Aircraft being built

[RJ601]

Hi there, is there anyone around that has signed up for or taken possession of a Brumby High wing recently.

 

I would like some feed back. Ours will have a Rotax 912iS / 10.5 MGL Glass cockpit / 2 Axis Auto Pilot / Oleo nose wheel std / 600 x 6 groove wheels / Upgraded radio to Icom / Trig Mode S Transponder / Ipad Mini fitted with dual USB & back up battery / Cabin heat / Park brake / Comb Strobe and beacon / Land light / a couple of round gauges / Glove box and a few other bits and pieces.

 

As we have a grass strip about 650M with tall trees at one end my list of Aircraft was limited, I have tried and flown a number of other imports but I could not fault the quality and strength of the finished Brumby product.

 

Look forward to hear from other more recent Brumby owners. I have heard of a few problems in the earlier versions but hopefully they are or have been ironed out by now.

 

Cheers Rod

 

 

[RJ601]

This forum has made it easy to make contact with some members on the Brumby order book. Thanks for the information and feed back. Loved the photos of Vev's new Red Black & White Brumby 610 he sent me, he said it was delivered about a week ago, he has offered to take me for a flight out of Tyabb, I look forward to taking him up on his offer in October, his Aircraft does look great and he said it has lived up to his expectations. We look forward to our 610 being manufactured and delivered.

 

RJ

 

 

[rankamateur]

So RJ601, did you mean to be RJ610? Or are you crossing over from the low wing dark side?

 

 

[RJ601]

Ha Ha, ? Was it a Typo or was it code for my age on joining this forum, if we ever meet you will find out, at least it got me a response, are you a Brumby flyer or are you waiting in the Brumby Queue or maybe just following Brumby Aircraft in general

 

RJ

 

 

[SDQDI]

I haven't seen a brumby in the flesh but by most accounts they sound like a nice well built machine. What state are you in RJ?

 

 

[rankamateur]

I am half finished building one like my avatar, just ninety percent to go!

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Brumby high wing is a nice machine...well built and very spacious cabin. Just had one go through Inghan NQ on way around Australia...retired Qantas pilot apparently. I watch him depart and it certainly got along...Rotax 912...............Maj...

 

 

[RJ601]

Thanks Maj, great to read your comments, hopefully in the not to far away future we'll also be heading off around mainland Aus and Tassie. Nice to hear of yet another High wing Brumby successfully getting about and being noticed.

 

H'm Retired Qantas Pilot in a Brumby High wing with Rotax 912, that gives me confidence re our purchase, wonder if it was the fuel injected model.

 

thanks

 

RJ

 

 

[poteroo]

Well, things appear to be moving with the Rotax 912 engine models. The concept of offering endless options on a new model has not proven too satisfactory in Brumbys' business to date- (IMHO). The Lycoming was an unproven model and probably should have remained as a prototype until all the bugs were sorted...but that's history now. They were sceptical of using the 912iS engine over a year back, and that convinced me to keep it all standard. Ditto with the Dynon Skyview v's the well proven D180 or D100/120 combo.

 

It appears to me that the secret with this model Brumby will be to keep it light. No tundra tyres, no autopilots, no full analog panels, no duplicate panels, and no heavy strobe or landing light kits. A BEW of 360 kg would be acceptable because you'll then have 240 kg disposable. For travel purposes, full fuel of 140L will use 100 kg of the load, leaving you 140 kgs for people and bags. For me that works well as my bride is only 45 and I'm 75 - so we have 40 kgs for baggage. For training - I intend to run it with no more than approx. 60L fuel (=approx. 40kgs ) - leaving 200kgs for pilot + pax. (NB: weights are all rough calcs - plse, no pedantic corrections!)

 

Henry Ford, the creator of the production line, emphasised these 3 essentials - the product must be cheap, strong and have few options. Hence his famous quote: 'you can have any colour you like - as long as it's black'

 

 

happy days,

 

 

 

h

 

 

[rgmwa]

Not being pedantic Poteroo, but I think you plus bride plus full fuel leaves only 20kg for baggage, not 40?

 

rgmwa

 

 

[poteroo]

Not being pedantic Poteroo, but I think you plus bride plus full fuel leaves only 20kg for baggage, not 40?rgmwa

you are correct - 20kgs it is. Sufficient for a long w/e anyway.

 

 

[Geoff13]

I dont think I would like a Black Aircraft.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Thanks Maj, great to read your comments, hopefully in the not to far away future we'll also be heading off around mainland Aus and Tassie. Nice to hear of yet another High wing Brumby successfully getting about and being noticed.H'm Retired Qantas Pilot in a Brumby High wing with Rotax 912, that gives me confidence re our purchase, wonder if it was the fuel injected model.

thanks

 

RJ

No I think just 100 HP 912 from what I saw.....3 blade Sesenich prop.....

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

It's one Aussie product I'll support...not that they'll need that support now that they've got the big contract with China..........Maj...

 

 

[poteroo]

It's one Aussie product I'll support...not that they'll need that support now that they've got the big contract with China..........Maj...

Would think they may not need support, as in government assistance, but the marketplace is becoming crowded with many new aircraft in this category. If this, or any other Federal government, really wished to provide incentives - they could perhaps begin by applying incentivisation to purchase and operate 'Aussie built' in all flying schools. It would be possible to link student pilot assistance to a school operating Aussie built aircraft, and to amend tax treatment for these same aircraft. Not all that difficult - all it needs is for the Nats & Libs to pluck up some guts and make sound decisions instead of squabbling in Canberra.

 

A 'Chinese' contract for however many, (280?), units, to be delivered in China is probably easier to achieve than selling 40 units in Australia? That's been a good achievement by Brumby, and I sincerely wish them success.

 

On the local side, however, it's difficult to predict just what the Aussie market is for a $125k LSA aircraft - given that these can be registered GA or RAAus. The Aussie market requires marketing to individuals, because it's truly private enterprise - and this isn't cheap because of the Aussie geography. IMHO, they have a very competitive design, but need to capitalise on the good name it already has in the local marketplace.

 

Brumby does receive 'support' locally - from local government - as well it should if they are serious about local employment. In terms of pilot support,many of my fellow pilots and aircraft owners are 'serial' supporters of Aussie manufacturers. For many, a Brumby will replace, or add to, a Jabiru. In my case, I've owned a Victa 100, then a J160, and am going back for my 3rd Aussie type. I believe that the market is out there - but it needs to be developed and satisfied.

 

Enough of these idle pilot musings on a wet morning. happy days,

 

 

[Geoff13]

Would think they may not need support, as in government assistance, but the marketplace is becoming crowded with many new aircraft in this category. If this, or any other Federal government, really wished to provide incentives - they could perhaps begin by applying incentivisation to purchase and operate 'Aussie built' in all flying schools. It would be possible to link student pilot assistance to a school operating Aussie built aircraft, and to amend tax treatment for these same aircraft. Not all that difficult - all it needs is for the Nats & Libs to pluck up some guts and make sound decisions instead of squabbling in Canberra.

At the risk of upsetting you, name me an Australian made RAA Registered aircraft that can carry the average Aussie with an instructor and a bit of fuel. They might be ok doing circuits but take one on a 4 hour nav like I did today in a J230 or a Brumby and you would need three fuel stops with a 100kgs pilot and passenger at 80 plus. These ae not unreasonable weights when the average Aussie comes in around those figures. Sorry but give me a plastic fantasic as some like to call them but I need a 280 kgs payload to go anywhere.

 

Dont get me wrong. I would love to buy Australian made. There are 2 holdens parked in my driveway but first Aussie must match the market, and at the moment they dont. 360 plus kgs empty weight on a Brumby simply does not work for anyone who wishes to stay within the rules. Much the same for a 350 kg J230 not to mention the reliability of the later.

 

 

[poteroo]

At the risk of upsetting you, name me an Australian made RAA Registered aircraft that can carry the average Aussie with an instructor and a bit of fuel. They might be ok doing circuits but take one on a 4 hour nav like I did today in a J230 or a Brumby and you would need three fuel stops with a 100kgs pilot and passenger at 80 plus. These ae not unreasonable weights when the average Aussie comes in around those figures. Sorry but give me a plastic fantasic as some like to call them but I need a 280 kgs payload to go anywhere.Dont get me wrong. I would love to buy Australian made. There are 2 holdens parked in my driveway but first Aussie must match the market, and at the moment they dont. 360 plus kgs empty weight on a Brumby simply does not work for anyone who wishes to stay within the rules. Much the same for a 350 kg J230 not to mention the reliability of the later.

I agree -you have a valid point re the weights. It's been fairly well covered in past threads about LSA being too restrictive, and that we should be pushing for 700kg, or even 750 kgs. There is no easy answer because the 600kg weight is now established and I can't see it changing. We have to live within our boundaries.

 

If you take a Brumby B610 at 360 kg BEW, add the more 'standard' 160 kg for 2 people, add 10 kgs extras - leaving 70k gs for fuel. At 18 LPH - you'll have space for about 100L of fuel = 5hrs 45 mins.

 

Work back the other way and give yourself 4:45 in the tanks,(4hrs + fixed res), = 85L = 62kgs. So 360 + 62 = 422 kgs which leaves you 178 kgs for people + bags. That's pretty generous. And it's getting close to your challenge numbers too.

 

I think you can do a somewhat similar set of numbers on the J230 where fuel burn is higher but speeds are too.

 

Whichever way you look at this weight limitation - the conclusion must be that playing with the fuel load is only fiddling at the fringes. So is trying to carve a few kgs off the BEW - there is a structural or operational limit to that. The disposable load has to be managed. Either we Aussies start slimming, or we go get an RPL, buy a C182, and load it up. The facts are indisputable - over 2/3rds of us are too heavy for our own good. Over the past 5 years, I've had to turn away 4 prospective students who could not fit into the J160. Much worse than that, 2/4 couldn't actually get themselves into the aircraft without my external help as a 'pusher'. (I had visions of those Tokyo train pushers:cheezy grin:) I know they'd never have made it into a C152, and maybe not even into our C172.

 

happy days,

 

 

[poteroo]

Brumby high wing is a nice machine...well built and very spacious cabin. Just had one go through Inghan NQ on way around Australia...retired Qantas pilot apparently. I watch him depart and it certainly got along...Rotax 912...............Maj...

He's now in Kununurra, WA. BTW - he's 90 years young! The Brumby is 24-8103, which is Brumbys' testbed aircraft and used for training through Cowra Aero Club. Many of us have had a test flight in it.

 

Hope he passes through here.

 

happy days,

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Wife and I are 200kg (me most of that) so 60 litres of fuel and no luggage. Another 50kg of payload would transform the flying experience, Rotax 912 has ample power for that and our 550 kg LSA airframe is good for 600kg without change. But the 600kg version has heavier undercariage and other non -structural changes that eat up much of the useful payload increase.

 

 

[rankamateur]

If you look at something like the WAC Spirit, the airframe is built for 750Kg maximum gross weight, so there must be LSA somewhere in the world with a population to drive production at that weight point, so it is only a matter of time and we will follow like sheep.

 

 

[poteroo]

Hi there, is there anyone around that has signed up for or taken possession of a Brumby High wing recently.I would like some feed back. Ours will have a Rotax 912iS / 10.5 MGL Glass cockpit / 2 Axis Auto Pilot / Oleo nose wheel std / 600 x 6 groove wheels / Upgraded radio to Icom / Trig Mode S Transponder / Ipad Mini fitted with dual USB & back up battery / Cabin heat / Park brake / Comb Strobe and beacon / Land light / a couple of round gauges / Glove box and a few other bits and pieces.

As we have a grass strip about 650M with tall trees at one end my list of Aircraft was limited, I have tried and flown a number of other imports but I could not fault the quality and strength of the finished Brumby product.

 

Look forward to hear from other more recent Brumby owners. I have heard of a few problems in the earlier versions but hopefully they are or have been ironed out by now.

 

Cheers Rod

G'day Rod. Just a query about linking your 912iS into the MGL EFIS/EMS. Rotax have not indicated anywhere that the iS model can be linked through any EMS other than their own - which looks a bit of 'unfriendly' gear. In any case, with any new bit of gear, it's often tempting fate by becoming the test pilot and that's why I kept away from the iS and the Dynon Skyview as a combo. Maybe on the next aircraft.

 

Also see you are going for an autopilot and bigger tyres - all of which add weight to your BEW. If you are a lightweight like myself - that's probably ok, but if you are 100kg and also have a heavy co-pilot - you might find yourself cutting fuel load down. Just a caution because a couple of the Brumby high wings with Lycomings have been loaded to the gunnels with stuff and have only a low fuel uplift. It would pay you to talk to Paul or Phil, and try to get all the weights for all the 610's already completed - plus what's inside them.

 

happy days,

 

 

[RJ601]

Update…. The fuselage looks good with the new 912iS fitted.

 

The following components have been fitted:

 

Steering push rods, Dual pedals, Master cylinder, Brake reservoir, Throttle cable, Oleo front wheel assembly.

 

Wings – Tail / Elevators have been manufactured.

 

Alloy fuel lines and a header tank are to be fitted.

 

All Dynon avionics with 3 dedicated knob controllers and 3 round gauges was to become our final choice. Brumby said that they have just recently installed there first 912iS engine with Dynon Avionics very similar to ours in a low wing.

 

They said that it flew perfectly and that they are very impressed with how smooth and responsive the iS engine is.

 

Our colour scheme has been sorted & so all is starting to come together.

 

Cheers RJ

 

 

[poteroo]

recently installed there first 912iS engine with Dynon Avionics very similar to ours in a low wing

Good to hear things are progressing. Luckily you're closer to Cowra than us and can get up there from time to time.

 

Dynon Skyview have CAN compatibility and so can link to the 912iS electronics - whereas the older Dynon D120, D180 units don't have CAN and so can't be linked up to an iS.

 

One instrument that I'm very pleased with is a PAI vertical card compass. It's very steady, accurate and easy for my students to read and cross check with the EFIS magnetic readout. Worth every cent.

 

We now have 120 hrs up on our Brumby.

 

cheers,

 

 

[poteroo]

 

 

 

 

[RJ601]

Cockpit pics are great, nice to hear your clocking up some hours, thanks for the heads up re the the PAI vertical compass card, It would certainly be a great addition to many cockpit layouts. I have been doing some reading on how to calibrate the SkyView compass. Another job on my to do list.

 

Cheers RJ