Airstrip closures

[M61A1]

I heard about this a few weeks ago, but then saw it on the news last night, where they also suggested that it would include airports and such. The whole idea is to legislate that there is no comeback for local councils (in QLD) when housing is built up around existing facilities, taking away any right of complaint when some git moves in next to your airstrip or racetrack.

 

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/work-of-assembly/petitions/e-petition?PetNum=2261

 

 

[turboplanner]

This is a petition, and as such is entitled to be tabled, and while each State Parliament is different, usually in the day's agenda the Clerk announces "the following petitions have been received, No 12435 from Motorsport etc....signed by 127 petitioners ....... and reads out the text, and at the end of this segment which from memory also includes other communications there's a Motion that the correspondence be tabled, and they get on to Question Time.

 

So I'm not a believer in petitions, but they calm people.

 

What does work, 100% of the time if people stick to their guns is EXISTING USE RIGHTS - no one can take these away from you, but time and time again I see people falling for the three card trick of entering dialogue, or participating in a new planning scheme which supersedes their Existing Use Rights, and they just give them away, because they didn't take advice.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Yup, please sign it as the foundation is the same as the complaints against airfields.

 

The amount of race car, motocross tracks that were way out of town disturbing no one and are now closed because people bought land and built houses next door is incredulous and it's happened and will happen to airfields.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Yup, please sign it as the foundation is the same as the complaints against airfields.The amount of race car, motocross tracks that were way out of town disturbing no one and are now closed because people bought land and built houses next door is incredulous and it's happened and will happen to airfields.

Happened on the Gold Coast, the Reedy Creek motocross track was in the middle of nowhere back in the early seventies. Now it is closed down because knob jockeys built their houses near it and then complained,even though they knew the track was there. I feel like riding my registered motorbike up and down the roads near the track, just to jack the owners off.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Happened on the Gold Coast, the Reedy Creek motocross track was in the middle of nowhere back in the early seventies. Now it is closed down because knob jockeys built their houses near it and then complained,even though they knew the track was there. I feel like riding my registered motorbike up and down the roads near the track, just to jack the owners off.

I do :)

 

 

[Keith Page]

What are you all moaning about.. Blackwater airport is miles from anybody and it can only be used by the RFDS........Others can not get permission.

 

The excuse "The strip is tooooooo dangerous for small aircraft. Give me some strength.

 

The real excuse the mining companies are dodging their responsibilities.. And the council is by way of monopolisation promoting Emerald airport.

 

Hence with all that in fighting there is a wasted airstrip.

 

Regards

 

KP.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

What are you all moaning about.. Blackwater airport is miles from anybody and it can only be used by the RFDS........Others can not get permission.The excuse "The strip is tooooooo dangerous for small aircraft. Give me some strength.

The real excuse the mining companies are dodging their responsibilities.. And the council is by way of monopolisation promoting Emerald airport.

 

Hence with all that in fighting there is a wasted airstrip.

 

Regards

 

KP.

Its private strip, used purely for company operations... Not quite the same as council strips getting shut due noise complaints.

 

Try getting permission to land on Dunk Island or Lizard Island up here in FNQ

 

 

[Keith Page]

Not quite correct, rhysmcc..

 

When the coal mines were opened up late 60's early 70's. Part of the deal of getting the coal lease the coal companies had to supply infrastructure -- namely *accomodation*roads*health services*etc.etc*airports were in the parcel..

 

Now the modern day gang get the councils and local residents via the councils to pay their infrastructure obligation.

 

Accomodation has changed -- to what it is now just by econnomic pressure because the stupid rents were out of this world.

 

e.g. The average rent in Blackwater is 25% of what it used to be, plus there are a number of houses are empty.

 

When the place was humming along there was an aeroclub and small aircraft were in and out -- there was even a RPT twice a day.

 

Regards

 

KP.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I was going off Ersa which has it listed as private aerodrome operated by BM Aliance Coal, rather then one owned or operated by the council.

 

I guess to me it's the same as farmer Joe down the road who has his own strip on his land but doesn't let others fly it, and why should he.. It's his hard work after all and it's on the line when others use it due to the PL environment we currently live in

 

 

[gandalph]

I feel like riding my registered motorbike up and down the roads near the track, just to jack the owners off.

I hope you mean "annoy"

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Happened on the Gold Coast, the Reedy Creek motocross track was in the middle of nowhere back in the early seventies. Now it is closed down because knob jockeys built their houses near it and then complained,even though they knew the track was there. I feel like riding my registered motorbike up and down the roads near the track, just to jack the owners off.

Yup, have raced at Reedy Creek a few times and Mum has even rolled a car on Old Coach Road (when it was all dirt), from the MX track, through the dip and go up to the top of the hill at the left hander (the best corner on the road) except she was coming the other way.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Happened on the Gold Coast, the Reedy Creek motocross track was in the middle of nowhere back in the early seventies. Now it is closed down because knob jockeys built their houses near it and then complained,even though they knew the track was there. I feel like riding my registered motorbike up and down the roads near the track, just to jack the owners off.

Like this? http://www.chonday.com/Videos/biketruload2#.U8avtmaMqKk.email

 

 

[Keith Page]

You are correct -- rhysmcc -- yes that is what ERSA says.

 

However ERSA dose not say " Aeroclub and community funded and installed the landing lights council has funded a major part of the repairs."

 

The airport is for the community as of the early mining agreement, now the smarties are trying to worm their way out of their responsibilities.

 

Now for a laugh of the day.

 

When all this closure rot raised its head, I started doing some research. I found people living in the old club house, as one should "I asked if you (BMA) had the club house rented out" The responce was some silly looks and was told I did not know what I was talking about. Previous to all this I had some inside information regarding the club house I have kept that information from the miners.

 

With all the information I informed BMA that they had an asset they did not know they had and they had squatters on their land.

 

Well that caused some confusion and discussions now I have to follow that up when all the smoke and dust settles.

 

I must hasten to add the squatters have quickly moved on, the quickest I have seen a mining company move.

 

Regards.

 

KP.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Like this? http://www.chonday.com/Videos/biketruload2#.U8avtmaMqKk.email

Good one Turbo..

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Like this? http://www.chonday.com/Videos/biketruload2#.U8avtmaMqKk.email

Its a bit passé sort of semi expected with a motorcycle....Have you got a similar one for a bobcat or an excavator? Now that one I'd pay to see!

 

 

[turboplanner]

You should see me do it in a J170!

 

 

[turboplanner]

Its a bit passé sort of semi expected with a motorcycle....Have you got a similar one for a bobcat or an excavator? Now that one I'd pay to see!

 

 

 

[Wjohnmid]

That's easy Turbo, I do it all the time.

 

Doing cuircits in a cross wind!! Now that's tricky.

 

W john

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just judgement, you'll pick it up quick e enough.

 

 

[Wjohnmid]

Thanks turbo, I'm just waiting on the bicycle moment.

 

W john.

 

 

[turboplanner]

It'll come

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

False advertising Tubs...I watched it all the way and then got to the end and realised I hadn't seen the promised loop!

 

Youtube did its thing and on seeing what I was watching then suggested that a similar approach but offloading from the top of a train wagon which had to have at least a meter or more on the one you posted was seriously impressive, especially as the dismount required the carriage to be shunted out from under the backhoe but just so that the bucket was still on the edge of the wagon.....too far and my hoped for loop may have been partially satisfied....I guess the backhoe operator was pretty trusting of the shunter...

 

 

[Rob Judd]

You are correct -- rhysmcc -- yes that is what ERSA says.However ERSA dose not say " Aeroclub and community funded and installed the landing lights council has funded a major part of the repairs."

The airport is for the community as of the early mining agreement, now the smarties are trying to worm their way out of their responsibilities.

The council in Croydon, Vic tried this bulldust when they decided to close the local swimming pool. My father went down there and pointed out that it had been built with donated funds, and since his name was on the brass plaque at the entrance he wasn't going to stand for it.

 

The kids of the area never knew how close they came to losing one of the few cheap forms of entertainment available.

 

 

[Ducks]

Doesn't matter where you go if there's money in it or if there's no money in it the people will sell it off or legislate against it for their own good.

 

I have seen my own mining company I work for close off our airstrip so they could expand their lease and deny it to those of us that could still benefit from its use only to waste the space by storing mining equipment on it.

 

I'm lucky that my new air strip is now Roebourne which luckily for me has had a bit of an upgrade to its surface and new markers installed....cheers

 

 

[turboplanner]

The power of Existing Rights Use I mentioned earlier applies when you own the airfield and want to keep it as an airfield.

 

It also is a powerful ally if you have a bulletproof lease with an owner for a set period of years.

 

However, in the examples Ducks is giving, where the owner of the airfield can sell it off for subdivision because he's the one with the Existing Use Rights, and the sale price of residential zoned land woill be enough to keep he and his family on the Gold Coast for life. The only chance you have of beating this is if there's a zoning change required for the subject land to be used for residential or Industrial.

 

The Peri-Urban (not quite rural/not quite urban) fringes of our cities often have zonings to protect some areas (Melbourne has Green Wedge Zones all the way into the City) and Tribunals will usually uphold these zonings and reject get rich quick schemes, if you do the preparation and presentations correctly.

 

However other than this if the airfield owner wants to sell then it's gone regardless of the protests.

 

The other, similar example, is where a Council owns the land, and here the airfield can be way out of town, but a Council can still decide to sell it.

 

The usual reason again is profit and the usual cause is a good old boy(s) getting to Councillors by persuasion or plain bribery, and I know one ex Councillor who took the ATO penalties for failing to submit tax returns for over a decade, but finished up with two blocks of residential land, and another who has finished up with one townhouse with more coming and an officer who finished up with two Units to rent out, had come from another location to follow a developer, and once he had the units moved to another location and got caught, and will also have free accommodation for some years. So don't underestimate the degree of crime people will get involved in.

 

I'm not saying every Council is like this, or even a few are like this, but it can happen.

 

Another reason for a Council wanting to sell their airfield is that a Councillor or Officer may have rationalized that they can make money by subdividing and then do other things with that money

 

They overlook the fact that an asset like an airfield cannot be replaced near the town.

 

In this case, you can mount a persuasion campaign with facts and figures, and show the Councillors the value of the asset to the town. The classic case where this was done was Van Nuys Airport in the urban area of Los Angeles, and the stand out method sued about a decade ago was selling the sizzle, not the steak, in the form of the video One Six Right (Youtube clip of part of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw_hosA8aTM) . I bought the DVD, and recommend doing that and using a similar theme for your airport. The Van Nuys Airport website is also very impressive.

 

Councils are also prone to the whims of some extremes in the community, simply because Councillors come from all parts of the community, so it's necessary to provide positive reinforcement on a regular basis (not just when the momentum has built up to sell the airfield).

 

From recent threads you can see this being done by Victoria's Minister for Aviation who is quietly instilling understanding within rural Councils of the strategic importance of their assets.