Does anyone have more information on this NSW South Coast accident?

[arielle]

Beautifully written Jeff, I'm sure any one of us would be pleased to to be remembered in those terms. I can only imagine the turmoil of the past few days for those close to the loss, but I am very pleased to see that you intend to continue flying. Death impacts us all in different ways, but I lost a dive buddy in an accident and although I was not keen to return the ocean for a while afterwards, I was talked into it and the successful dive became something of a tribute to our friend and I seldom pull on a mask without a thought for him. Keep strong, but talk to people around you - it helps.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Jeff,

 

We all appreciate the update, thank you. Whilst I did not know either of the pilots personally, we all feel the loss in different ways, for me I feel for those who knew them and loved them.

 

I hope that a lot of effort is put into finding the aircraft if for nothing more than to find Ralph and put some answers to the questions.

 

All our best.

 

 

[facthunter]

You have more control over your circumstances flying a plane you built or service, than being on the road where many other peoples actions can kill you. Statistically, mile for mile or minute for minute the car is probably safer. In a civil jet statistically you are very safe, but a prang seems horrific to contemplate, but they do happen. Nev

 

 

[Cooda]

Statistically, mile for mile or minute for minute the car is probably safer.

Surprisingly, three insurance companies thought I was safer flying a Jabiru around the NT than driving.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Ive had a few calls, texts and emails form people, looking for...I dont know, encouragement, answers, some sence!.

 

I dont have much to offer them. Its times like this we all have a look at it apply our own mortality to the equation.We wouldn't be human if we didn't.

 

Ive chased the rabbit down this hole several times before, and the inevitable question arises:

 

If old mate, with 20,000 hours cant survive this sport, then what hope do I have? Ive heard it a dozen times this week, and its echoed in my own thoughts.

 

We need to be realistic. Theres plenty of posts here about the odds being in our favor etc, and thats very true, but as I keep saying, we can minimise the risk as far as humanly possible through solid, safe flying.

 

Every flight MUST be flown on its merits, there is no such thing as routine, not at this end of the spectrum.

 

Q.If I toss a coin 99 times and get 99 tails, what are the odds I will get a tail again?....

 

A. 50/50.... Exactly the same odds as each one of those 99 coin toss's that came before . It matters not what you did in the previous 10..100..10000 hours leading up to THIS flight.. This next flight carries all the same risks and odds as every flight hence.

 

"The plane landed fine, taxied in fine, ive only been sitting having coffee for an hour, no need for a walk around"?? How many of us are guilty of this thinking?

 

" Fuel quantity checked.. Yep, I checked it this morning, all good"

 

" Should we run the engine up again?"... "No it should be ok, It was fine this morning. ".. Examples of trying to carry the odds into this flight, trying to maintain " 99 tails, this one HAS to be heads"...

 

I would never presume to speak for the deceased. But I reckon if I know one thing about Graham, its this.. He would absolutely cringe if he knew his dimise was causing some of us to question our future in flying. It would sadden him NO end.. He devoted a life time to Instructing, mentoring, and sharing the passion. Thats what drove him, thats what got him up every day. Thats why he had little money.. Its the infectious love of flying that defined Graham as a pilot and a human being, and knowing this, im sure he would be telling us to have a beer for him, and get on with it. Do it good, do it safe, only do it in CAVOK if you want to, but for god sake....DO IT!!!

 

 

[alf jessup]

Looks like they have found the wreckage and recovered the body of the pilot missing, closure for the family now and condolences to all who knew both the fine aviators lost in this terrible accident.

 

Alf

 

 

[David Isaac]

In this very tragic event, this is one bit of welcome news for Ralph's family. I just very sincerely hope we also get some answers as to why this tragedy occurred.

 

 

[Ultralights]

If old mate, with 20,000 hours cant survive this sport, then what hope do I have?

I think this is a bad line of thinking, Accidents happen, whatever the cause, and yes, it can happen to any of us, but stop to also consider the hundreds, or thousands of pilots that end their careers, many lifelong careers, in happy retirement every day around the world..

not to mention how many are killed an maimed on the roads every year, and those that do survive a serious road accident, always leave the hospital in a car.

 

Fatal road accidents occur quite regularly, many dont make the news, but that doesnt stop me driving,

 

even after more than 1000hrs flying, i still get a little nervous before every flight, the adrenalin levels rise, it helps keep me alert, and i try my best to reduce the risks should something go wrong to their lowest levels, and i still practice emergency manoeuvres such as forced landings, EFATO etc quite regularly.

 

 

[Sky Gazer]

Hi Russ,

 

I can understand your frustration when terrible things like this happen to our fellow aviators with an immense of experience under their belt. As a VERY low time time pilot with no claims to being anything more than a learner and the realisation that parts can and do fail from normal wear and tear or external forces ( like a bird strike) I thank my lucky start for the invention of the BRS. I am certainly not too proud or foolish to think I may have the skills or experience to overcome the odds when confronted with such a stressful situation so my Check List ensures BRS pin out -just in case- I don't want to be fumbling around to remove it if the time ever comes and especially when every second counts.

 

Pete

 

 

[Sky Gazer]

...Every flight MUST be flown on its merits, there is no such thing as routine, not at this end of the spectrum.

Q.If I toss a coin 99 times and get 99 tails, what are the odds I will get a tail again?....

 

A. 50/50.... Exactly the same odds as each one of those 99 coin toss's that came before . It matters not what you did in the previous 10..100..10000 hours leading up to THIS flight.. This next flight carries all the same risks and odds as every flight hence....

Interesting analogy Motzartmerv but perhaps a little misleading ?

 

Yes the odds of throwing a tail would be 50% but the probability of throwing 100 tails in a row is one in 1282051282051282051282051282051.3- that's right !

 

Odds relate to a single independant event whilst probability looks at the relationship of a series of events in this case 100 consecutive coin tosses. That's why we don't regularly see it on Anzac Day.

 

No offence intended,

 

Pete

 

 

[motzartmerv]

No offence taken. I spoke not of probability for a very good reason. I dont think my post was missleading at all, if you understand the message behind it, which I think most people do. No offence intended:)

 

 

[facthunter]

Each time you throw a coin you have equal chance of having a head's or a tail's. Every time it is the same. What you did last time cannot affect it. You can calculate probability. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Exactly Nev. The sentiment behind the analogy was that it doesnt matter what you have gotten away with in the past, your odds are the same EVERY time you fly. You cant carry odds over.

 

 

[facthunter]

I NEVER play the Pokies.I might look silly BUT...... Nev

 

 

[andyski]

The saying is :Those that cannot do , teach .

And those that cannot teach , teach others to teach :

 

It's got nothing to do with this thread .

 

I understand only to well at the reading of the accident posts,ect ect .

 

I still haven't flown ,and the avo's been ready for months .

 

I'm at the stage now of thinking it may be time to hand up the headsets ,

 

I am at this stage scared of flying , it's hard to explain , but last month a friend flu me from y plc to home and after we landed I broke out in a sweet and was feeling rather odd .every one noticed.

 

I carn't even watch that show on telly anymore

 

AIRCRAFT ACCIDENTS

 

These deaths and prangs DO have an effect on us all !

 

I haven't got the answer

 

Mike

"He who can , does . He who cannot , teaches . " George Bernard Shaw.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

"He who feels the need to bag out educators, in a thread about a dead instructor, is a lowlife" Andrew Campbell

 

While im sure the family of the deceased Instructor really enjoy the clever, cute little cliche's bagging out his chosen career path, perhaps you can start another thread entitled " My ignorant and obnoxious views on other peoples jobs."

 

 

[arielle]

No actually it's a thread about a plane crash that killed TWO pilots, not just your friend. You're obviously hurting and I think people have cut you quite a bit of slack on account of that, but if you're unable to step back and gain some perspective, maybe it's time to give the subject a rest. That's not a dig at you, but a serious suggestion, getting yourself all worked up over comments that were probably never intended as you've interpreted them isn't doing you any good and ends up devaluing whatever else you have to say.

 

Back to the topic at hand, I understand the wreckage (all of it?) has been recovered, is this still an RA-Aus/Coroner investigation or are the ATSB involved?

 

 

[motzartmerv]

arielle. Thank you for the advice, and Im very aware of what the thread is about. What perspective am i missing mate? If you want to put sh!t on my mate, and his chosen career path, as well as many others who devote their lives to teaching, before hes even been buried, then you my friend are going to have to deal with me im afraid.

 

Im very aware also that there were two pilots killed in this accident, does that make it ok to only bag out half the crew? I put up with a lot of ill informed, rubbish, but I wont put up with this .

 

So yes, stick to the topic, please.

 

 

[Teckair]

"He who can , does . He who cannot , teaches . " George Bernard Shaw.

It doesn't matter who said it does not make it correct. There are many sayings that are not correct 'you can't judge a book by it's cover' and so on. Quite often they contradict each other. That saying about teaching might apply in some areas but does not with this. If you knew what you are talking about you would know there are many capable pilots who are instructors.

 

 

[David Isaac]

It doesn't matter who said it does not make it correct. There are many sayings that are not correct 'you can't judge a book by it's cover' and so on. Quite often they contradict each other. That saying about teaching might apply in some areas but does not with this. If you knew what you are talking about you would know there are many capable pilots who are instructors.

Correct Richard, and George Bernard Shaw was somewhat cynical in some of his statements.

 

 

[facthunter]

I wouldn't think an instructor who couldn't fly very well would keep it a secret for long. (Teaching flying as distinct from theory). There are plenty of times where the statement is made the instructor would be expected to be above average and inspire confidence in his/her students. You have to be pretty adept t get the plane safely out of situations you allow the student to get into to learn.This doesn't mean that instructors are the only ones who have knowledge, or should be listened to. A lot of experienced pilots have told me they would not have the patience to instruct, or the inclination. Many instructors see it as transitional to something "better" and don't have a lot of flying experience. Whether the "Better" is actually so, is debateable but it will pay better. I don't meet many rich instructors (in the money sense). Nev

 

 

[Teckair]

No actually it's a thread about a plane crash that killed TWO pilots, not just your friend. You're obviously hurting and I think people have cut you quite a bit of slack on account of that, but if you're unable to step back and gain some perspective, maybe it's time to give the subject a rest. That's not a dig at you, but a serious suggestion, getting yourself all worked up over comments that were probably never intended as you've interpreted them isn't doing you any good and ends up devaluing whatever else you have to say.Back to the topic at hand, I understand the wreckage (all of it?) has been recovered, is this still an RA-Aus/Coroner investigation or are the ATSB involved?

Rubbish, what makes you think someone implying instructors are poor pilots and can't fly is appropriate?

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Why are people arguing about a quotation from literature? This is totally inappropriate speculation disguised as an academic argument. Surely the first thing that needs to be done, now the wreckage has been recovered, is to work out what bits (if any) are missing. The forensic study of aircraft wreckage is a rigorous discipline. It may or may not reveal something significant; it's essentially a process of progressive elimination, and very tedious, but until the process is completed, the waffle that has been going on in this thread, beyond expressing people's feelings, is, candidly nauseating and I suggest, irresponsible.

 

 

[facthunter]

Because they CAN. .. It could always be worse Dafydd. It is good the wreckage is recovered. It MAY provide some answers. Nev

 

 

[arielle]

"Rubbish, what makes you think someone implying instructors are poor pilots and can't fly is appropriate?"

 

Looks as though my original point is being made for me, but I'm fascinated as to how you got from what I wrote, to that conclusion. I tend not to agree with the sentiment expressed in the saying, but the OP can justify his position himself. All of which remains irrelevant to the matter at hand. Back to my original question, does anyone know whether the ATSB are involved in this one too, if anything I'd say there is likely to be more to be learned here than the Barossa Tecnam crash.