Beechcraft crashes after taking off, killing 2, caught on tape

[Downunder]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a06_1188732892

[Tony]

comments please

 

Thank you for posting this one. This is a 'classic' nightmare to see in real.

 

I would like to read a comment from experienced pilots about this one.

 

I fly Thruster T500, 17 hours so far.

 

 

[Guest JRMobile]

Be Warned

 

Graphic Images !!

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Most stuff on liveleak is graphic and uncut.

 

 

[Guest disperse]

im sitting here rather stuned.......looked to be plenty speed yet no fly ???

 

 

[Downunder]

I too would like to hear a "talk through" of this incident from experienced pilots.

 

What exactly is happening to the aircraft?

 

It may be graphic, but it's REAL.

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Too much weight I think mate. That, and a little bit of a cross wind. Could have been a warm day too and the old girl just was getting no lift. Could also be the engine was playing up. Did not read too much into the storyline.

 

 

[slartibartfast]

From what I've read and seen, it was a density-altitude issue. A very warm day and an over-loaded aeroplane. Seems he/she didn't abort while possible, then when it looked a little dodgy he/she tried to raise the nose and made it worse. Very scary, an understandable response, but wrong.

 

Lesson = do your calculations 1st. Check runway length against expected take-off distance for the take-off weight in the current conditions. All data required is in the manual for the plane.

 

Be prepared to abort if you aren't getting the expected acceleration on roll.

 

Feel free to correct any errors guys. I feel that there's an important lesson here. Scary and graphic footage, with the loss of 2 lives, should be learned from.

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

The things that I noticed were:

 

1. Long takeoff run with apparent "unwillingness" to fly;
    
    
   
2. Pilot appeared to "pick it up" rather than it flying off;
    
    
   
3. Instability in all axes after takeoff - appears willing to drop a wing and at one point appears very unstable in pitch;
    
    
   
4. Unwillingness to climb;
    
   

 

Makes you wonder if it wasn't both hot/high and also marginal C0G/Loading.

 

Interesting further thing: That accident looked fully survivable until the a/c hit the hill of sand/dirt. Just this last weekend my daughter and I were discussing two related issues: first that energy = mass * v sqrd so anything you can do to reduce v (slowly) in that situation is a goodness. And secondly because g is an acceleration and acceleration/deceleration beyond certain limits is what hurts the human body, it's important to avoid coming to sudden stops in a forced landing for instance. So if you are going to hit the fence on landing it had better be the upwind rather than the downwind fence; if you are going to hit an irrigation channel on your rollout then a groundloop is probably a better idea; and if it's the trees you are going for then sacrifice your wings as an aid to gentle deceleration. If you have a choice of soft ground or hard ground always go the hard ground. That lesson was learned in wheels up landings in WWII where hard surfaces reduced the risk of sudden stops and therefore enhanced the survivability. Virtually no one dies of a wheels up on a hard surface. And finally all of that is academic if the aircraft has ceased to fly so don't stall - fly the aircraft all the way into the crash.

 

We have great car conversations after her lessons:cool:

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Admin]

Gees Mike - do you have to wake your daughter up when you get home :confused:

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

Now then Ian...:big_grin:

 

She's always keen on a little light conversation after her lesson.

 

Seriously though it's usually triggered by her asking a question about something that's come up in her theory or that's come up in her lesson. We end up having a lengthy conversation complete with "what ifs" from her. Good fun.

 

Then she usually sleeps the last half hour.;)

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[bushpilot]

If u watch the movement in the bushes right in front of the camera - u can see there is tail wind happening as well.... Maybe it was a one-way strip??

 

 

[Guest disperse]

fly the aircraft all the way into the crash

.even with just 1 hour under my belt...this is a decission i have already made(after the blue mountains crash recently)

 

id rather fly into the tops of trees instead of spiraling nose first into the deck.

 

at least i could try and put the fusalage detween the trees and as suggested use the wings as brakes..

 

and i think that these things need to be thought and talked about ....because if ever your short of time you wont still be trying to make the decission WHEN IT IS MADE FOR YOU .

 

 

[John Brandon]

From what I've read and seen, it was a density-altitude issue. A very warm day and an over-loaded aeroplane. Seems he/she didn't abort while possible, then when it looked a little dodgy he/she tried to raise the nose and made it worse. Very scary, an understandable response, but wrong.Lesson = do your calculations 1st. Check runway length against expected take-off distance for the take-off weight in the current conditions. All data required is in the manual for the plane.

Be prepared to abort if you aren't getting the expected acceleration on roll.

 

Feel free to correct any errors guys. I feel that there's an important lesson here. Scary and graphic footage, with the loss of 2 lives, should be learned from.

Exactly. You must calculate TODR and TODA for the weight and density altitude and use all the runway - backtrack if necessary.

You can see by the wing rocking [a classic symptom of incipient stall] that the aircraft lifted off too early and never had a chance of reaching a safe flying speed.

 

John Brandon

 

 

[Tony]

I wish I knew what the Indicated Airspeed should be compare to what it was.

 

 

[lambadaman]

It looks like no flaps were deployed?

 

 

[slartibartfast]

I think you're right about the lack of flaps Lambadaman, and Bushpilot looks right about the tailwind. Quite a good one too.

 

It's never one thing that kills you is it?

 

This pilot was always on his way to the crash site.

 

 

[Captain]

I have found the vision and the subsequent discussion to be invaluable.

 

Perhaps some may say that such discussion shouldn't occur due to the fatalities and as a matter of political correctness, however as someone more eloquent than me said, we have to learn from the mistakes of others in this caper as, or so that, we won't get the chance to make them all ourselves (or something similar).

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Ben Longden]

I agree.

 

Ben

 

 

[crazy diamond]

What a shame looks like a nice A36. I'd say tail wind and overloaded on a hot day with a bit of cog issue also. A36's have 300HP they should be ready and willing to fly like crazy.

 

 

[blueshed]

I'd say Slati is Correct

 

Density alt, and not just airframe performance, the engine would also be way down on power. So if it was a density alt problem, the engine may have been producing maybe 70% or less of it's rated horse power!

 

Have only flown a Bonanza once, however believe, when overloaded they do tend to porpose(nose pitch up/down) i.e. become unstable, maybe if the driver had got rid of the drag and put the nose down it may have been a different story.

 

Keep Flying Guy

 

 

[facthunter]

Beechcraft T/O

 

From memory, the flaps on the beech are not too effective on take-off, and you probably could elect not to use them unless the ground was rough. The initial lift-off seems sort of OK, but what happens after that would seem to be the result of a wind reversal or power reduction/loss. I don't want to view this again, for obvious reasons, although as pilots we would like to know the causes as the same physical laws work for all of us. Nev..

 

 

[Guest J430]

A few of us have had a discussion on PPRUNE about the facts after a prelim report was released by the FAA, and while I have only flown a V tail a few times I have learnt a bit from a few VERY experienced Bonanza drivers.

 

Seems that depending on Model and the BEW (some are much heavier with a/c etc) the plane was at least a few kg over to maybe 10% over MTOW. Add to that a slight tail wind component (as others have spotted) and a high DA from the high temp and field height, this was not going to be easy.

 

I have also read from those who have operated there the valley its in provides plenty of down draught over the strip and this would have become apparent once off the ground.

 

I also wonder where the CofG was, on doing generic calc'sit would have been towards the rear of the envelope, but unless you have the correct data for that a/c you can not be sure.

 

Probably a good lesson here folks, for all of us.

 

As for flap on the Bo, you have a flapless TKOF however some folk have found when a short strip is needed you can get off the ground quicker with a tad of flap, but you better not need the normal climb rate.....

 

J

 

 

[Guest AVU]

My observations.

 

Low and slow will get you into trouble every time, more so if the density altitude is higher than expected. It appeared that the temperature was higher than anticipated, hence a thinner airmass requiring more speed to maintain directional control. Raising the nose only make matters worse (stalling). Remember, during your training sessions, turning finals, the steeper the turn the increase in stall speed is quite dramatic. The overall scene was traumatic to say the least. A lesson to be gleaned from this is "safe speed near the ground" it's vitally important.

 

Safe Flying.

 

Steve

 

 

[Flyer]

A timely reminder to remember the 5 P's of flying.....

 

Proper planning prevents poor performance

 

Phil