Tail Dragger Endo

[poteroo]

And if the wind is REALLY strong, it's possible (with care) to land ACROSS the strip. I've had to do this on occasion in my Auster. Tends to get people excited at a controlled aerodrome, though I've seen a Caribou practicing this at Richmond.

glad that this has been raised. When you angle into the wind, not only do you reduce the crosswind component - you also increase the headwind = less distance to stop. it needs practice. happy days,

 

 

[rankamateur]

I took some video a few years ago of cross strip landing on my strip. It was mowed 30m wide at the time. The full flap landing roll was 18m and the clean landing 23m. The videos are still down the bottom of Aerokits home page I think.

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

I was told doing around 200 tw landings is recommended for familiarity, would depend upon the aircraft though I imagine.

I did my PPL on Chippies, and I thought I could handle most conditions with them. Then I purchased an Auster III, to fly to & from work between Bankstown and Mittagong. It had an enormous position error, and no POH (ex-military); I managed to float the full length of the Bankstown 29 strip on my first attempt at landing there, because the cockpit placard showed an approach speed that was 15 kts too high. Also, the crabbed approach method that worked for the Chippie did not work for the Auster, because you could not judge when it would stop flying. It took me about 45 hours to master the thing - the correct speed, the correct technique (fly it in one wing low and fly it onto the ground tail up in that attitude). One day I left my wife in labour with our first child (at her direction) and went to work; couldn't stand the suspense by mid-day, so flew back to Mittagong, to be confronted by a windsock, bar taut at 90 degrees to the strip, with the last bit of it vibrating madly. I decided I was going to land the thing or break it; the landing worked, and I've never had a crosswind landing problem since.

Once you know how, a taildragger has better crosswind capability than most tricycle undercarriages. In really strong conditions, you may run out of rudder as it slows down, after the tail comes down, and it will then turn into wind; so it's prudent to allow room for that. But if it's that strong, better to land across if there's room enough.

 

 

[metalman]

I mentioned doing a landing across a strip to reduce the angle of a crosswind on another forum and copped a huge blast from a couple of " instructors" ,I've used the technique plenty of times when there's room and landed crosswinds that have the chooks laying the same egg twice. My last really tough landing was at Yarawonga, had one wing so low I thought it would touch before the tyre did,,wasn't pretty but I'm still using the same plane :-) I don't go looking for tough crosswinds ,but whenever I have to land in one I'm quite amazed at how capable the little jigger is.

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Instructors stop flying well before the crosswind gets that strong; they'd be fools not to, but that's a luxury one has when you're landing where you took off; one cannot always afford it if you are flying from A to B in something that has limited fuel margins. You can get local effects that result in a stronger crosswind at your destination than you expected; there are lots of locations for which you cannot get a TAF. If the conditions are marginal it's always advisable to have an alternative up your sleeve.

 

In strong wind conditions it is also important to consider the effect of obstructions in the vicinity that can cause variations in the wind direction and velocity near the ground; if the strip is located on open ground that is flat or sloping downhill gently away from the strip, the wind will usually be consistent all the way to the ground. But if the strip is downwind from a ridge or a hill, or trees, or even hangars or other sizeable buildings, there can be very considerable turbulence or major airflow disturbances that can occasionally exceed the control authority of the aircraft. Unless you have local knowledge of the effects of wind at your destination, be wary of such situations. A "slot in the trees" may shelter the strip, but a "gappy" treeline or an isolated hanger or two can make things decidedly unpleasant.

 

Hilly country can generate large-scale eddies in the lee of the hills that can cause a stall/spin; I've seen two cases of this, one close to my home, with a loaded agricultural aircraft, which burned to an unrecognisable heap; and one with a glider attempting an outlanding; the pilot survived with a crushed vertebra, only because he managed to impact on a patch of soft sand - the glider went into the ground up to the wing leading edges, and then bounced back out.

 

 

[WayneL]

I recall one interesting day doing circuits & bumps in a Drifter at Boonah with a strong crosswind.......sort of fun actually touching down on one wheel then powering on again for the next circuit all while balanced on that one wheel! Had sore leg muscles that night though from the intense rudder workout!

 

 

[facthunter]

I believe not ALL pilots go for the one wheel landing. I've found a few hard to convince. Highwing planes do it more convincingly, with more bank available. Gusty conditions still require a margin of extra speed for control as well as use of power being advantageous to touchdown at a precise point. Nev

 

 

[metalman]

Mmmm the wheeler -3point discussion ! At least we have a choice , and if you add the "wheeler -oh sh1t-3pointer" then there's a real variety to choose from :-)

 

 

[facthunter]

The intended wheeler that runs out of lift and just saved by rapid back stick probably uses ground effect. The effect of the ground coming at you produces the effect. Nev

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Not all aircraft of my experience are best landed by the wheeler technique - including most tricycle types; they are susceptible to "wheelbarrow" type loss of control, and are best landed by the crab method.

 

 

[metalman]

Not all aircraft of my experience are best landed by the wheeler technique - including most tricycle types; they are susceptible to "wheelbarrow" type loss of control, and are best landed by the crab method.

Never tried to "wheel" a tricycle on, the crosswind technique I was taught was to fly final aligned with the runway ( wing low) then touch down on one main wheel, the the other , then the nose wheel. When you think about it landing a tail dragger on one wheel isn't a much different process , one main, then the other ,then tail wheel .

 

 

[red750]

It was many years ago (more than 30) but I remember being taught to crab into wind down final, and kick into line with the runway below 10 feet, dropping the upwind wing slightly to prevent drifting offline. One of the best crosswind landings I ever did was using this method in a Bonanza B35. A greaser.

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Yep, that's how you land a Bonanza in a crosswind. If it's a reasonably strong crosswind, you need to roll a lot of into-wind aileron as you kick off the drift. With a Bonanza, it's easy to get this right, because you can tell when it's about to quit flying - timing is everything with this method.

 

 

[JUSTNUZZA]

1.9 hours into mine and I think I like it. This lesson ground handling and three pointers. Next lesson wheelers.

 

 

[SDQDI]

What's not to like about wheels like those:thumb up:

 

 

[kaz3g]

My Auster is 9 knots max dem xw and I've read some authorities that put the Tiger at less.

 

I haven't ground looped as yet but I thought it was going to happen at Alice Springs a few weeks ago. Wind on the ATIS was varying between 080 and 140, gusting between 12 and 19 knots. Active RWY was 12.

 

I asked if the grass was available and explained. She told me to standby then came back with a negative. She also advised that the current cross wind was 14 knots!

 

I told her it could be embarrassing. She told me to orbit while she got an RPT jet away.

 

When it was my turn I lined up at a 30 degree angle across 12 planning on a very short field arrival as much into wind as possible. Then Lady Luck smiled, the wind veered to almost straight down the runway and I plonked her down without even a small bounce.

 

I went up into the tower a few days later to say "hi" and asked what was wrong with the grass and was told they thought it was a bit too rough for a little aeroplane!!! It looked bloody good to me...

 

Kaz

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

If you ask whether the grass is available, this could be interpreted as asking CASA whether it is suitable - which will result in the response being to cover CASA's potential liability. If you say "Request use of grass", this may not trigger the backside-covering response. The reaction of a controller is not unusually "Go away and crash somewhere else". You could, I believe, request the use of a taxiway, if there is one suitably oriented for the wind, and there's no other traffic. Remember, you are in command of the aircraft, not the controller.

 

 

[Neil_S]

1.9 hours into mine and I think I like it. This lesson ground handling and three pointers. Next lesson wheelers. [ATTACH=full]31934[/ATTACH]

Hi Justnuzza,

 

I have just done my tailwheel endo in that plane! Great fun. Is Bruce your instructor?

 

Cheers,

 

Neil

 

 

[JUSTNUZZA]

Hi Justnuzza,I have just done my tailwheel endo in that plane! Great fun. Is Bruce your instructor?

 

Cheers,

 

Neil

Sure is.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

you can also land diagonally across the runway, did this a lot in a C150/150TD that had a real mean disposition.

 

 

[Rotorwork]

I also did my tail wheel endorsement on the C 150 (Texas Taildragger) It was fun to fly.

 

I then moved onto the Tiger Moth, with a Tail Skid, such a beautiful old aircraft,

 

I was always on edge when I flew the Tiger, worried that I would rap it on landing.

 

Just got the hang of it when an Instructor & Student crashed it (ended up on its back) & that was that.

 

I have had a few landings on Taxiways into the wind.

 

Fly Safe

 

R W:rotary:

 

 

[facthunter]

Once you get used to the Tiger with skid particularly, it should not bother you. I nearly always three pointed them and ideally just touch the skid first and keep the stick hard back in the early part of the landing roll. Today nearly everyone wheels them on. It's still the same plane, unless you have tailwheel and brakes and landing on Tarmac. Moving the wheels forward makes it touchier on directional control. Nev