Boambee Beach Crash Crime Scene

[turboplanner]

Better than a windscreen full of rotating ground.I was told years ago that if i was ever caught out in cloud that was down to the deck the method most likely to produce survivable results was to back stick it into a flat spin holding full back stick and full rudder. You will still hit the ground hard but good chance to get out of it. Better than spinning it and tearing the wings off.

Looking at this wreckage i'd say good chance it was nose up spinning wings still attached and tail not twisted off, not to much damage to the crew.

 

Question remains why no recovery back to normal flight.

 

Let the debate begin

That's covered in several threads Ozzie, search for "Chipmunk"

 

 

[facthunter]

The chipmunk has a very high rate of descent spinning. It's always been known for it (Around 6000 fpm.). Don't think I have ever had a problem with them spiralling. The recovery is quite different and you roll out of a spiral easily. If your speed is high, just roll out with aileron and recover from the dive normally The entry (intentional) can be a bit prolonged and shuddery? Out of spin aileron and the correct entry airspeed helps and full into spin rudder and full back stick too. It would take a lot of turns to get it into a flat spin. From 4,000' to the ground wouldn't take a lot of turns. Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

....I was told years ago that if i was ever caught out in cloud that was down to the deck the method most likely to produce survivable results was to back stick it into a flat spin holding full back stick and full rudder. You will still hit the ground hard but good chance to get out of it. Better than spinning it and tearing the wings off.......

Steve, with great respect whoever suggested that technique as survivable is seriously misinformed. When a plane is spinning it is descending at at least the stall speed in a rotating vertical descent profile. If the stall speed is say 45 knots the aircraft will impact the ground in a rotating vertical decent. Given the ground is immovable and the deceleration forces would be from 45 knots to zero in the crumple distance of the aircraft, survival would be virtually impossible. In contrast if the aircraft was set up in landing configuration at minimum approach speed and was to impact the ground at say 60 knots in a more controlled manner the chances of survival would increase as the deceleration forces will be dissipated horizontally as the aircraft slows after impact. Either scenario is a really bad position to be in. Sure you may tear the wings off in a spiral dive, but only if you pull back in panic as the ground appears in the windscreen. Again either way you are dead in any case. The moral of the story is don't put yourself in IMC if you are only VFR rated. I did once and will never forget it.

You could use a spinning technique to descend through a hole in cloud if you were in desperate circumstances to regain visual reference, but you will need enough airspace to recover and you need to be certain the aircraft is spinnable or should I say, certain it will recover from a spin, something a non aerobatic pilot should never attempt. Again, not a position you want to be in. I had to do descend through a hole once in a C182 to escape IMC, I closed the throttle, slowed up and dumped full flap and descended in a rotating controlled speed spiral through the hole to have less than 500 ft between the cloud and terra firma. A story I chose not too tell for more than 20 years.

 

 

[rankamateur]

A story I chose not too tell for more than 20 years.

This seems to happen with people who fly under bridges too, does age weary your reslove to keep the secret?

 

 

[David Isaac]

This seems to happen with people who fly under bridges too, does age weary your reslove to keep the secret?

I think it is maturity, acknowledging none of us are infallible and confidence ... all products of age. It was an experience I will never forget, I was 32 years old at the time and was very close to a statistic. 28 years later I hold a different perspective.

 

 

[dutchroll]

There are several ways of getting down through a hole in the cloud that I can think of (a couple of which I've used), but spinning through it isn't one of them!

 

Also in a spiral dive, the #1 recognition feature is rapidly increasing airspeed, whereas speed in a spin is fairly low and stable. I wouldn't be relying on nose attitude or rate of descent at all to tell me if I was spinning versus spiral diving. It's all in the airspeed.

 

 

[Guest Nobody]

In times gone by there were tales of glider pilots spinning through cloud to descend but they knew that there was clear air beneath the clouds to recover from and the aircraftat the time were often very stable spinning. Many modern aircraft recover themselves and you are very likely to end up in a spiral dive. I don't think that people were advocating a spin to the ground as a way of landing.....

 

The prefered glider emergency descent through cloud is the benign spiral mode.

 

 

[facthunter]

Adding to Dutchrolls post re spiral or spin. The airspeed is the key to working out what is happening. The countryside swirling past the windscreen looks much the same ( unless you are in cloud, where you see nothing but "milk") Turn needle gives direction and airspeed defines spin or spiral (whether you are visual or IMC.) AS for going through a small hole descending, you would need to be sure you had a suitable cloud base below, as there has to be somewhere to go when you get there, a minimum speed for bank angle, steep gliding turn would have to be the go, and stay out of the cloud. Beta if you are lucky. This situation is a bit hypothetical as there is no point in arriving in a small valley with hills in every direction with their tops in cloud. Nev

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

In times gone by there were tales of glider pilots spinning through cloud to descend but they knew that there was clear air beneath the clouds to recover from and the aircraftat the time were often very stable spinning. Many modern aircraft recover themselves and you are very likely to end up in a spiral dive. I don't think that people were advocating a spin to the ground as a way of landing.....The prefered glider emergency descent through cloud is the benign spiral mode.

Gliders have dive brakes; most of them are designed to limit the speed to less than the design diving speed (the ones that do this are called "speed limiting" brakes). In one of these, with no gyro instruments, you can open the brakes and take your hands and feet off the controls. Provided the cloud base is high enough, you may come out giddy, but the aircraft will remain in one piece. However, flying gliders within cloud is verboten in Australia, so you should never need to try this. If you try to retain control, in a glider with no gyro instruments, you are very likely to overload the airframe or pull the wings off.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Had to pick up the wife this afternoon from the virginaustralia flight. While parked around at the aero club to avoid paying a parking fee while waiting I could see something that just didn't look right in front of the hagars to the north of the airfield. Anyway picked her up and went around to look, photos taken between the strands of barbed wire.......

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

It's had a bit of a whack to do that amount of damage. Pretty strongly built aeroplane. Looks to have hit pretty flat. Nev