CASA Flight Review in RA-AUS aircraft

[rhysmcc]

Hoping someone might know the answer to this or can point me in the right location.

 

I'm trying to work out whether a pilot holding a certificate with RA-AUS can conduct the flight review required for the issue of a RPL (Come 1st of Sept) in a RA-AUS registered aircraft.

 

Lets assume both the pilot and the examiner are qualified on the aircraft, and the examiner also holds CFI ratings both with CASA and RA-AUS. The aircraft is also suitable for training and meets the requirements for controlled airspace.

 

The current (draft) application form for a RPL has a box to tick that says: "Aircraft used was suitable for a RPL(A) flight test - CASR 61.245 and Part 61 MOS".

 

CASR 61.245 mentions:

 

"(1) The flight test for a flight crew licence, rating or endorsement must be conducted in:

 

(a) an aircraft or an approved flight simulator for the purpose; and

 

(b) if the flight test is for a rating or endorsement that is limited to a particular category, class or type of aircraft:

 

(i) an aircraft of that category, class or type; or

 

(ii) an approved flight simulator for that category, class or type of aircraft."

 

Aircraft isn't defined in the CASR 61, however aeroplane is in 61.025

 

"

 

Aeroplane

 

means an aeroplane that has flight controls providing control of the aeroplane in 3 axes."

 

I can't find anything in the MOS 61, so what am I missing. Can you conduct the review in a RA-AUS aircraft, and if not where does it say it?

 

 

[turboplanner]

I doubt it, this is a GA designation as we've said a few times. Call up your local CASA FoI to get a definitive answer.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I have done BFRs in both RAAus and GA aircraft with a CFI who was qualified in both. GA recognised the RAA BFR and vice versa. It should be the aircraft you usually fly if possible.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

an RAA plane is not an aeroplane as silly as that sounds

This is exactly what I'm after, so where is it written down?

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I have done BFRs in both, CASA does not require two BFRs. Looking back in my logbook;

 

2009 done in GA, the stamp says ïn accordance with CAR 5.81

 

2011 done in RAA, stamp says ïn accordance with CAR 5.81"

 

2013 done in GA, stamp says ïn accordance with 5.81"

 

 

[ave8rr]

I have done BFRs in both RAAus and GA aircraft with a CFI who was qualified in both. GA recognised the RAA BFR and vice versa. It should be the aircraft you usually fly if possible.

RAAus will accept the GA BFR. A GA AFR HAS to be carried out in a VH registered aircraft and conducted by a grade 1 or 2 instructor. The VH registered aircraft can be experimental. The AFR should be done in the aircraft type that most of the applicants flying will be done in.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I have done BFRs in both RAAus and GA aircraft with a CFI who was qualified in both. GA recognised the RAA BFR and vice versa. It should be the aircraft you usually fly if possible.

That wouldn't surprise me in the least; but it wasn't the question and there's a penalty over a thousand dollars relating to that log book.

 

Better to spend the few cents it costs to pick up the phone, and talk to the people who matter.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

AFR? Isn't GA also a BFR?

 

 

[ben87r]

Nope. AFR now

 

 

[440032]

Civil Aviation Act: Part 1

 

Australian aircraft means:

 

(a) aircraft registered in Australia;

 

(it USED to say "on the Civil Aircraft Register" - which is VH only)

 

==========================================

 

CASA Aircraft Register Procedures Manual

 

2. Registration of Australian Civil Aircraft

 

2.3.2 Registration of Ultralight Aircraft

 

Ultralight aircraft are identified by a series of unique numbers constituted by the prefixes “10-“, “19-“, “24-“, “25-“, “28-“, “32-“, “55-“, followed by 4 digits. Theses prefixes are assigned according to the classification defined in the CAOs, 95.10, 95.55, 95.32, 101.28 and 101.55.

 

Whilst ultralights do not use the ICAO issued Australian prefix “VH” and they are not

 

registered in accordance with the provisions of the CASRs, CARs or this Manual, ultralight aircraft are considered to be Australian aircraft.

 

===========================

 

Can you use it (RA-Aus machine) for AFR as the question relates?

 

Is it an aircraft? YES.

 

The RPL is about skills demonstration, competency based they call it. You can equally demonstrate those skills in a VH or RA-Aus aircraft. Your level of competency will not change.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

I doubt it, this is a GA designation as we've said a few times. Call up your local CASA FoI to get a definitive answer.

I doubt you'll get a definitive answer there either for now.

I suspect that what you are asking will be possible, in the short term finding someone to do it might be the hard part.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

if this is correct i can do my ppl afr in a thruster and then fly in my friends bonanzahow does that sound to you?

 

as long as my instructor has his RAA ticket too

Yes, that is correct. Assuming you have the necessary Bonanza GA experience.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Finding a grade 2 or 1 prepared to sign a GA AFR in a thruster might be the limiting factor.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Civil Aviation Act: Part 1

Australian aircraft means:

 

(a) aircraft registered in Australia;

 

(it USED to say "on the Civil Aircraft Register" - which is VH only)

 

==========================================

 

CASA Aircraft Register Procedures Manual

 

2. Registration of Australian Civil Aircraft

 

2.3.2 Registration of Ultralight Aircraft

 

Ultralight aircraft are identified by a series of unique numbers constituted by the prefixes “10-“, “19-“, “24-“, “25-“, “28-“, “32-“, “55-“, followed by 4 digits. Theses prefixes are assigned according to the classification defined in the CAOs, 95.10, 95.55, 95.32, 101.28 and 101.55.

 

Whilst ultralights do not use the ICAO issued Australian prefix “VH” and they are not

 

registered in accordance with the provisions of the CASRs, CARs or this Manual, ultralight aircraft are considered to be Australian aircraft.

 

===========================

 

Can you use it (RA-Aus machine) for AFR as the question relates?

 

Is it an aircraft? YES.

 

The RPL is about skills demonstration, competency based they call it. You can equally demonstrate those skills in a VH or RA-Aus aircraft. Your level of competency will not change.

Thanks, that's what I've been trying to find.

 

 

[68volksy]

An instructor issuing an RPL is signing off that you are competent to fly all aircraft up to 1500kg max take-off weight. You would simply not be able to prove competency in this if you were flying a thruster. The instructor has a responsibility to assess competence and this could simply not be done if there was a big variation between the types. If you have a good history with that instructor and time in heavy aircraft under your belt it might be a different matter...

 

Another consideration by the sound of it for those converting is the candidate proving competence with what maintenance is allowed to be done by the holder of an RPL and ensuring they understand the responsibilities they're accepting when they sign the maintenance release.

 

 

[kaz3g]

I have done several two-yearly flight tests in an RA aircraft and had both my GA and RA licences renewed. My school does both GA and RA training.

 

I did my AFR last year in a C182 Retractable and this did not serve to renew my RA certificate.

 

Kaz

 

 

[dazza 38]

An instructor issuing an RPL is signing off that you are competent to fly all aircraft up to 1500kg max take-off weight. You would simply not be able to prove competency in this if you were flying a thruster. The instructor has a responsibility to assess competence and this could simply not be done if there was a big variation between the types. If you have a good history with that instructor and time in heavy aircraft under your belt it might be a different matter...Another consideration by the sound of it for those converting is the candidate proving competence with what maintenance is allowed to be done by the holder of an RPL and ensuring they understand the responsibilities they're accepting when they sign the maintenance release.

Although some pilots do their PPL test is a VH registered LSA like a sportstart or similar.

 

 

[Camel]

Although some pilots do their PPL test is a VH registered LSA like a sportstart or similar.

Dazza, whats a Sportstart ? or is that a spelling mistake.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Dazza, whats a Sportstart ? or is that a spelling mistake.

Bloody Ipad. Sportstar

 

 

[coljones]

61.400 Limitations on exercise of privileges of pilot

 

licences—flight review

 

(1) For this Part, successful completion of a flight review for a

 

rating on a pilot licence requires demonstration, to a person

 

mentioned in subregulation (2), that the holder of the rating is

 

competent in each unit of competency mentioned in the Part 61

 

Manual of Standards for the rating.

 

(2) For subregulation (1), the persons are as follows:

 

(a) CASA;

 

(b) the holder of an approval under regulation 61.040 for this

 

regulation;

 

© a pilot instructor who holds a training endorsement that

 

authorises the person to conduct flight training for the

 

rating.

 

(3) The flight review must be conducted in:

 

(a) an aircraft that can be flown under the rating; or

 

(b) an approved flight simulator for the flight review.

 

 

The Flight Review must be conducted in a plane that the pilot has a CASA rating for - 61.400 3(a) so an RAA BFR is not sufficient for a CASA Flight Review.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Not so. It is common practice.

 

 

[coljones]

Part 61 applies from September.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

The AFR form is lodged with CASA and it shows RAAus aircraft reg. They accept it.

 

 

[kaz3g]

That was what the CFI said. It also fits with the CASRs that allow RA time to be credited to your GA training, but there is no legislated reciprocal of which I'm aware.

 

Kaz

 

 

[djpacro]

Part 61 AFR notification form just has VH-___