Brumby 600 or Tecnam sierra?

[XP503]

Airsport Queensland at Boonah airfield is getting a high wing Brumby online for training and hire very soon, many pilots excited to try it. They sure look like they are built properly by folks that know a thing or two.

 

 

[andrew1975]

Hi guys, I can't compare the low wings planes, but I learnt in a Tecnam p92 (high wing) and I own a brumby 610 high wing. Both have Rotex 912uls engines.

 

Brumby has more fuel ( 140 litres vs 90 litres), is substantially stronger ( ie undercarriage is held on by high tensile bolts not pop rivets etc) but is 4 knt slower.

 

The main difference is the Brumby is built like a GA plane, and compared to the Tecnam is stronger and doesn't have little annoying repairs. It's certainly a lot wider and roomier and a real touring aircraft, has toe brakes and a real aircraft feel.

 

The main difference is handling in rough weather. I've flown a P92 in 35 degrees and bounced around all over the place, I've flown the brumby is 46 degrees across the mallee and all gauges stayed in the green and I could fly in it, I wouldn't ever do that in a Tecnam.

 

My wife will happily come with me in the Brumby 610. She will never ever go in the Tecnam, hates it. Too small in the cabin and too bouncy.

 

That said the 2008 Tecnam looks a nice plane, I had a look at one at avalon airshow and was impressed, although the seat was uncomfortable which surprised me.

 

I can't provide any insight into the low wing planes, but when I had a look at the low wings at Brumbys Cowra factory, they do look sporty. I'm based at Mildura, and would be happy to take you for a spin in a high wing if you wanted, also there is a good Tecnam dealer based at Stawell, who I'm sure would be happy to show you what he has on offer also.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Agro, the MA60 was made by a company, not a country and your position reminds me of all the tightasses who buy a $20, 4" grinder from Supercheap and 2 hours later get on the net and blame China for their own misgivings.

 

Now you do know that Boeings and Airbuses are chockers full of Chinese made parts don't you? - many of the important parts made within an hour of my home actually, the complete tail of a 787, all the inconel fuel lines for Rolls Royce for example.

 

But anyway, just another endless "Made in China" debate that I have been involved in too many times so I'll leave you to your "them and us" idealisms.

 

 

[XP503]

Yes Andrew that is the general opinion out there from those I have spoken to. No better place than online at a busy school to see whether its a good or bad egg, poor training aircraft have a hard life and not a lot of LSA's can handle it ` Hats off to Brumby It is great to see an LSA with a bit strength through intelligent design and quality building now it's time for them to step u[ their production rate and sell their product, I wish them all the best

 

 

[DonRamsay]

. . . It is great to see an LSA with a bit strength through intelligent design . . .

Ahh, they had some help from the Almighty! That explains a lot.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Ahh, they had some help from the Almighty! That explains a lot.

Mrs Brumby helped?

 

LSA are fairly restricted in just where you can place weight and it may well be true that the Brumby is safer, and good on them, but there can only be so much material you can allocate to each area to keep within the weight limit so Shirley, there can't be a massive difference between any of them?

 

 

[planet47]

Manufacturer is the opposite of the Morgans in that he is highly qualified in Aviation engineering. Terms and has high level CASA approvals.

 

"you'll go straight to hell for that one" Mr Ramsay but I remember the Golf wasn't too bad really but it was a few years ago now and I can't comment on brumbies

 

 

[Downunder]

Mrs Brumby helped?LSA are fairly restricted in just where you can place weight and it may well be true that the Brumby is safer, and good on them, but there can only be so much material you can allocate to each area to keep within the weight limit so Shirley, there can't be a massive difference between any of them?

Yes, empty weight is the critical factor. You can build it strong as a tank but usable weight may be marginal.

Brumby empty at 345kg plus 100kg fuel (140l) give about 150kg usable for pilot and passenger. So full tanks may not be possible with a passenger but one up with full tanks and a 16lph Rotax does give massive range.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

I thought the "Intelligent design" crack would have got me to that warmer clime.

 

To be fair, as I also mentioned that Gary does seek and take advice from aeronautical engineers when he needs to - including from the proprietor of Brumby.

 

I can't really comment on Morgans as I've never been in one. They seem to be either loved or loathed.

 

 

[acro]

Agro, the MA60 was made by a company, not a country and your position reminds me of all the tightasses who buy a $20, 4" grinder from Supercheap and 2 hours later get on the net and blame China for their own misgivings.Now you do know that Boeings and Airbuses are chockers full of Chinese made parts don't you? - many of the important parts made within an hour of my home actually, the complete tail of a 787, all the inconel fuel lines for Rolls Royce for example.

 

But anyway, just another endless "Made in China" debate that I have been involved in too many times so I'll leave you to your "them and us" idealisms.

cool leave me to it and stfu, you've had your say now your just banging on with crap...i wont fly anything chinese except maybe a nanchang, wont touch a sky catcher or anyhing, wont fly anything with a chinese engine or structural components

 

 

[acro]

on another note, what do people think about the sonex? it seems to be a very cheap little plane, but its aerobatic so im giving it some serious thought

 

 

[acro]

Now you do know that Boeings and Airbuses are chockers full of Chinese made parts don't you? - many of the important parts made within an hour of my home actually, the complete tail of a 787, .....

Boeing finds problem in 787 tails

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/06/business/la-fi-dreamliner-problem-20120206

 

Boeing 787 nit by tail problems

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/300630/Boeing-787-nit-by-tail-problems

 

and at the tail cone attach points the longerons were delaminating too...china so safe

 

i rest my case

 

 

[DonRamsay]

on another note, what do people think about the sonex? it seems to be a very cheap little plane, but its aerobatic so im giving it some serious thought

Nice looking aircraft for sure. Depends a bit on what engine you put in it. I think a lot of them (home builts) have VW based engines.

Atec Faeta is a very slippery carbon fibre aircraft that gets along smartly on 80HP but fairly rips with a 100 hp. Agent is Dexter Burkill up near Denman/Scone.

 

Depends a bit on how important re-sale is in both time and money terms. A more mainstream aircraft is probably easier to sell.

 

 

[acro]

Nice looking aircraft for sure. Depends a bit on what engine you put in it. I think a lot of them (home builts) have VW based engines.Atec Faeta is a very slippery carbon fibre aircraft that gets along smartly on 80HP but fairly rips with a 100 hp. Agent is Dexter Burkill up near Denman/Scone.

Depends a bit on how important re-sale is in both time and money terms. A more mainstream aircraft is probably easier to sell.

not worth it to resell, but 25k inc engine in the air...the engines are a 2.1lt vw i think they are around 7k new, ive seen some youtubes of them doing aerobatics and they look pretty solid, are there any owners here?

 

 

[bexrbetter]

i rest my case

You know you want it ...

 

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Direct-Power-Angle-Grinder.aspx?pid=294359&menuFrom=70201

 

 

[acro]

You know you want it ...http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Direct-Power-Angle-Grinder.aspx?pid=294359&menuFrom=70201

chinas new state of the art dream liner, 100% safety guarantee

 

 

[bexrbetter]

not worth it to resell, but 25k inc engine in the air...the engines are a 2.1lt vw i think they are around 7k new,

Best to avoid those Mate, the crankshafts and conrods for them are made in my city, Chengdu, actually not far from where the 787 tails are made (AVIC Chengdu). The heads aren't though, they are made on the East Coast of China ... as are the camshafts, oil pumps, Weber carbs among other bits.

 

http://pacrankie.en.alibaba.com/product/1877508102-221939370/Crankshaft.html

 

http://scmzxk1986.en.ec21.com/V_W_Connecting_Rod--8279169_8279385.html

 

http://apsparts.en.alibaba.com/product/971646556-213361646/VW_air_cooled_big_bore_heads_for_beelte.html

 

 

[acro]

Best to avoid those Mate, the crankshafts for them are made in my city, Chengdu, actually not far from where the 787 tails are made (AVIC Chengdu). The heads aren't though, they are made on the East Coast of China ... as are the conrods, camshafts, oil pumps, Weber carbs among other bits.http://pacrankie.en.alibaba.com/product/1877508102-221939370/Crankshaft.html

 

http://scmzxk1986.en.ec21.com/V_W_Connecting_Rod--8279169_8279385.html

 

http://apsparts.en.alibaba.com/product/971646556-213361646/VW_air_cooled_big_bore_heads_for_beelte.html

thanks, ill go with a rotax

 

 

[bexrbetter]

thanks, ill go with a rotax

And we can be absolutely certain that Loncin China, who wholly manufacturers the 650cc single engines for Rotax for supply to BMW since 2009, doesn't supply a single part for any other of Rotax's engine line.

 

That would be just crazy talk.

 

 

 

[dazza 38]

on another note, what do people think about the sonex? it seems to be a very cheap little plane, but its aerobatic so im giving it some serious thought

They have a cosy/small cockpit .

 

 

[pmccarthy]

There were Chinese ultralight ag-sprayers on display at Oshkosh. I have nothing against Chinese products, but these were a real surprise. They looked like they had been welded up out of mild steel rod by a gate manufacturer. They were rusty and deeply unattractive and quite out of place at Oshkosh. I felt embarrassed for the team who brought them over.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Acro, it is more than remotely possible that bexr had his tongue firmly in cheek when appearing to advise avoiding VW aero motor.

 

Would have perhaps been better to include a :cheezy grin:bexr?

 

 

[acro]

i think the vw's are made in south america and china just makes a copied version, i think bexr is just cut, he cant accept his country produces dangerous cheap products

 

 

[DonRamsay]

I think you'll find that bex's country is Australia and just resides/works in China.

 

There is no doubt that a lot of cheap crap comes out of China but not everything that comes from China is of poor quality and I understand bex's irritation in the suggestion that nothing that's made in China can be any good. There are major Western-designed products manufactured in China to Western quality control standards including iPads and iPhones.

 

We've seen this before. Once everything that came from Japan was crap "cheap Japanese junk" and then, over time, they went on to lead the word in Quality Assurance systems. Then came Taiwan and then Korea. All have gone through the cheap knock-off stage to producing real quality. But, if you want cheap stuff they can do that for you.

 

I still avoid food stuffs from China because I don't believe their QC is good enough and there have been examples of criminal actions like the terrible formica in baby formula a few years ago. But, we can do ourselves a favour by judging quality as a matter of fact not prejudice.

 

 

[acro]

...But, we can do ourselves a favour by judging quality as a matter of fact not prejudice.

if you survive the flight