Goulburn Airport Sale

[sain]

Hmm.. any Search and Rescue flights been flown out of there for people lost in the surrounding bush (Bungonia and Buddawangs)? That might help to get the point across too, as its something other than pilots being rescued.

 

 

[Mazda]

The safety aspect needs to be addressed. Driving from Canberra to Sydney may be for commercial or "hobby" purposes, but imagine if there were no rest stops and no service stations enroute? Goulburn is in part a service station for people flying to Canberra. It is a "stop, revive, survive" stop with fuel and a safe place to land when the weather closes in. The non-aviation people might understand this.

 

I'm sure the Council would like to save lives (in the air and possibly on the ground) by providing a safe haven, not cause deaths by leaving VFR pilots with nowhere to land.

 

More imporantly, the commercial aspect needs to be addressed. Firstly, there is a shortage of airline pilots. Airline pilots need instrument ratings, and many do training at Goulburn. If this is not encouraged, all our airline pilots will end up being trained in places like China. This is not "hobby" training, this is training for pilots who will fly Goulburn residents in Qantas aircraft one day.

 

Secondly, towns without airports and services do not thrive. Just talk to people in towns that have lost an airline service. Maybe talk to the people at West Wyalong and Parkes, who have found out today that Rex are no longer going to operate there because the Council taxes have made flights unviable.

 

In comparison, look at how Temora has gone ahead, and it seems mainly due to the airport becoming a tourist attraction for the town. Instead of fading away, Temora is now thriving, with thousands of tourists, plenty of work, booked out hotels, busy restaurants and cafes, and even better roads. Could something similar be done? Or could it be made more like Wollongong with a fantastic cafe/restaurant for people to visit while watching the airport action?

 

Instead of trying to get rid of it, the Council could consider making it a real asset. With the Police academy, prison and Wakefield Park nearby, there is certainly potential for more use. With the huge prices charged at Bankstown, Canberra and Camden, and with Hoxton Park closing, there is potential to turn it into a thriving GA airport. A scheduled service could take people to Sydney in next to no time (although this would work best as an air taxi service which we don't have in the regulations yet). Do the bank runners use Goulburn? I would think so.

 

What about an international flying school? Instead of us using foreign trained pilots, we could train foreign pilots! We have a great country for aviation. Goulburn would be great as students would have navaids on site, a good runway, and easy access to Canberra, Wollongong and the Sydney airports.

 

 

[Matt]

Hey Mazda - you stole my idea...there's definitely a market for aviation schools in Australia targetting the 'growth' aviation markets of India, China etc. - just look at Adelaide, Jandakot, Point Cook, Maryborough.... Goulburn would be a great location - in uncontrolled airspace which is good for ab-initio training but it also has quick access to controlled airspace, GAAP aerodromes etc etc.

 

Now, where's my business plan template......

 

 

[68volksy]

That's a great summary Mazda. If you haven't already done so would you be able to send that to Council or the Goulburn Post? With minor adjustments as needed. Their addresses are in my original post. The Goulburn Post has an email address which makes things easier. Just need to give them Name, address and telephone contact.

 

I'm only one person and have already raised several of these points. Unfortunately they are starting to grow tired of my voice! If anyone else would like to bring the safety debate to the public arena please feel free to email the Post also.

 

Thanks heaps,

 

Tim.

 

 

[68volksy]

Any of you guys over near Jandakot?

 

I hear there's a heap of movement over there regarding earthworks in close proximity to the aero club and around the airport in general? Any photos? The local paper here might like to run a "This could happen to Goulburn" picture.

 

 

[68volksy]

Just a quick note to let anyone know who may be interested that there is a Council meeting on this Wednesday 12th of September at 7:00pm in the Council Chambers.

 

The meeting will be discussing the classification of the airport as community or operational land. They stuffed up in the early 90's and we have caught them out but they seem to be getting special treatment to shortcut the proper process. Basically, community land cannot be sold. Operational land has no restrictions on the use of it. If we can get the airport classified as community land they will not be able to sell it right now.

 

So if people turn up and show their support for the keeping of the airport as community land then, effectively, we may have won. Our problem is Council may not listen anyway but then again they might. We need as many bums on seats in support of keeping the airport as we can get!!!

 

 

[sain]

Seems like that wasnt much notice from the council.

 

Whereabouts in Goulburn are the chambers Tim? I'll try and make it up there for the meeting. Have you called RA-AUS to see if they can send anybody up for it, or would you like me to drop in and see them in person?

 

 

[68volksy]

Well yesterday got the better of me.

 

Chambers are in Bourke Street (runs parallel to the main street) call me if you need some directions this evening.

 

If you could drop in and see RA-Aus that would be awesome.

 

 

[sain]

Well, after navigating the horros of goulburn's council website I figured out where it was (thank god for google maps).

 

I've been looking through austlii (australian law library) trying to figure out what can be done to stop the council declaring the land operational. Unfortunately it looks like bugger all can be done, other than raising issues at required public meetings (did they hold one way back when? if the meeting was post '93 then they were required to, not sure about before that) and appealing to reason. All they really need to do is give notice (28 days) and hold a public meeting for people to raise issues.

 

Anyway it might be best to take a "how can we solve this problem together" approach, and seeking protections for the aviation community using the land, or maybe by convincing them to sell off only a portion of the land, with some planning restrictions in place. Perhaps that land running parrallel to 26 could be good option for hangers and other light industry. Anyway, stuff to ponder. I'll walk down and try to see RA-AUS now.

 

*EDIT*

 

Okay, been down to see RA-AUS, unfortunately they are all tied up in training at the moment (they all looked very busy in the conference room), and will be for the rest of the week, so there is no hope of chatting to one of them re: the sale of Goulburn.

 

 

[Guest grantisaac]

Solve the problems together is the best way.Here at Forbes we work with Council and have established a Airport management commitee with local council 3 members from aero club and 2 private operators.We have aimed to reduce councils operating cost of the airport and is working well. The Local Aero Club purchased a second hand tractor from council and now slashes the Airport saving council over $20000 a year. Council supplies the fuel and roundup spray.

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Good idea there grantisaac.

 

So Tim, what happened at the meeting last night? Sorry I couldn't make it.

 

Ross

 

 

[sain]

The meeting was very well attended, with about 20-25 concerned citizens showing up. These included members of the Canberra Aero Club (thanks guys and gals!), members of the Southern Highlands Aero Club and other Goulburn pilots, and some people from the businesses now operating at Goulburn (having moved from Canberra because of the cost). There was also an ex-council member and a few others I've probably missed (apologies all)

 

The council had a number of plots of land that they wanted to convert to operational use and for the most part these went without comment. The only two items stirring any intrest from the audience were a car park and a caravan park (both items opposed).

 

Then (with some trepidation) they got to the airport....

 

Turns out everybody was at the meeting to speak out against the conversion of the land to operational, and sale of the airport. Every time the gentleman hired to run the meeting asked for further comments, their was a rush of hands in the air and people trying to get to their feet. Pretty much every point we've raised in this forum was covered, along with a few others, such as the origional owners of the airports gift of the land to the federal government and their stipulation that it be used as an airport for everybody who to use it. The bad points of privatisation were also covered, and all the "hidden" benifits such as firefighting/saftey, aerial news coverage.

 

A number of the councils points for the conversion were also effectively debunked, such as the "lack of community interest" (turns out they are more interested in the airport than the art gallery) and the "lack of strong ties to the community". A number of suggestions along the line of "we can help you make this airport better" were also very well received.

 

The gentleman running the meeting asked a number of times for any comments for the conversion, but none were forthcoming.

 

Probably missing a bunch of other things that were covered, but hey. Tim can comment (c:

 

Anyway the gentleman running the meeting wound it up by concluding that nobody in attendance was for the land being made operational, or for it being sold, and he would cover our concerns in his report to council (which will also be made available for comment).

 

In the meantime letters to the council opposing the conversion to operational land, and the sale would be much appreciated.

 

A big thanks to those who voted on the Goulburn post site too, it was enoughto get them to send a reporter along to the meeting, which should also stir the public interest a bit! The excellent % against the sale was also raised to the council.

 

Thanks for the suggestion grantisaac, thats a great idea.

 

 

[68volksy]

There have been 3 airport committees started and closed in the past 15 years or so apparently. They seem to have been established by Council more to calm people down than to actually achieve anything unfortunately.

 

But this time we're making a hell of a racket and have gone to them with the "let's work together approach (after asking for a meeting a dozen times in writing over 7 weeks!!)". The tractor idea has been mentioned by at least 2 people on those committees but both times Council was not interested due to the liability issues. The aero club was not in any formal state at that stage. I will look into it again though - i do not see any liability problems if they "contract" the work to the aero club.

 

 

[68volksy]

The original grant of the land by the Poidevin family in 1922 for use by the Goulburn community as an airport got some coverage in todays paper and has stirred up quite a bit of interest in town apparently. The Poidevins were (and still are) a big name in Goulburn in those years.

 

We got front page of the local paper again today.

 

We still need letters in support of classifying the land community from wherever we can get them.

 

I'm going to try and get a break-down of the costs of running the airport. Nobody hold their breath about this but if I can we will be able to make a presentation to Council about keeping costs down.

 

 

[sain]

Tim while your at it can you find out if the [email protected] email address can be used for submissions? Might be easier for people like me who prefer to do things in software rather than in hardware (damn pen and paper!)

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

Well guys,

 

now's your opportunity. Goulburn Airport is advertised for tender in today's Australian - bottom of page 39. The tender is for the sale of the airport. Closing Date 26 November.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Guest mudjeep]

So what was the point of all that public consultation if they are just going to ignore it? When are the council elections?

 

Jason

 

Goulburn Mulwaree Ratepayer

 

 

[Ultralights]

Just another corrupt local council. Welcome to nsw.

 

 

[68volksy]

Yep,

 

The Paper's survey had 96% of people wanting the airport, the public meeting had everyone wanting the airport and no-one against and the dozen or so written submissions were all in support of keeping the airport.

 

The process they followed to classify the land has no legal backing whatsoever and at least 3 of the 9 Councillors are against the sale.

 

Corruption is the word that seems to be going up in bright lights. But they have control. We're getting some free legal help from the Environmental Defenders Office and can only hope they have the time and resources (and case) to take it on.

 

Elections are next September. None of them are expecting to get back in.

 

 

[steve200]

The shame of gov't

 

Details are at the site below

 

http://www.goulburn.nsw.gov.au/economic/5513/5514.html

 

Very disappointed but not at all surprised. State/local government hasn't shown any regard for residents or community for many many years in this state.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

After experience with a Cessnock Councils devopment project with the Hardie Group and watching an entire village fighting their decision it is more than obvious how the system works and who it benifits most. Big buck developers steer govenments by political donations, payoffs and blackmail and public consultation is just to show due process. 100% of a town voting against a development is not worth jacksh*t in any council chamber or court. you will find that by the time plans hit the public for comment and approval that the paperwork has been already signed and stamped. then when you think you got em the developer sells the land at bargin price to his director manager and the process begins again under another name. and you start your fight from scratch against a new company and the development flows on like nothing changed. if you want to win you have to have more dirt on the council than the developer has.

 

ozzie

 

 

[sain]

Perhaps its time for some federal interferance, after all, they do have ultimate control over airports. Plus its federal election time, so it shouldn't be too hard to persuade one or more of the candidates that its a good idea to send the council members a letter/email saying that they don't support the sale of the airport.

 

Failing that maybe try individually persuading a couple of other council members that the sale is a bad idea, or that the process they have followed is going to look really really bad for them if they ever want to get re-elected.

 

Looks like there is also going to be a pre-tender meeting held at the council chambers at 11am on the 5th November. Might be a last chance for some reasoned debate about the subject.

 

It might also be worthwhile going to all the businesses in town and getting as many as possible to sign a petition against the sale of the airport, and presenting that at the meeting.

 

 

[Guest Nudge]

This stuff really irritates me, who the hell do these people think they are, this is public property, how can they just sell our stuff like this.

 

How the hell can they not meet the concerns that were raised at the meeting, aren't they just custodians of the land, not the owner?

 

If it were to go to court to prevent the sale, does this mean it cannot be sold, and if so, then would this mean it must remain open and in public hands?

 

Has anyone gone to a uni to talk with a professor or students in their last year for free advice?

 

A heap of organisations provide free legal advice http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=free+legal+advice&meta=cr%3DcountryAU

 

These guys can provide a free solicitor in your local area http://www.acls.org.au/

 

You might not get anyone taking it to court for you, but they may know of an old law that has not been written out that could prevent the sale.

 

P.S.

 

Multiple votes can be achieved by resetting your modem if on broadband to obtain a new IP number and clearing your browser cache and cookies :devil: not that I did....honest, i just know this because I'm a networking/programming geek, err professional.

 

(admin edited to remove unnecessary language)

 

 

[facthunter]

Sale of airport.

 

You do need good legal advice. Has anyone approached the local member. What is the situation with the State Gov't in this matter? Grim stuff. Good luck Nev...

 

 

[68volksy]

Thanks Nudge,

 

We've been in contact with the Environmental Defenders Office in Sydney. They handle legal wrangles with Councils for community groups and developers. They are looking through all our stuff and have found 1 possibility that comes down to the date the airport was given to Council. Anything in 1992 is fine but of course Council holds the documents that would confirm one way or the other.