Does anyone have more information on this NSW South Coast accident?

[motzartmerv]

Yes, true, but there is a fate worse than death...Living half a life, being too afraid to do what you love. We are all here for a good time, not a long time.

 

Do it right, do it clean and safe, and you will minimise the risks. There are no garuntees in life, with ANYTHING.

 

 

[jeffd]

yes terrible news.condolences to all .i certainly wouldnt be surprised if it involved a bird strike i have been up close to a pelican when flying with a friend of mine and would make a terrible mess.and i havent heard much regarding problems with structures on the morgans anythings possible i suppose if it works loose but i am certainly not going to speculate here at all. im sure we will eventually find out and learn something from it.

 

 

[jeffd]

Its times such as this I regret taking up flying for my hobby. Two people i have never met have lost their lives and by the sounds of it through no fault of their own and from a cause they could never have recovered the aircraft from regardless of their impeccable flying experience. I served as a nsw ambo for 17 years and I have seen the effect these tragedies have on friends and family so to those who knew these guys I think I speak for all of us when I say that I cant imagine your sadness at this time. I'm also wishing I had taken up another hobby because as a member of RAA I will have to watch the media and probably CASA and who knows what other organisation discredit RAA flyers. Im also the owner of a morgan aircraft so this tragedy is close to home. My copy of sportspilot arrived today and I'm almost afraid to open it because although I love to read the awesome stories of people's flying experiences, I also feel like a naughty school kid when I read about how I mustn't be maintaining my aircraft properly or my organisation is losing money and how casa hates me. Yep, I'm definitely in a bad place today, this accident is just so sad.

what sort of morgan do u hav russ

 

 

[Guest john]

Yes, true, but there is a fate worse than death...Living half a life, being too afraid to do what you love. We are all here for a good time, not a long time.Do it right, do it clean and safe, and you will minimise the risks. There are no garuntees in life, with ANYTHING.

Hi Motzart Merv,

There are 2 guarantees in this life that are 100% guaranteed which no one yet has escaped & no one in the future will , & they are as follows:

 

1. Death

 

2. There is an old saying in Aviation: "We have never left anybody up there yet".

 

A well recognised Aviation Engineer in the USA & around the world by the name of ROY LOPRESTI who has since gone to the Aviation University in the sky had a motto which stated:

 

"FLY FAST, LIFE IS SHORT'.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest russ.mullins]

My morgan is a cheetah. It was built by gary morgan and has been very easy and fun to fly. I dont really know the difference between a cheetah and a sierra, I think they are basically the same and the sierra has some improvements that have come with time.

 

 

[Louie]

Sincere condolences to family and friends of all involved.

 

The Sierra is all metal skins and the Cheetah is fabric and metal. Sierra can have 6 cylinder Jab (amongst others).

 

 

[David Isaac]

I think that as a result of this tragedy we all want to know what it was that caused the deaths of two highly experienced guys in these circumstances. Obviously something beyond their control. Out of two possible options I personally hope it was a bird strike; the second option, structural failure is not something that I particularly want to hear.

 

 

[Ron5335]

Russ,

 

Your comments and sentiments are 100% spot on, but you with your 17 years as an ambo, and mine with 35 years with the fire service makes you realise that you don't have to be doing anything dangerous to be killed in this life.

 

In most cases you to return to your workplace and just shake your head and have to accept that being in the wrong place at the wrong time is a fact, otherwise you will fry your brain in trying to rationalise it, and of course there is the flip side where you roll up to an horrific scene only to find people with minor or no injuries.

 

After 35 years of this, I have summed life up into a few sayings.

 

Live each day as if it's your last (Because one day you will be right)

 

Those who can do, and those who cannot teach.

 

A monument has never been erected in recognition of a critic.

 

THE ONLY CERTAINTY IN LIFE IS IT"S UNCERTAINTY.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Those who can do, and those who cannot teach.

But thankfully they do hey, would be interesting watching you teach yourself to fly.

 

 

[nickduncs84]

But thankfully they do hey, would be interesting watching you teach yourself to fly.

Don't think it was meant in the context of flying, or in the context of any profession where on the job training is the norm. By definition, the instructors are both teaching and doing!

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yes, sorry. I was just wondering what the context WAS, in a thread regarding the death of a life time career instructor.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Yes, sorry. I was just wondering what the context WAS, in a thread regarding the death of a life time career instructor.

That's ok Motzy, we still love you anyway, we know where your heart is. Xx

 

 

[Guest russ.mullins]

It has been great reading your comments fellas, I rarely comment publicly on these forums but this one really got to me. Sometimes when we hear about an accident we can imagine ourselves in a similar situation and rationalise that we would have survived that one cause we would never leave the fuel turned off, or run out of fuel, or fly in bad weather or whatever. But in this case we have 2 flyers with way more experience than me who appear to have been enjoying an awesome view and seconds later the aircraft is falling from the sky and all of their skill and training is not going to save the day. I know that when it comes to life none of us will get out alive, but it really sux when you dont get a crack at extending your personal best for days lived when you dont get any chance to do something about it.

 

 

[AVOCET]

Yes, sorry. I was just wondering what the context WAS, in a thread regarding the death of a life time career instructor.

The saying is :

Those that cannot do , teach .

 

And those that cannot teach , teach others to teach :

 

It's got nothing to do with this thread .

 

I understand only to well at the reading of the accident posts,ect ect .

 

I still haven't flown ,and the avo's been ready for months .

 

I'm at the stage now of thinking it may be time to hand up the headsets ,

 

I am at this stage scared of flying , it's hard to explain , but last month a friend flu me from y plc to home and after we landed I broke out in a sweet and was feeling rather odd .every one noticed.

 

I carn't even watch that show on telly anymore

 

AIRCRAFT ACCIDENTS

 

These deaths and prangs DO have an effect on us all !

 

I haven't got the answer

 

Mike

 

 

[reggie]

Avocet, it's unfortunate you are feeling that way. I find I'm more worried driving the 35 mins each way to work each day than any time flying the Cougar. Or any aircraft for that matter.

 

 

[AVOCET]

Avocet, it's unfortunate you are feeling that way. I find I'm more worried driving the 35 mins each way to work each day than any time flying the Cougar. Or any aircraft for that matter.

No offence bro , but when was the last time you flu into tree at 60 knts.

12 g impacts are hard to forget

 

 

[reggie]

Na sorry can't say I've done that, hopefully never will. Had a few good ones on bikes though but that another story. I hope you can work through it. Really hope they can find out the cause of accident that started this thread. My condolences to the family and friends involved.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Avocet, I can understand why you have had that reaction and don't know how I would feel, probably would react in the same way. I am hoping you get through it because I want to see the new engine setup. My wife said the old one reminded her of that movie where a giant bee lands on the top of a car! But the photos now show it looking pretty slick. So I'm sure we all want to see it out and about.

 

 

[Teckair]

Those who can do, and those who cannot teach.

Does not apply to flying.

 

 

[facthunter]

With flying. Those that can do, and those that can't get into management, where it's not noticed. Nev

 

 

[kgwilson]

My wife gave me a little plaque for my birthday some years ago.

 

In the centre it has a large inscription "Life is a Journey". Around this there are some small inscriptions "Seize the day", "Live your dreams" and "Dwell in possibilities". I see this every time I sit down in front of my computer and realise that this is what I do. This is what I have always done. It makes me feel good to be here, get on with living, try new things, have fun and put away troublesome thoughts. Whatever life throws at me I always find the positives. We are here for a short time so I want to make the most of it. I do things that some consider dangerous or risky. I always subconsciously weigh up the risks compared to the benefits. Almost everything we do involves risk. It is the level of risk that is acceptable to the individual that counts. If you feel the risk is too high then don't continue.

 

Most of us who have managed to survive into our 60s have seen tragedy and loss of colleagues, family or friends some after a long and fulfilling life and some where it has been cut suddenly short. I lost 2 mates in my 20s to motorbike crashes, my brother in law at 35 to cancer. These are just what life is about. It will end for all of us some day. It doesn't matter to me whether that is today or in 20 or 30 years time. It is how I live my life that's important & I am going for it.

 

 

[Spriteah]

The saying is :Those that cannot do , teach .

And those that cannot teach , teach others to teach :

 

It's got nothing to do with this thread .

 

I understand only to well at the reading of the accident posts,ect ect .

 

I still haven't flown ,and the avo's been ready for months .

 

I'm at the stage now of thinking it may be time to hand up the headsets ,

 

I am at this stage scared of flying , it's hard to explain , but last month a friend flu me from y plc to home and after we landed I broke out in a sweet and was feeling rather odd .every one noticed.

 

I carn't even watch that show on telly anymore

 

AIRCRAFT ACCIDENTS

 

These deaths and prangs DO have an effect on us all !

 

I haven't got the answer

 

Mike

Mike, Good on you for putting this post up. In my time I have come across a few pilots that when talking too have indicated similar feelings to yourself. At least one of them gave up flying. I think if you are having rservations it is wise to take a break and talk it through with friends, other pilots or a professional. I go on the concept if it is not fun don't do it. On a few occasions I have hopped into friends planes and gone for a fly and experienced an un-easy feeling that they really arn't fully flying the plane to a level I am comfortable with. Needless to say I don't climb in again.

 

Some days I just don't feel like flying and choose NOT to fly on these days.

 

Wish you the best. Have a chat to a few instructors might help. Never feel pressured to fly!!

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Mike and Russ, I've helped a few students through this over the years and fellow pilots as well. In a previous life I worked on motorcycle safety programmes and training as well. My passion and involvement for the things I've done has inevitably led me to positions where I have had to confront the very tragic side of these activities. I have struggled in all of these environments to come to terms with the loss and the frustration of not being able to control or change the outcomes. What made things worse, and I still recall it, is when it was someone I knew. I don't think anyone can truly separate themselves in this case. Unfortunately in my riding and hang gliding history, my roles and the confrontation with the above tarnished me to a point where any enjoyment was lost.

 

Recently I had to stand over a burning wreckage with a fire extinguisher knowing full well a friend and other flying colleagues were inside. None of this is easy.

 

I walked away from hang gliding, but the passion and drive I have for aviation saved me. I re- invented myself with recreational aviation back in the nineties and have dedicated my flying to build and educate all aspects of safety. I refute the throw away line that those who can't do, teach, what I have found is that passion and other motivations often drive the desire to teach but unfortunately teaching requires more than just an understanding of flying, it requires an understanding of people, and that is indeed an art.

 

I temper any negative thoughts with the reality that loss is inevitable - we all suffer the terminal condition of life but I will live, experience and hopefully influence those around me in the journey. My safety is only pertinent in as far as what I can learn to control, but if I can do anything to enhance it then I'm better working within the environment than walking away.

 

I had a very visual lesson taught to me a long time ago- a friend held a pen up and walked his fingers round it , he looked at me and said see that pen- I said yeah of course! He said well that pen is like a problem or hurdle in life, you can choose to walk around it, or you can deal with it, if you deal with it you'll remember it but it has been dealt with, if not that pen is always going to be there. I thought it was trite at the time but over the years that simple lesson has rung true. Right now I'm reminded of it again, my wife has been diagnosed with cancer, yep there's that bloody pen again, but well apply that same truth that has worked so far.

 

Don't leave something you love- embrace it we owe that to the things that define us!

 

 

[turboplanner]

My mother died when I was eight, I've lost a number of relatives, seven of my friends died in succession road racing, I've lost one of my CFI's to an EFATO, another CFI to wind shear on takeoff, and an Instructor to spatial disorientation over the sea during an official search operation. I've worked for a few decades in truck design and road safety, and in racing safety where I've been at the scene of pointless deaths, but on the other hand have seen and been involved in changes which reduced the toll very substantially.

 

So you tell a very familiar story to my experience Ballpoint and you tell it very well.

 

Where someone has a severe shock, such as falling from a roof, being involved in a serious crash, rape, being confronted by a snake or spider, cancer etc a psychological issue called a Phobia can set in. The person will avoid the chance of a repeat to the point that their life is disrupted and sometimes miserable, and depression can set in. They really need a psychologist to deconstruct the even, rationalise it for them, and reconstruct it. I've seen some excellent recoveries in the hands of psychologists, where the person was able to comfortably able to resume their occupation or sport and put the event behind them.

 

I like the pen example; dealing with it or rationalising it and knowing you can't change the world certainly helps to keep you moving forward.

 

 

[Runway]

As an update, neither Ralph, the co-owner, nor the plane have been located. Police suspended the search yesterday and will re-access the situation next week. It is possible neither will be found, although I believe a group of local divers are keen to resume a search should the official search not succeed.

 

Without finding the wreckage, I guess finding a cause is unlikely. We can only dismiss some causes, such as power failure etc. The plane was meticulously built. Also, recovery from stall was not a problem (and apparently it hit the water nose down). Ralph was an experienced pilot and Graham White (who was conduction a BFR at the time), was an extremely experienced instructor. I last flew the plane three days before the accident (with Ralph in the right hand seat), and we both commented on how well it flew.

 

Both Ralph and Graham were great blokes. I have known Graham for about 5 years, and I was best mates with Ralph for nearly 40 years (when as a young uni student, I bought my first Ducati from him).

 

A funeral will be held for Graham next Friday (18th) in Wollongong.

 

Enjoy your flying guys, because I hope to continue to do so in the near future, but just not in our own plane.

 

Jeff