"Jaberoo" down (Mildura this time)

[AVOCET]

Plane driver , yea thats the first one taken over Temora 2011 nat fly , you can see the different turret .

 

The sport pilot mag took the photo for front cover , but was not used due to my lack of advert $$

 

 

[AVOCET]

Ue

 

Not publicly maybe, but surely he'd not be that silly to not keep in touch in the background. Shhh!

yea , I've got my theory.!

Don't worry rod ,

 

 

[dutchroll]

A history of engine failures in one particular aircraft type in a commercial company would cause a massive sh*tstink. I know - I've actually observed one in my own company not long ago!

 

Yeah I know it's "only" GA/RAAus, but sheesh......

 

 

[jetjr]

An out landing around Mildura in some directions sees lots of grape blocks full of trellis posts and wire

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Don't need to worry about them, its just like a USN Carrier landing without the stress of a small carrier flat top and the joys of using your nosewheel as an obvious replacement for the tail hook......

 

As they say if you have to ditch in the sea land along the swell line.....so too with grape trellises land along the wires which around Adelaide are as you would expect extensive.....

 

P.S your mileage may vary with this advice, for example you might get a long uneventful landing run or you may be the hung up type and get it all compressed into mere metres or seconds...which ever stops first......

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Glad he's ok. Not a nice situation hving to take tress instead of putting people at risk, imagine the repercussions, an raa acft has engine failure and kills golfer. Now imagine its foud to be due to a failure mode that is wel well well well documented and reported.. Scary stuff.

 

 

[SDQDI]

And around the golf course quiet a few houses and big patches of water although I don't know how wet they are at the minute if those lakes were dry they might be ok.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

If GMH had as many engine failures as jabirus it would be a national scandal , why hasn't CASA addressed the issue?Bewildered, Butch

 

 

[nong]

So Alf... Why do you carry on so, about Jabiru powerplants?

 

Many of us get good long term service out of these simple little donks. To us, your posts seem misplaced.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yeah he could have landed in the large cake that was on the 19th :) I just caught the end of this on the news and apparently the wing came off prior to his crash landing! I love the news reporting :)

That's consistent with Geoff's story - you're still flying if you're a metre or two above the ground and catch a tree.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Anyone have the statistics on how many people have died in engine failures involving Rotax and Jabiru engines?Remember there is no question that's stupid it's only the answer that is.

If you don't believe me have a look at most of the answers in these threads involving engine failures or the conclusion that everyone jumps to, oh it's a Jabiru that out landed that would be right, the engine would have failed.

 

Think about it this thread has turned into a morbid product bashing vehicle, let the experts deal with the problem stop trying to impress all and sundry with ones knowledge as there are only a couple who use this medium who really do have any expertise in these matters.

 

I act on fact and circumstance only not supposition and hearsay and any discussion based on that which appears in the newspaper I say is nothing more than hearsay.

 

That's my 2 bob's worth and if you don't know what a bob is go and ask someone over the age of 60.

 

And I don't apologize to anyone for my comments.

Rick, you're doing what you are arguing against; on this occasion there was an excellent explanati0n given directly by the pilot on national television. He covered the event from the time the engine started to run rough, and he did a great job of explaining what happened.

 

Since there are six of you, plus other posters that seem to think these stories are being made up, I'll make an effort to complete a summary of the other half of Pilot Notes reports on engine failures, so everyone can see the factual RAA report results, and that will take all the "bashing" out of it.

 

 

[rankamateur]

When some get a good run and can't understand how others can not without gross negligence. Others have one or two or three engine failures in the course of a half life of other engines and can't understand how anyone could continue to fly over built up areas and tiger country with them. Two polarised schools of thought and one unmentioned possibility - PRODUCT VARIABILITY.

 

 

[rick-p]

Turbs I'm not saying that the Media report is wrong what I am saying is that it is evidence of nothing. A proper and complete investigation should be conducted and a conclusion drawn using proper Judicial process.

 

You of all people will understand this.

 

I just get very annoyed, particularly after reading the post on mechanical reporting, which I started a few years ago, when what you constantly read is subjective comment not objective comment and certainly in a lot of cases it isn't constructive.

 

Some of you guys have a wealth of knowledge whilst others are just product bashers, the old Holden is better than Ford syndrome when it really comes down to simple semantics as to why one operates a Jabiru or 912.

 

These people need to listen to the experts and if 2 are in agreement with each other pursue that avenue.

 

Case in point, Nev and a very good friend of mine, who has serious qualifications, advised me to use 50ml of outboard motor 2 stroke oil, mineral if at all possible because it leaves a better residue than synthetic, to 20 litres of avgas and I'm now doing just that.

 

Since commencing to use it there has been a marked improvement in my motor's operation. Hand turning before start up, no soft valves and good compression always.

 

Compression in each cylinder is like new.

 

Cooling is not effected and remains well within the ranges I achieved when I installed an oil cooler and air-scoop which also assists with no carby ice, as I don't have installed one of the usual carby heat systems.

 

I was at that time having oil pressure problems because of having no oil cooler installed and the layered heat effect of the oil flowing through the system was effecting the viscosity of the oil at various junctures in the motor, it was thinning out and the pressure of course dropped.

 

Now the heat is much more evenly distributed throughout.

 

I installed the cooler on the advise of 2 experts one of which was an oil scientist, if one can call him that.

 

I think that we all need to get with the program and stop making observations that are founded in no more than the process of thinking out loud.

 

 

[alf jessup]

So Alf... Why do you carry on so, about Jabiru powerplants?Many of us get good long term service out of these simple little donks. To us, your posts seem misplaced.

Nong

 

I am happy you and others get good service out if them but there are plenty that don't

 

There seems to be no consistency in them and the factory cannot keep blaming the maintainers

 

There has to be as many bad maintainers persay who fly behind other brands that don't have the same failure rate

 

I keep wishing you and others good reliability with these as they are a fantastic aircraft

 

 

[Marty_d]

Anyone have the statistics on how many people have died in engine failures involving Rotax and Jabiru engines?

Most of the posts about Jabirus ("Jaberoo" if you're in the medya) talk about what a brilliant airframe it is and how the survivability is so high. With this in mind the fatality statistics are not an issue. Each and every time the fan stops in the air it's a potential fatality, both for the occupants of the aircraft and anyone on terra firma beneath them.

 

A better statistic would be a comparison of the numbers of times a particular engine type has stopped in midair, excluding all factors that were not due to the engine itself (empty tanks, carb icing, incorrect tank selection etc), and adjusted for the numbers of that type in operation so you're comparing apples with apples (eg number of failures per 1000 engines). Is this sort of data available anywhere?

 

It's understandable that nobody who owns a Jabiru wants discussion out there about how they keep failing. But this is reported news and so fair game for discussion. The result of this is that newbies to the hobby, like me, get the impression that Jabiru engines are less reliable than Rotax. Probably unfair, and it all depends on the history and maintenance of the engine you end up with, but that's the impression.

 

I'd like to see some hard data.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Its going to be years before all those dud Jabiru engines self destruct. Years.

 

 

[gandalph]

..... Now imagine its foud to be due to a failure mode that is wel well well well documented and reported.. Scary stuff.

Merv, the failures may be well " documented" or recorded but certainly not well investigated. What seems to be documented is the basic fact that an engine stopped because a through bolt failed, or a valve head dropped, or etc etc. what doesn't seem to be happening is an in depth investigation of WHY those events occurred. And until either the RAA or CASA undertake an in depth forensic investigation into each incident we won't get any further than we are now which is a very superficial understanding of the incidents. We certainly won't progress while ever we continue to get most of our exercise by jumping to conclusions in forum threads like this one.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

And until either the RAA or CASA undertake an in depth forensic investigation into each incident we won't get any further than we are now which is a very superficial understanding of the incidents. .

Couldn't agree more gandalph. My point is that i would hope this would happen BEFORE the above scenario takes place. or something like it.

 

It seems admitting theres a problem is the hardest step. And certainly not a step thats been taken by the manufacturer.

 

At least now the RAA have admitted it, lets get the problems fixed so the true potential of this aussie company can be realised!

 

 

[bexrbetter]

It seems admitting theres a problem is the hardest step. And certainly not a step thats been taken by the manufacturer.

Impossible, no manufacturer does, may as well shut the company down overnight if you did that.

 

 

[Camel]

it does not take an expert to tell you why they are failingJust ask Oscar

I would like to see your version of why they are failing, and Oscars.

 

 

[Bandit12]

Yeah he could have landed in the large cake that was on the 19th :) I just caught the end of this on the news and apparently the wing came off prior to his crash landing! I love the news reporting :)

I saw what you did there, and had a quiet chuckle

 

 

[turboplanner]

Merv, the failures may be well " documented" or recorded but certainly not well investigated. What seems to be documented is the basic fact that an engine stopped because a through bolt failed, or a valve head dropped, or etc etc. what doesn't seem to be happening is an in depth investigation of WHY those events occurred. And until either the RAA or CASA undertake an in depth forensic investigation into each incident we won't get any further than we are now which is a very superficial understanding of the incidents. We certainly won't progress while ever we continue to get most of our exercise by jumping to conclusions in forum threads like this one.

For a safety issue, Authorities stop at the "what happened" point. They then set a performance standard which loosely says "It must do this without fail".

 

In this way they are steering clear of liability.

 

It's then up to the manufacturer to spend his money rather than the taxpayers' to find the "why" and then correct it so it either doesn't happen again, or meets the new standard (New standards, or lifting the bar often occurs after a major accident or run of accidents.

 

We don't need to know the why, unless it relates to a part we service or assemble - we just need to know the issue has been fixed. Many car recalls work this way; one scared the hell out of me when the service manager let me in on the secret that tow bar welds had been fracturing, and caravans coming loose and making their way into paddocks.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Impossible, no manufacturer does, may as well shut the company down overnight if you did that.

BS - some examples are:

 

Eaton Transmissions - free rebuild at 600,000 km because of a known and bulletined issue.

 

Cummins Engines - new pistons on ten trucks in a fleet after providing a powerpoinmt presentation on exactly what the failure was, how many hundred engines were affected, and the replacement programme.

 

I have never hidden component failures from customers, and have never had one cancel an order or fail to order a new truck because of an issue.

 

Surely you've heard of Service Bulletins?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I can imagine the meeting between the RAA, CASA and Rod Stiff. Rod will rightly claim its not the job of the RAA to dictate standards to him when he has met the CASA ones.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Not entirely true FT. LSA are issued different COA's then type certified. Only a few jab models are type certified.