Cessna 120

[myshed2]

I am considering buying a Cessna 120. Its bleedin older than I am. I dont want to buy an antique but I dont mind buying something that's old if its fit for purpose. Apart from the obvious, what should I specifically look for ? The plane has rag wings and appears to be in good condition. Any information about this type of aeroplane would be appreciated (good or bad). It is registered 24 - XXXXX

 

Thanks, Dave

 

 

[aj_richo]

very old?

 

Bah humbug, good way to own an older aircraft with all the responsibility that that entails

 

If you're a kick the tyres, light the fires kind of person then its probably not the aircraft one should be looking at?

 

 

[myshed2]

If the RAA says that you cant maintain it in the future can you aford for a lame mechanic to look after it for you if that happens 1946 model 24 8085 very old !

I have no idea what you mean deborahlwayman.

 

 

[ave8rr]

I am considering buying a Cessna 120. Its bleedin older than I am. I dont want to buy an antique but I dont mind buying something that's old if its fit for purpose. Apart from the obvious, what should I specifically look for ? The plane has rag wings and appears to be in good condition. Any information about this type of aeroplane would be appreciated (good or bad). It is registered 24 - XXXXXThanks, Dave

Has the SIDS maintenance programme been completed? I understand this is required for ALL Cessna aircraft regardless of registration type I.e. GA or RAAus. SIDS have to be completed by Dec 2016 to remain airworthy.

 

 

[Mriya]

Yes I was about to mention SIDS also. This is now a expected part of the maintenance schedule that needs to be carried out.

 

 

[ozbear]

I am considering buying a Cessna 120. Its bleedin older than I am. I dont want to buy an antique but I dont mind buying something that's old if its fit for purpose. Apart from the obvious, what should I specifically look for ? The plane has rag wings and appears to be in good condition. Any information about this type of aeroplane would be appreciated (good or bad). It is registered 24 - XXXXXThanks, Dave

Well Dave

The biggest problem with older aircraft is corrosion and the cost of repairing it the 120 is the cheaper version of the 140 without flaps or electrics originally about $3000.00 us new as said earlier the SIDS compliance is also a big thing

 

 

[dazza 38]

I like the 120 advertised i was looking at it a week or so ago on the net. Looks really nice but since SIDS isn't mentioned in the add I can only assume it has not been carried out yet. Having it done would be a major selling point and would be listed I reckon.

 

 

[IanR]

You would have to research the SIDS for the 120 - it may not be as bad as the metal wing ones - not sure

 

 

[thommo]

I have spoken the the owner and SIDS are being carried out on the aircraft.

 

These older aircraft are in better condition then the later as they were all factory primed.

 

 

[myshed2]

Thanks Dazza / Ozbear / Thommo / Ian for your input.

 

Yeah, after talking to the owner I think a lot of the SIDS if not done has been confirmed as being passable. I didnt know that the earlier models had the corrsion protection. Thanks Thommo. The SIDS doesnt scare me so long as I can be confident (before purchase) that there is nothing that is going to either cost more than aircraft is worth to fix or cause the aircaft to be junked. What should I be looking for in a Lycoming that has 1300hrs to run?

 

 

[aj_richo]

Looks like the 100 series Cessnas in private use have until June 2016 to implement SIDS.

 

Some scary photos included in the AWB - http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/airworth/awb/02/048.pdf

 

 

[thommo]

120 hasn't got a lycoming. It's fitted with the 100hp 0-200A

 

 

[myshed2]

I got my Continentals mixed up with my Lyc's Thommo but good to see you are paying attention.

 

 

[myshed2]

Is there a LAME or AE out there that could give me ballpark figure for a full (and I mean FULL - SIDS on a 120.

 

Wings off, tail off, fuse panels off to get to specific areas.

 

 

[SDQDI]

My shed I'm not a LAME but I think you will find it nearly impossible to quote a figure, if you type SIDS into the search bar of the forum it will bring up a thread I think it's called "SIDS inspection on Cessna aircraft" there is some useful links and different prices there.

 

 

[dazza 38]

There is 11 pages on the SIDS on pprune. I just googled " how much is the SIDS inspection cost to be carried out." I don't go on Pprune, generally but there are a few LAME's on there in the comments. One mentioned the price varies between $8000 to $12000. PLUS any rectification work that needs to be carried out. Some scary stuff have been found in some aircraft that have been through the SIDS process.

 

 

[myshed2]

Thanks dazza appreciate that. I have seen the scary stuff you mention but at the same time there has been some scary stuff found on planes that are less than 5 years old that have been mistreated or not inspected properly. I was guessing that a ball park figure for a SIDS could be around 10 grand and that doesn't unduly scare me.

 

 

[IanR]

The SIDS documentation for each model is available on the Cessna website - what a number of people I know are doing is listing everything that has to be complied with and trying to link as much as possible into the normal inspection regime.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Going by the photos, the 120 mentioned looks like a lovely and well pampered aircraft.

 

 

[myshed2]

OK thanks Ian I will look up the SIDS for this model and see what it says. Yes dazza it does look like it has been very well kept. The owner sent me photos of the inside of the wings and the aluminium looks brand new. The metal however desn't look like it has had corrosion protection which surprises me as I though the early 120's did have.

 

 

[ozbear]

The biggest problem is where steel meets alloy dissimilar metals tend to corrode even without moisture present

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

OK thanks Ian I will look up the SIDS for this model and see what it says. Yes dazza it does look like it has been very well kept. The owner sent me photos of the inside of the wings and the aluminium looks brand new. The metal however desn't look like it has had corrosion protection which surprises me as I though the early 120's did have.

Used aircraft are always in demand in Australia so, unlike in the USA, old ones generally get rebuilt rather than scrapped.

 

The 1960 C172A that I sold recently was immaculate because it had been rebuilt to new condition several times and during its illustrious career had sported seven wings without ever being anything other than a monoplane. The only original wing part was one of the flaps.

 

Consequently the reason 'your' C120 wings aren't corrosion protected is probably because it has been damaged at some stage and had new wings fitted. You can often detect that by looking at the areas where the wing spars attach to the fuselage and look for new rivets, paint, panels etc. Not that there's anything wrong if it has been repaired provided the job was done by a reputable workshop, it often means other maintenance has been attended to at the same time.

 

Another thing to look for is creases in the rear fuselage, usually on the bottom surface, indicating hard landings or sudden stops. Being a taildragger the aft fuselage is somewhat stronger than the later nosedragger models so any creases would indicate it having had quite a significant beating. Again though, not a difficult thing to remedy.

 

I've not flown a C120 but have quite a few hours in the similar C140 and C170 and must say they are a delightful aircraft especially for those of us who like draggers and love to be able to fly s-l-o-o-o-o-w. The C120 has a slight handicap in that regard though, being the flapless version.

 

The biggest problem is where steel meets alloy dissimilar metals tend to corrode even without moisture present

For corrosion to occur I think you'll find you need moisture as an electrolyte.

 

120 hasn't got a lycoming. It's fitted with the 100hp 0-200A

I got my Continentals mixed up with my Lyc's Thommo but good to see you are paying attention.

I think you were half right Shed, the 120 came out with the C-85 and the C-90 or Lyc 0-235 were options I think. I don't think the 0-200 was ever on the Type Certificate so if this has one I guess it must be on an STC.

 

 

[myshed2]

Thanks Clouds, interesting and useul info. My problem with potentially purchasing this aeroplane and the previous one (or any one for that matter) is that I live in Perth and the planes never do. Would be nice to get information like all of the above, rush down to the plane and have a look and then continue research. As it is I have to get all of my ducks in a row (well as many as I can round up) come to some sort of non binding financial agreement with the current owner before seeing the plane, then go and have a look. Then depending on my unqualified impression, finding, hiring and arranging for a condition (SIDS) report while at the same time living in and paying for accommodation in an unfamiliar state / town. Gets expensive before any money even changes hands with the owner. We need a big shed located centrally in Oz, called something like, "Honest John's used aeroplanes" where they are all parked like a used car yard with a pink slip and a condition report. Would make it a lot easier.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Thanks Clouds, interesting and useul info. My problem with potentially purchasing this aeroplane and the previous one (or any one for that matter) is that I live in Perth and the planes never do. Would be nice to get information like all of the above, rush down to the plane and have a look and then continue research. As it is I have to get all of my ducks in a row (well as many as I can round up) come to some sort of non binding financial agreement with the current owner before seeing the plane, then go and have a look. Then depending on my unqualified impression, finding, hiring and arranging for a condition (SIDS) report while at the same time living in and paying for accommodation in an unfamiliar state / town. Gets expensive before any money even changes hands with the owner. We need a big shed located centrally in Oz, called something like, "Honest John's used aeroplanes" where they are all parked like a used car yard with a pink slip and a condition report. Would make it a lot easier.

Yes, that's one of the problems of being so far away but it does have its benefits too. Quite apart from the flying being better (incoming ....), as with yachts, cats and power boats, they're worth more over there when you come to the time to sell them because as you are now aware, the demand is there but the supply isn't.

 

I've bought a number of aircraft for myself and for organisations I've been piloting for, and usually all the preliminary search and inspections has been done for me by trusted people in the industry, and completed well before me hopping on a burner and going to have a look, test-fly, pay and fly it home, usually from one side of the country to the other. I haven't bought a lemon yet, gladly.

 

The important thing, of course, is to find the 'trusted one' and I've previously had the advantage of having had the engineers for my commercial ops scattered around the land, so if there hasn't been someone I know near to the prospect, then they've always known someone who is. An essential aspect is to have it looked at by someone completely independent and preferably someone who has never seen that particular aircraft before and is also an experienced pilot, so can test-fly it.

 

I guess your starting point would be to find that 'someone' - so where is the plane located?

 

 

[myshed2]

Its in Bairnsdale Victoria, Clouds. Do you know anyone there I could hire?