Wellcamp

[fly_tornado]

but that 344,000 is shared with BNE and to a lesser extent OOL.

 

 

[mnewbery]

In answer to the question about hangars, "they" being the airport owner (and I suspect in the case of Avalon this comment is for the prime lease holder) DO NOT build hangars unless for storing their own kit. The owners of Canberra International airport have some nice toys but the hangar used is run by a different company. The other side of the airport has the Defence VIP wing and DSTO which has been there since before privatisation of that airport.

 

So in general company X comes along with an aviation compatible activity like an FBO or a paint shop and proposes to build a hangar at the airport and makes private arrangements with the owner about the details.

 

They might even have an agreement to store aeroplanes in them!

 

The owner could be the local council, Defence, a Pty Ltd company or a farmer with a grass strip.

 

The owner does not, generally, build hangars and hold out to prospective tenants. One reason is that each hangar door is custom built for the user who pays to have it built. Corporate Air use very specific hangar designs because of the planes their clients fly. Do I want to store and fix King Air 350's or protect a fleet of several Cessna 150s? How about two Drifters and a Jabiru?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

and this is why Wellcamp is looking like a dud, if Wagners don't build them, who will? No one will build them without passenger traffic, you won't get passenger traffic from regional Australia.

 

look at how noncompetitive Avalon is compared to Tullamarine for airfares, and that's right on the doorstep to Melbourne and Geelong.

 

I just can't see how they can ever turn a profit, the airline business is too price sensitive now.

 

 

[mnewbery]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Said_Hanrahan

 

SAID HANRAHAN

"We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,

 

In accents most forlorn,

 

Outside the church, ere Mass began,

 

One frosty Sunday morn.

 

The congregation stood about,

 

Coat-collars to the ears,

 

And talked of stock, and crops, and drought,

 

As it had done for years.

 

"It's lookin' crook," said Daniel Croke;

 

"Bedad, it's cruke, me lad,

 

For never since the banks went broke

 

Has seasons been so bad."

 

"It's dry, all right," said young O'Neil,

 

With which astute remark

 

He squatted down upon his heel

 

And chewed a piece of bark.

 

And so around the chorus ran

 

"It's keepin' dry, no doubt."

 

"We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,

 

"Before the year is out.

 

"The crops are done; ye'll have your work

 

To save one bag of grain;

 

From here way out to Back-o'-Bourke

 

They're singin' out for rain.

 

"They're singin' out for rain," he said,

 

"And all the tanks are dry."

 

The congregation scratched its head,

 

And gazed around the sky.

 

"There won't be grass, in any case,

 

Enough to feed an ass;

 

There's not a blade on Casey's place

 

As I came down to Mass."

 

"If rain don't come this month," said Dan,

 

And cleared his throat to speak--

 

"We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,

 

"If rain don't come this week."

 

A heavy silence seemed to steal

 

On all at this remark;

 

And each man squatted on his heel,

 

And chewed a piece of bark.

 

"We want a inch of rain, we do,"

 

O'Neil observed at last;

 

But Croke "maintained" we wanted two

 

To put the danger past.

 

"If we don't get three inches, man,

 

Or four to break this drought,

 

We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,

 

"Before the year is out."

 

In God's good time down came the rain;

 

And all the afternoon

 

On iron roof and window-pane

 

It drummed a homely tune.

 

And through the night it pattered still,

 

And lightsome, gladsome elves

 

On dripping spout and window-sill

 

Kept talking to themselves.

 

It pelted, pelted all day long,

 

A-singing at its work,

 

Till every heart took up the song

 

Way out to Back-o'Bourke.

 

And every creek a banker ran,

 

And dams filled overtop;

 

"We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,

 

"If this rain doesn't stop."

 

And stop it did, in God's good time;

 

And spring came in to fold

 

A mantle o'er the hills sublime

 

Of green and pink and gold.

 

And days went by on dancing feet,

 

With harvest-hopes immense,

 

And laughing eyes beheld the wheat

 

Nid-nodding o'er the fence.

 

And, oh, the smiles on every face,

 

As happy lad and lass

 

Through grass knee-deep on Casey's place

 

Went riding down to Mass.

 

While round the church in clothes genteel

 

Discoursed the men of mark,

 

And each man squatted on his heel,

 

And chewed his piece of bark.

 

"There'll be bush-fires for sure, me man,

 

There will, without a doubt;

 

We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,

 

"Before the year is out."

 

John O'Brien

[fly_tornado]

and look how much business Avalon is doing, 9 flights a day in peak holiday season, by your logic it should be doing much better because it should be doing much much better.

 

http://www.avalonairport.com.au/at-avalon/flight-schedules/

 

 

[mnewbery]

Predictions are not mine. I never predicted anything.

 

Also which hangars should Wagners build, when and why?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

building none only makes me think wellcamp is a tax minimization arrangement, they managed to build a carpark for passengers.

 

You would think a row of T hangars wouldn't have cost them a lot, less than $100K if they built them whilst they had the tools and workforce onsite.

 

 

[mnewbery]

Privately owned company builds a new asset and it runs at a loss for a time. The losses are counted against other profits for accounting purposes and to manage the risk of the new enterprise.

 

Was there a point to the previous post? Tell us, we (and the people who have jobs because of Wagners directly and indirectly) forgot, again.

 

 

[mnewbery]

...and the people who have money invested in the banks who loaned the money to the people like FKP who built the domestic terminal.

 

They want to know too

 

 

[mnewbery]

Answering a question with a question. That would be my prediction, if I had to make one.

 

Which I did, this time

 

 

[fly_tornado]

6 employees

 

You can run a business at a loss if you have capital gains in your asset, I can't see any capital gain occurring in Wellcamp because it's never going to turn a profit.

 

Imagine if Wagners paid that $15M a year, they are claiming against Wellcamp, as taxes, you could build a lot of roads and employee a lot of teachers and nurses. Stuff people need and can use.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Imagine being the security guard at Wellcamp, literally run off your feet all day with passengers

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Matthew, imagine how much that gravel will be worth when they dig up that runway, its up to 5M deep in some places. That has to be worth millions, not $200M but a lot.

 

 

[mnewbery]

Rates, payroll tax and GST are paid by all or most involved. Do we need more nurses and teachers. If so, where and how many?

 

The $96m for the Warrego was federal money so maybe it would have helped a bit there. Only $80-ish million to go...

 

 

[mnewbery]

Fire services levy, stamp duty.

 

All paid at some point

 

 

[mnewbery]

The people who actually get on the planes to go back to their families and the pilots who fly them there, they want to know why a teachers' job is more important too

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Imagine how much tax the Wagners won't have to pay over the life of the airport, taxes which could have trained hundreds of extra pilots for the Air Force, Navy and Army. Many of whom would go on to fly for the airlines...

 

 

[mnewbery]

How many pilots are required, by when, and how will taxing the hospital admissions instead of the people using the airports pay for it?

 

 

[mnewbery]

And now the Kerry Packer quote

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Packer

 

During the inquiry he repeatedly berated the politicians conducting it, and the government. When asked about his company's tax minimisation schemes, he replied: "Of course I am minimising my tax. And if anybody in this country doesn't minimise their tax, they want their heads read, because as a government, I can tell you you're not spending it that well that we should be donating extra!"

 

 

[mnewbery]

How many extra Defence pilots, nurses and teachers does Australia need, where and when?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

My theory Matthew, is the Wagners where expecting Newman gov to be in power for the next 15 years and had planned on selling Wellcamp to QIC at a tidy profit. Wagners being the single largest donor to the LNP for the last few years being my reasoning, they where sweetening the pot for a big payday.

 

Packer paid 3% tax so you can feel good about paying the tax you pay.

 

We have passed on a great debt to the next generation $435B Fed and $70B State http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

 

The libs have got us to the stage where we borrow $120M a day

 

 

[mnewbery]

How many extra Defence pilots, nurses and teachers does Australia need, where and when? Please provide references

 

 

[mnewbery]

On the subject of QIC, they own 25% of Brisbane Airport. Here is the breakdown:

 

http://www.bne.com.au/corporate/about-us/our-company

 

• 17% Colonial First State Global Asset Management and related managed funds
   
   
  
• 4% Commonwealth Bank Group Super
   
   
  
• 13.8% IFM Infrastructure Funds
   
   
  
• 4.9% Motor Trades Association of Australia
   
   
  
• 15.1% National Asset Management Limited as Trustee for the Brisbane Airport Trust
   
   
  
• 25% QIC Limited
   
   
  
• 18.7% Amsterdam Airport Schiphol
   
   
  
• 1.5 % Sunsuper Pty Limited
   
   
  

 

 

 

 

[derekliston]

Just stopped in at Wellcamp for coffee this afternoon! Wagner is a man of vision. When the second range crossing is completed Wellcamp will be a very viable alternative for people to the West of Brisbane. I have lived in Australia for 32yrs and pretty much for all of that time the government have been discussing a second airport for Sydney and it hasn't happened yet. Brisbane now has a second airport and at a cost to the taxpayers of not one brass razoo!

 

Further, I do not understand aviators of any ilk being negative about a new airport opening. Makes a change from them closing down. This forum often surprises me with the bitching and negativity from what should be a pressure group for recreational flying in Australia.

 

 

[mnewbery]

It's not aviators of any ilk. One of us is not like the others...

 

Also while I personally think a pressure group for (as in a"pro") recreational flying is a great idea, this is a hijacked thread about one poster's Fabianist visions for the entire country, rather than about a new airport or any good that might have already come from it in the way of jobs, sales tax, stamp duty or any other form of activity.

 

The Darling Downs has over 60 active authorised landing areas (ALAs) of which YBWW is the most evident. The regional council owns Toowoomba, Pitsworth and Milmerran. Did I forget any?

 

I am not just surprised. Also saddened that opinions can masquerade as facts and remain unchallenged.

 

I personally strongly support all forms of free speech even when it ends in me being called an idiot, a liar and worse by troll(s) who has/have nothing to gain other than it keeps them breathing a bit longer.

 

Welcome to the conversation. Pass the popcorn if you brought any.