OPERATIONAL FREQUENCY REQUIREMENTS - RAAus

[Admin]

OPERATIONAL FREQUENCY REQUIREMENTS

 

 

 

 

 

 

Operations has been made aware of some confusion relating to the use of radio and correct frequencies for operations in non-towered aerodromes since theAIP was updated last year.

 

 

 

A number of comments and queries have been received from CFIs and Operations are currently undertaking a process to ensure clarification via RAPAC meetings and representation to CASA.

 

 

 

We advise that the following NOTAM has been published which will serve in the interim to clarify which frequency is to be used and under what circumstances:

 

C119/14

 

OPERATIONAL FREQUENCY REQUIREMENTS

 

IN LIEU OF CURRENT AIP INFORMATION REGARDING OPERATIONS AT OR IN THE

 

VICINITY OF NON-CONTROLLED AERODROMES, PILOTS MUST USE THE FOLLOWING

 

FREQUENCIES FOR BROADCASTS:

 

A. IN THE VICINITY OF AN AERODROME DEPICTED ON AERONAUTICAL CHARTS, WITH A

 

DISCRETE FREQUENCY, THE DISCRETE CTAF SHOWN (INCLUDING BROADCAST AREA

 

CTAF), OR OTHERWISE;

 

B. IN THE VICINITY OF AN AERODROME DEPICTED ON AERONAUTICAL CHARTS, WITH NO

 

DISCRETE FREQUENCY SHOWN, THE CTAF 126.7; OR

 

C. IN ALL OTHER CASES, AREA VHF.

 

PROCEDURES INCORPORATED IN AIP EFFECTIVE 21 AUG 2014.

 

FROM 07 180435 TO 08 201559

 

Jill Bailey

 

Operations Manager

 

 

[kaz3g]

So what do you do when there are two or more discrete CTAF frequencies within 10 NM of each other?

 

Anyone departing the Melbourne Coastal route at the. Laverton BOM Tower and heading NW for Bacchus Marsh township, for example will pass 5NM from Bacchus CTAF 11.8 on the left and Melton CTAF 121.6 on the right.

 

They will also have Melbourne Radar 135.7 breathing down their necks because they will be very close to the Tullamarine CTA LL2500.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Anyone else using upper case would be accused of SHOUTING.

 

 

[SDQDI]

Anyone else using upper case would be accused of SHOUTING.

Lol they have members like you and I to deal with on a daily basis so shouting is to be expected:wink:

For Kaz, I don't know the perfect solution for that situation but if I am transiting through an area with 2 different CTAFs within 10nm I see a couple of options.

 

1, make a call on both frequencies with your intentions and monitor both if able.

 

2, if transiting through make a call at 10nm to the closest and before you pass the halfway point to the other make a call on it.

 

Obviously when in an area where radio procedures could be questionable (or a possibility of more than one frequency) monitoring the radio and keeping a good lookout is paramount.

 

Also if dual channel monitoring be very aware of the frequency you are transmitting on, a little experience of mine MIT be worth sharing:blush:

 

I was heading over the range to scone with a pax for a little get together at the scone aero club, it had been foggy at scone in the morning and wasn't until 11ish that it was safe to cross the range with phone confirmation that the fog had lifted. So we hopped over the range and it was still dreary looking but the cloud base was a safe distance above us so I made my 10 mile inbound call and continued. A minute or so later I heard the foxbat call turning base and I gave my position again and ended by asking what the conditions were at the airport and he didn't answer me:scratching head: I was thinking how rude can these scone people be, it wasn't until I heard a call for Quirindi that I realised I still had the YQDI frequency as the main and scone as the listen only. So it's very easy to stuff it up and even easier again if the CTAFs are closer

 

 

[frank marriott]

I guess this clarifies where CAAP 166 was in conflict with the VFG, AIP, and RAA (Fly Safe Tutorial)

 

 

[shags_j]

I don't think melb radar will hassle you too much. We've never had much problem heading south to say redcliffe with the 1500 step. Radar has more to do than chase up errant 1200 paints...

 

 

[dodo]

What if the airstrip nominates a frequency, for example in the country airstrip guide? For example, a field not on the maps specifies 126.7 - do you then use 126.7 or use the area frequency? I assume the NOTAM overrides local preferences, but the locals may not take that view at their own strip.

 

dodo

 

 

[frank marriott]

What if the airstrip nominates a frequency, for example in the country airstrip guide? For example, a field not on the maps specifies 126.7 - do you then use 126.7 or use the area frequency? I assume the NOTAM overrides local preferences, but the locals may not take that view at their own strip.dodo

Given that in the example you mention, there may well be non- radio traffic anyway, I would use the multicom frequency and if your communications system allows also monitor area freq. and make an arrival flying 3 legs of the circuit. (Remembering unless required in the ERSA radios are not mandatory below 5000ft - at least yet anyway)

 

 

[poteroo]

I have concerns about an airstrip which is not 'depicted' on WAC, (and probably these outnumber those on the WAC), as falling into Section C. It has always been the case that it doesn't matter whether the airstrip is shown, or not shown on the WAC - if it does not have a discrete frequency approved - then it becomes 126.7 first preference, area frequency last preference. I can't think of a single case of where area is 1st choice. This is just confusing the punters. In any case, there's very likely to be non-radio traffic so it becomes see and avoid. Joining overhead becomes your safest option. happy days,

 

 

[Yenn]

I hadn;t realised that i have been doing it wrong for years. I have been using 126.7 at non WAC depicted strips, incluing my home base.

 

I doubt that area would want me and all my mates broadcasting what we were doing in the circuit area on their already busy frequency.

 

One problem we do have is that YGLA is 15 miles fron home and it has a discrete frequency, so if we take off towards YGLA we need its frequency pretty quickly, plus Gladstone traffic will not be on 126.7 until they have passed us, if at all. So far it works well, but there is the occasional low flying float plane or chopper from Glastone that flies over us without hearing us. See and avoid. It works.

 

 

[poteroo]

This frequency business is with us again following an article in The Australian 14th August.

 

CASA are still holding that CAAP 166-1 is what we must follow, and that is what Jill Bailey has sent out as RAAus C119/4.

 

In both these documents - the default frequency (for a non-depicted location without a discrete frequency) is 'area'

 

However, AIP ENR puts it differently, with the default frequency as 126.7

 

My interpretation some 2 posts above is incorrect - (although I believe makes more sense).

 

Take this example:

 

We have an airstrip depicted on WAC, and in ERSA is shown as having no discrete frequency, (but is shown as 126.7), while only 8 nm away we have a busy private strip which is not in ERSA or depicted on WAC, or for that matter in the Country Airstrip Directory.

 

So, under the CASA system, I call taxying on the WAC depicted strip on 126.7 and call departure on 126.7. I then pop up on ML CEN with a call that I'm 5nm out from the private strip and give eta. I then make all the arrival calls on area, plus again when I depart. Can you just hear ML CEN going ballistic!

 

Well, it's getting late - so I'd better close before typing a comment that I might later regret.

 

We have a CASA safety seminar here next Wednesday, and this will be on the agenda. Betcha they can't satisfactorily explain how it all improves safety.

 

happy days,

 

 

[frank marriott]

We have a CASA safety seminar here next Wednesday, and this will be on the agenda. Betcha they can't satisfactorily explain how it all improves safety.

 

Poteroo

 

I raised this at a seminar 12 months ago, (in my example locally the area freq out to 36DME is "approach freq" ) and although it was acknowledged that it has raised a lot concerns the "individual who wrote the CAAP "insists it is correct so "don't' expect a change in the near future" was the reply.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

You have to be on the ball in some areas.

 

Like around Gatton Qld flying into Caloundra over the Somerset dam wall. I have to monitor 127.65 Toowoomba, watts Bridge. 127.3, Kilroy 127.6 and Caloundra/Cabooltcha 118.8

 

Easy to miss inbound calls, obviously transmit my position, heading, height etc to the near strips.

 

There are probably plenty of other areas where planing your calls are most important.

 

Phil.

 

 

[coljones]

I guess that if a strip is not published anywhere that you would normally see it then you might not know that it exists so therefore you wouldn't be listening on 126.7 if you were in the area. You would, instead, be listening on Area Frequency, as one does. It doesn't matter if CTR would like to go ballistic, they don't, under this CAAP, have that option.

 

Out in the country we are entitled to fly along at 500 feet, and above, right through the middle of an unmapped circuit if you are in the wrong spot. It would well behove the owners and users of the strip to use a frequency that inadvertant interlopers might be on in order to advise their operations and attendant danger.

 

Where I am at a loss, is what I would do if someone gave a circuit call for somewhere that I didn't know to a location not marked on any map on my knee. "All traffic Dog Breaths Creek .........". But, at least, if we were both on Area I could respond to the call and ask. safety is much more important than a bit of radio congestion. There are some times, when I am tuned to SYD CTR, that I am convinced my radio isn't working until someone makes a call. There are times when it is busy but never to the extent that it is at Banktown and you are busting to get a clearance from the reporting points, particularly if one is busting to get to the loo.

 

 

[poteroo]

We have a CASA safety seminar here next Wednesday, and this will be on the agenda. Betcha they can't satisfactorily explain how it all improves safety.Poteroo

 

I raised this at a seminar 12 months ago, (in my example locally the area freq out to 36DME is "approach freq" ) and although it was acknowledged that it has raised a lot concerns the "individual who wrote the CAAP "insists it is correct so "don't' expect a change in the near future" was the reply.

I guess that CASAs' inability to make simple rulings on frequencies explains why the rewrite of CARs to CASRs has taken 10 years and $300m or thereabouts. I expect that this Wednesdays questioning will elicit the same response. Well, it will make for a very good question to ask during a BFR:thumb up:

 

happy days,

 

 

[ben87r]

Isn't it 20 years?

 

 

[Downunder]

I guess that CASAs' inability to make simple rulings on frequencies explains why the rewrite of CARs to CASRs has taken 10 years and $300m or thereabouts. I expect that this Wednesdays questioning will elicit the same response. Well, it will make for a very good question to ask during a BFR:thumb up:happy days,

Just had my BFR and was asked......lol.......yeah, bit of head scratching.( From both of us)

 

 

[Yenn]

If we should be using area frequency, when flying for example between airstrips 50nm apart which use 126.7, why did area question me as to why I was on their frequency, when I was not in controlled airspace. they got back to me telling me control height, where I was was above my present level. It has only happened once, last weekend, but it makes amockery of being on area frequency. I will continue to use area, but only for listening unless there is a dangerous situation.

 

 

[coljones]

If we should be using area frequency, when flying for example between airstrips 50nm apart which use 126.7, why did area question me as to why I was on their frequency, when I was not in controlled airspace. they got back to me telling me control height, where I was was above my present level. It has only happened once, last weekend, but it makes amockery of being on area frequency. I will continue to use area, but only for listening unless there is a dangerous situation.

Area frequency has nothing to do with controlled airspace. Area frequency is for everyone in the "AREA"

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Area frequency has nothing to do with controlled airspace. Area frequency is for everyone in the "AREA"

A lot of the time the frequency is also combined with frequencies in controlled airspace, monitored by the same controller

 

 

[DWF]

A lot of the time the frequency is also combined with frequencies in controlled airspace, monitored by the same controller

ALL Area frequencies are monitored by an Air Traffic Controller.

 

Inside CTA the ATC controls the aircraft.

 

OCTA the ATC is responsible for providing flight information such as amended weather or notams, etc.

 

Under the procedures promulgated in Notam C119/14 you are entitled, indeed required, to broadcast on the appropriate Area frequency.

 

 

 

One could ask what is the appropriate frequency to use at "Fred's Farm" airstrip which is not marked on the charts but in within 10nm of a CTAF aerodrome requiring broadcasts?

 

I would (do) use the CTAF but there could well be others who interpret the notam literally and be on the Area frequency.

 

 

 

Personally I think the Notamed procedure is not the right way to go and has opened another big can of worms.

 

 

 

DWF

 

 

 

[pmccarthy]

If you make an inbound call to unmarked strip on the Area Frequency around here you are likely to get rapped over the knuckles. Area is for the big boys in and out of Tullamarine and for other IFR traffic.

 

 

[Camel]

If you make an inbound call to unmarked strip on the Area Frequency around here you are likely to get rapped over the knuckles. Area is for the big boys in and out of Tullamarine and for other IFR traffic.

Approach frequency is used around controlled airports not area. When things aren't busy you may find the frequency linked together by the controller (area and approach). You would only need to make an inbound call to a strip if it was recognised as an ALA, so if it's not marked as a strip why bother, monitor traffic, if anyone is of any concern, make a call on area. In the days before multi-com 126.7 , those strips without frequency had calls made on area frequency, there was a big fly-in in southern nsw in the early 90's and CASA came a few days later for a please explain but they themselves got into hot water so no more problem. No one will wrap you over the knuckles for trying to be safe, if they do they are likely to get in hot water as the CASA people did years ago.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Approach frequency is used around controlled airports not area. When things aren't busy you may find the frequency linked together by the controller (area and approach).

 

Camel

 

Not everywhere e.g. the area freq out to 36DME from YBTL is the approach freq of 126.8 so should be monitored. Traffic OCTA below the CTA steps use multicom 126.7 - to be fair most [if not all] private strips within this area are within 10nm of a marked ALA anyway.

 

ATC have the capability to call you on 126.7 should the occasion be necessary. For transponder equiped aircraft, at least, ATC will call you on approach freq if, for example, they think you are heading towards an active restricted area and if no answer [for aircraft not monitoring the area freq] have been known to call on 126.7. This being a "service" for traffic on the correct frequency as it is not their responsibility to keep OCTA traffic out of Resticted areas/CTA, but if not busy they offer the advice anyway.

 

It would not be expected for OCTA traffic going to "Bill's Farm" to give inbound etc calls on the approach freq [even though it is also the area freq] resulting in delays for traffic trying to make contact with control prior to entering CTA.

 

Monitor the approach/area freq for awareness of traffic entering/leaving CTA but do traffic calls on multicom 126.7 is the most logical.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Approach frequency is used around controlled airports not area. When things aren't busy you may find the frequency linked together by the controller (area and approach).Camel

 

Not everywhere e.g. the area freq out to 36DME from YBTL is the approach freq of 126.8 so should be monitored. Traffic OCTA below the CTA steps use multicom 126.7 - to be fair most [if not all] private strips within this area are within 10nm of a marked ALA anyway.

 

ATC have the capability to call you on 126.7 should the occasion be necessary. For transponder equiped aircraft, at least, ATC will call you on approach freq if, for example, they think you are heading towards an active restricted area and if no answer [for aircraft not monitoring the area freq] have been known to call on 126.7. This being a "service" for traffic on the correct frequency as it is not their responsibility to keep OCTA traffic out of Resticted areas/CTA, but if not busy they offer the advice anyway.

 

It would not be expected for OCTA traffic going to "Bill's Farm" to give inbound etc calls on the approach freq [even though it is also the area freq] resulting in delays for traffic trying to make contact with control prior to entering CTA.

 

Monitor the approach/area freq for awareness of traffic entering/leaving CTA but do traffic calls on multicom 126.7 is the most logical.

Similar to Cairns, the Area freq within 36DME is 126.1 which is also Cairns Approach. Civil ATC don't have the capability to call 126.7 though must be a military thing.