Recreational Flying at the Crossroads

[facthunter]

Transit CTA and go into some aerodromes is the most you need. It would be good to have a PIFR rather than a night VFR. Much safer, and legal. You don't want to fly totally in controlled airspace as it's often over tiger country. Nev

 

 

[coljones]

Reference one of the articles written in our Sport Pilot magazine by the CEO or Tech Manager from memory of few months ago stating that they we're looking at incorporating CTA approval into the ops manual at some stage, no time line given though.

RAA is in the process of taking reference to controlled airspace and dromes OUT of the next release of the Tech manual. While a lot of members are after CTA access there is no indication that RAA or CASA are in a hurry to progress it.

 

 

[coljones]

Like a few have said above, I'd be interested in picking up an RPL but would not give up my RA Membership, Pilot Cert or RA aircraft. But, it would be fun to occasionally fly a Piper or some of the GA Experimental stuff.

Nor I. I enjoy the Jabiru, it is my primary plane. Having a PPL enables me to fly planes into CTA, such as Bankstown with a radio or C Airspace provide I have a working Transponder.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

I could also benefit greatly with transit of CTA. I don't think I need to land at Controlled airports like Bankstown. But transit of Williamtown, Coffs, Coolangatta, Nowra etc would avoid having to fly over longer and less desirable country.

 

I believe CTA is not that far away for RA-Aus even without a Class 2 medical.

 

Of course you would need to have a properly equipped aircraft and have done the training and passed the tests.

 

CASA is in print as having said the Pilot Cert and RPL are equivalent. Well, they will be equivalent when the Pilot Cert includes at least a CTA transit Endorsement.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

RAA is in the process of taking reference to controlled airspace and dromes OUT of the next release of the Tech manual. While a lot of members are after CTA access there is no indication that RAA or CASA are in a hurry to progress it.

Col, is this something you could fix for us once you are elected to the Board?

I'm sure you would attract considerable support if you were an advocate for transit through CTA. Imagine how frustrating it must be for pilots who train, fly solo and then are awarded a Pilot Cert at Coffs and then, as soon as they get their Pilot Cert, they are no longer allowed to fly into or even out of Coffs? Makes no sense to me.

 

 

[dlegg]

So, what are the requirements for an experimental aircraft registered VH to enter CTA? Would I be right in assuming that I could convert to a RPL with CTA endorsement, re-register my home built 19 as VH, fit a transponder and then legally enter controlled airspace/aerodromes? Does the maintenance privileges also carry over if you are the builder? Now theres an opportunity to get up to some mischief........

 

 

[coljones]

Col, is this something you could fix for us once you are elected to the Board?I'm sure you would attract considerable support if you were an advocate for transit through CTA. Imagine how frustrating it must be for pilots who train, fly solo and then are awarded a Pilot Cert at Coffs and then, as soon as they get their Pilot Cert, they are no longer allowed to fly into or even out of Coffs? Makes no sense to me.

I would like to think that I could. The total lack of consultation with the rank and file in regard to the draft Ops Manual is a travesty. The board, under a lot of pressure, released a password protected copy to CFIs but don't seem to have a precis of changes available to anyone. Ring the board members and communicate the need - been there done that - didn't work. More changes needed on the board - YES. Vote early & Vote often but don't vote informal and number the squares 1 to 5 this time, please.

 

 

[coljones]

So, what are the requirements for an experimental aircraft registered VH to enter CTA? Would I be right in assuming that I could convert to a RPL with CTA endorsement, re-register my home built 19 as VH, fit a transponder and then legally enter controlled airspace/aerodromes? Does the maintenance privileges also carry over if you are the builder? Now theres an opportunity to get up to some mischief........

The CTA privilege attaches to the PPL (or RPL) not the plane. There may be issues where you fly your plane - are you allowed over built up areas? If your plane is allowed to fly over the land you want to fly over then a suitably equipped RA aircraft fitted with appropriate comms could be flown in CTA provided you have an RA cert. to fly the plane and a PPL (or RPL with CTA) to get you into CTA. E&OE of course.

 

 

[Rob Judd]

Ref the Recreational Pilot Licence. It was never intended to replace or come into conflict with the RAAus Pilot Certificate.

The RPL does NOT entitle the holder to fly an RAAus-registered aircraft anymore then a PPL does - the only way to legally pilot an RAAus aircraft is to hold an RAAus Pilot Certificate.

I can't see any reason why it wouldn't entitle the holder to fly an RA-Aus registered aircraft. According to the CASA document rr61_rpl_fs.pdf "A pilot certificate is equivalent to an RPL."

 

In New Zealand a PPL holder can simply get type certification on a microlight and fly the damned thing. We should be doing the same. My prediction is that by the cutoff date, 31 Aug 2018, the RAA flying schools will be decimated.

 

There's a political formula for this, btw.

 

SQ + MUP = LFO

 

(where SQ is Status Quo, MUP is Most Uninspiring Possibility and LFO is Likely Future Outcome)

 

 

[turboplanner]

Deja Vu; CTA was the high point where it all turned around to mud for RAA, and hit the grass roots most of all.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Of course you would need to have a properly equipped aircraft and have done the training and passed the tests.

That and the standard of the testing is the issue. Already there are issues with visiting GA aircraft from low population regions; a little bit like the country driver coming into the city.

 

 

[facthunter]

You should know what you ask for.

 

Staying current, tracking to tolerance and holding altitude giving accurate position calls. radio failure procedures, holding. etc etc. Don't go there.

 

Transit and access to SOME aerodromes for maintenance perhaps. Get into a CTA and stuff things up and you will be up for some serious money,and bring the authorities on all of us. You need to be doing it regularly also to be comfortable and quick. I mean it. Nev

 

 

[68volksy]

So, what are the requirements for an experimental aircraft registered VH to enter CTA? Would I be right in assuming that I could convert to a RPL with CTA endorsement, re-register my home built 19 as VH, fit a transponder and then legally enter controlled airspace/aerodromes? Does the maintenance privileges also carry over if you are the builder? Now theres an opportunity to get up to some mischief........

Not sure about the transfer of registration but you could certainly have built the aircraft under the SAAA as VH experimental and get full access to all GA priveleges if you also had RPL or PPL. And builders can still maintain their aircraft under VH experimental.

 

Culture of SAAA is a little different also - they're very passionate about the building of aircraft. RAA also has to cover the "factory-built" pilots which have an entirely different set of wants and needs.

 

 

[shags_j]

The only reason I will be moving on to PPL after my xctry endo is that I want to be able to transit CTA etc. My ideal world would be RA ticket, with CTA endorsement so I can continue to fly ra reg acft through cta.

 

Seems like the old school members of RA Aus are somewhat against this. I can only hope though that common sense at some point prevails.

 

 

[AVOCET]

That and the standard of the testing is the issue. Already there are issues with visiting GA aircraft from low population regions; a little bit like the country driver coming into the city.

Now now , I can do donuts like the rest of um

 

 

[dodo]

The only reason I will be moving on to PPL after my xctry endo is that I want to be able to transit CTA etc. My ideal world would be RA ticket, with CTA endorsement so I can continue to fly ra reg acft through cta.Seems like the old school members of RA Aus are somewhat against this. I can only hope though that common sense at some point prevails.

I am not against extra rights, so long as we don't end up with extra responsibilities. If CTA endorsement requires a class 2 medical, fine. If all certificates then also require a class 2, not so fine.

 

In short, we don't want or need to be a mirror of GA - that already exists as a good option.

 

If we can get CTA transit (or full CTA) without putting undue extra responsibilities on those that don't need it, great.

 

dodo

 

 

[Chocolate]

Like a few have said..The RPL drivers licence medical has been totally screwed by the CASA AvMed people who resent it totally as it may do there DAME mates out of very lucrative business and AvMed people the power of life and death over private aviators flying careers. As also mentioned above, the RPL medical is more difficult than a Class 2 unless you are in top medical condition and could breeze through a Class 2. It is in no way suitable for anyone who wants to fly with a less than Class 2 standard medical condition.

Every dame I know says it is for their own professional interest only. There is no money to be made in it. They cannot see why it goes through avmed doctors review processes and delays issuing of licences. Avmed doctor reviews are a waste of public money. Let the dame decide.

 

 

[facthunter]

I doubt the Dame's would want the extra liability. CASA don't pay enough to get the standard of Avmed people they should have. Nev

 

 

[SDQDI]

I am not against extra rights, so long as we don't end up with extra responsibilities. If CTA endorsement requires a class 2 medical, fine. If all certificates then also require a class 2, not so fine.In short, we don't want or need to be a mirror of GA - that already exists as a good option.

If we can get CTA transit (or full CTA) without putting undue extra responsibilities on those that don't need it, great.

 

dodo

I agree wholeheartedly dodo.

I eventually want to be able to fly with the kids as well as mum so will need four seats now it would be a benefit to me if I could do that under RAA but if we keep increasing our responsibilities it will increase our regulation which defeats the whole purpose of RAA in the first place, so I will be going the GA route eventually.

 

Dodo you worded that perfectly, it's all good to increase our benefits but if that affects some negatively we need to beware.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Just re-read my comment about DAMES. it was intemperate and regretted. All they can do is work within CASA's rules.

 

My beef is with the CASA AvMed mob. In the USA, the trend is to allow more pilots to fly without an aviation medical. In Australia, CASA have made the drivers licence medical more difficult to obtain for most than a Class 2 medical.

 

 

[shags_j]

remember CASA don't go out of their way to irritate us. I think the blame here lies with the minister and the edicts he hands down. Maybe our aggression should be focused elsewhere...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The only reason I will be moving on to PPL after my xctry endo is that I want to be able to transit CTA etc. My ideal world would be RA ticket, with CTA endorsement so I can continue to fly ra reg acft through cta.Seems like the old school members of RA Aus are somewhat against this. I can only hope though that common sense at some point prevails.

Shags, you are Incorrect in thinking its the 'old school' that don 't want it.....it's CASA who set the rules there.......Maj....

 

 

[shags_j]

Yeah but i got the impression that a lot of the older rag and tube guys don't want CTA due to required medicals etc. that may impact on their own flying. If not why can't we petition CASA for the access?

 

 

[coljones]

Shags, you are Incorrect in thinking its the 'old school' that don 't want it.....it's CASA who set the rules there.......Maj....

With respect. The problem is, Ross, that we don't have a clue what the Board is thinking on a vast range of issues.

We don't know why RAA is removing CTA from the Ops Manual and we don't know what the Board's attitude to CTA access is. The Board has to be a lot more open and upfront with the rank and file.

 

Perhaps the Board should start with a clear policy on registrations and maximum normal delay times so that members can work with the Techman to achieve win-win results.

 

The Board could issue a precis of proposed Ops and Tech Manual changes and the justification.

 

The Board could issue a position statement on CTA access.

 

Among "other duties, as required".

 

Keep well.

 

 

[red750]

This post probably won't add to this conversation, but I learned to fly in pre RA Aus days, and did most of my training up to Unrestricted PPL level out of YMMB with a few flights from YLIL. A radio licence was essential along with the Student Pilots Licence, so it was just taken in stride. Every flight involved flight in a CTA, and training for the Unrestricted licence included a couple of flights into YMEN when Ansett and TAA operated their 727's and DC9's into there. I don't recall any trepidation with this. When I lived in Sydney for 4 years due to work, I flew out of Bankstown, and took pax over the Harbour Bridge. My endorsements ranged from Victa 100 Airtourer, through Musketeer, Cessnas, Pipers, Grummans, to Beech Bonanza (V-tail).

 

Short of winning Lotto, I'm not likely to return to active flying, as the age pension doesn't run to such pleasantries, but if I won Lotto, it would have to be at least RPL for the weight allowance (I weight 135 kg which doesn't leave much for an instructor, fuel, etc for more than a couple of circuits), and I don't think I would pass the medical.