of paragraph 5.77(1)(f), a person’s aeronautical experience must consist of at least 40 hours of flight time as a pilot, being flight time that includes:

 

(a) at least 5 hours of general flight time as pilot in command; and

 

(b) at least 5 hours of cross‑country flight time as pilot in command; and

 

© at least 2 hours of instrument flight time.

 

(2)The 40 hours must be recognised flight time that was flown in a registered aeroplane, recognised aeroplane, helicopter, gyroplane, glider, power‑assisted sailplane or group A ultralight.

 

(3)For the purposes of paragraph (1)(b), the flight time must include 1 flight of at least 150 miles, that includes at least 1 full stop landing at, and at least 1 take‑off from, each of 2 or more aerodromes:

 

(a) that are not the aerodrome from which the flight commenced; and

 

(b) that are not within the student pilot area limit of the aerodrome from which the flight commenced.

 

(4)For the purposes of subregulation (3), a landing is a full stop landing if, after landing, the aeroplane’s speed is reduced to taxi speed before take‑off begins.

 

You'll need to take the BAK to be allowed to sit the PPL(A) exam. Needs to be in your logbook so they can see it at the testing centre. You'll need a medical and possibly an ASIC. You'll need a radio operator's licence (quick exam) and an english proficiency thingo. There is no requirement to do the GFPT, you can go straight to work on the PPL if you have already passed that level by virtue of having your RAA cert + Nav and PAX.

 

I went thru the school in Bankstown along with 3 other blokes around the same time, and 2 of them have already gotten their PPL, as above. I will probably be number 3 out of the group.

 

Feel free to PM me if you would like to know any more, as I'm at the same point as you, or maybe one step ahead :)

 

adam

 

 

[frank marriott]

To fly the GA route through Richmond you may be given clearance all the way through or to an intermediate holding point. My holding point was Grose River and I was instructed to hold in left hand orbits south of Grose River til cleared forward to Kurmond and Wisemans Ferry. When coming from the north a/c may be instructed to orbit at Kurmond.The strip at Richmond is lies 10/28 and the western approach is over the area between Grose River and Kurmond and it would appear that the holding/orbit points are designed to provide traffic management between GA traffic transiting and RAAF traffic arriving and departing.

 

I don't know of any other premeditated VFR orbit points in the Sydney Basin.

 

Cheers

Thanks Col, that answers my query. Its just the term "holding pattern" as oposed to "clearance limit" or"hold at"

I was not aware of VFR pilots being required to enter a holding pattern, its all to do with terms, but you have answered my question.

 

 

[poteroo]

G'day, I am looking to do a conversion to GA also...I am a low hours RA-AUS member with Nav. endorsement...does anyone have an insight into what RA members tend to find the hardest to adapt to or learn when transitioning?

Instructor view: W&B, engine management, performance, altimetry, regulatory stuff, airspace procedures come to mind. Of course, your geographical location will vary the last. If you do the PPL BAK rather than RAAus - it addresses many of these weaknesses. Does make you wonder how, under CASR Part 61, CASA can recognise RAAus PC as equivalent to the RPL when in my opinion, the theory is not equivalent at this level.

 

happy days,

 

 

[barramundi]

appreciate your input on this topic and so to the other members here! more food for thought and decisions!

regards

 

Bara

[theflyingskotsman]

In the process of doing it now.

 

And have heard wispers that an ra certificate with a XC endorsement might be enough to bypass the BAK (given inital theory was good enough).

 

Dont know what merit it has but could be a definate time save, as long as the flight school is happy with the level of theory.

 

 

[ayavner]

[ATTACH=full]29290[/ATTACH] In the process of doing it now.And have heard wispers that an ra certificate with a XC endorsement might be enough to bypass the BAK (given inital theory was good enough).

Dont know what merit it has but could be a definate time save, as long as the flight school is happy with the level of theory.

That's pretty much how I'm doing it. I did not have to do the GFPT, and the BAK I took was good enough - they just needed to see it in the logbook in the testing centre prior to sitting the PPL(A). You need to KNOW all of it for the test tho!! I don't know if it saved me time, but I am sure it saved me money. I think any time i'd have saved was sucked up by weather delays and bureaucratic paper shuffling once I started applying for my medical etc.... but yes, do make sure you are in an RAA school that teaches to the Day VFR syllabus, and you'll be right.