Why some people need a nose wheel.

[David Isaac]

That is why a nose wheel is considered inherently safer.

Ha ha, ducking for cover are we. LOL

 

 

[Teckair]

I thought this guy got carried away in the competition and stood too hard on the brakes.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Exactly Richard. Hard to believe that some one with 1700 hrs experience on type didn't react fast enough. I am sure he has pondered that many times since the incident, poor bugga. Mind you if he had reacted in time the tail would have hit the ground with unbelievable impact, but they are very strong.

 

Damn nice aircraft, I have a few hours in them doing parachute ops, they are my personal favourite tail-wheel aircraft. I actually thought it was a C185 because of the extra little window till I saw the accident report that gave the type as C180J and Potaroo kindly explained the difference.

 

 

[facthunter]

The wheels are well forward of the Cof G when the tail is on the ground, Less when it is horizontal and the same place at some point as the nose gets lower and the tail gets higher. At that point you are up the creek, even if you release the brakes.. As to whether the nose wheel is the answer. It's certainly more civilised until someone comes in too fast in a crosswind and "wheelbarrows" it, and you will invert the plane then, but at a higher speed potentially. In both cases it is not good technique for sure.. For a good utility plane the tailwheel is still the go. An undercarriage that absorbs the energy and doesn't bounce you back into the air would be the icing on the cake but that costs money and the plane is usually bigger. Nev

 

 

[Teckair]

Its not the first time and won't be the last at least this guy did not get hurt. Some time ago a pilot did a stall turn at a air show in Mt Gambier in a Air Tractor which went wrong and was killed.

 

 

[David Isaac]

I saw a guy tip a C180 on its nose and stay there in front of fuel bowser many years ago at Cessnock, just by hitting the brakes too hard. Very embarrassing.

 

 

[facthunter]

Didn't he have a ladder to assist the refuelling? The Clevelands are pretty sudden, Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

hadn't thought of that Nev, easier to refuel when sitting on its nose LOL.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

If you end up slightly nose down and almost stopped and you still need braking with no power on, it won't matter where your elevator is. With no wind over it, it is just an ornament.. If you land 3 point at min speed hanging on the prop, I can't see how you would get into the problem. Nev

I can't honestly see how he did that Nev,. . . .OK, I saw the elevator on the slowed up film, but Why, I wonder ?? This interests me as I have a lot of hours on C-180 and I just can't imagine how a bloke with those published hours manage to do what he did. . . . .

Curious. . . . .

 

Phil

 

 

[David Isaac]

I am hardly a very experienced C180 pilot, nevertheless I had lots of short field practice in my conversion and the following parachute ops. I would not have used that technique doing a STOL comp.

 

I would have come over the fence hanging on the prop, full flap, stall warning active in the hold off. Slammed it on in three point config and applied firm braking keeping the tail on the ground.

 

His started out looking alright in the three point config, not sure why he raised the tail, less control there. He may have had a brain fart moment for all we know.

 

 

[metalman]

The dreaded brain fart,,,,,,

 

 

[metalman]

I was trying to take off on a very soft sticky surface, I started to nose over and went to pull the power, it started looking worse so I instead went full noise and the response was almost instant , the elevator started working and I got all the control I needed , pretty dicey and hard on the undies

 

Matty

 

 

[johnm]

that's a fair bit of de-acceleration .............. wondering if feet were glued to the pedals

 

 

[facthunter]

Might possibly have put the park brake on instinctively. Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

I was trying to take off on a very soft sticky surface, I started to nose over and went to pull the power, it started looking worse so I instead went full noise and the response was almost instant , the elevator started working and I got all the control I needed , pretty dicey and hard on the undiesMatty

On soft strips, I apply full power, then right hand back on flap lever - if it begins to dig the mains in - pull on more flap....right up to 40 degrees. If that doesn't lift you off - then reach for the green knob on the panel marked 'JATO'

 

 

[johnm]

...................... what does the just about taking off button do ?

 

 

[pmccarthy]

It stands for Jesus, Allah - take over

 

 

[facthunter]

That's an accepted soft field technique. If it wasn't effective I would close the throttle slowly. Nev

 

 

[kaz3g]

I see the problem, the pilot was 74!!!

Steady on'

 

Kaz

 

 

[rankamateur]

Thanks for noticing Kaz, I posted that for David, with absolute respect, and it went by without a wimper, So disappointing!

 

 

[David Isaac]

ha ha, sorry i missed the que Ranky ... LOL.

 

On ya Kaz .....

 

I'll get there one day.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's not a promotion David... I would knock it back if I were You. Nev

 

 

[SDQDI]

Does this particular aircraft have mass balanced controls? Watching interior gopro footage of the hornet it is surprising how much the elevator moves on an average (meaning normal, no bounce, gentle) 'wheeler' landing. As the wheels touch down the elevator continues down you don't notice it but when you look at the footage it definitely happens. Without mass balanced controls as his tail tipped up his elevator would pull down further exacerbating the problem which makes the effect worse.

 

Not sure if this is the case but it is something I have noticed (ok maybe Ole pointed it out to me:wink:)