RAAus To RPL Conversion

[rhysmcc]

Civil Aviation Act: Part 1

Australian aircraft means:

 

(a) aircraft registered in Australia;

 

(it USED to say "on the Civil Aircraft Register" - which is VH only)

 

==========================================

 

CASA Aircraft Register Procedures Manual

 

2. Registration of Australian Civil Aircraft

 

2.3.2 Registration of Ultralight Aircraft

 

Ultralight aircraft are identified by a series of unique numbers constituted by the prefixes “10-“, “19-“, “24-“, “25-“, “28-“, “32-“, “55-“, followed by 4 digits. Theses prefixes are assigned according to the classification defined in the CAOs, 95.10, 95.55, 95.32, 101.28 and 101.55.

 

Whilst ultralights do not use the ICAO issued Australian prefix “VH” and they are not

 

registered in accordance with the provisions of the CASRs, CARs or this Manual, ultralight aircraft are considered to be Australian aircraft.

 

===========================

I'm no lawyer, but if CASA interprets in it's manual that ultralight aircraft are considered Australian aircraft, and the act say "Australian aircraft" are "registered in Australia", then surely one could say aircraft registered with RA-AUS are deemed to be a "registered aircraft".

Basically the Act doesn't define registered aircraft to being on the CASA Civil register (i.e. VH) therefore any aircraft registered to a body with authority in Australia (i.e. RA-AUS, HGFA) must also be considered a registered aircraft, based on CASA's own interpretation.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Is it? Or does it have an exemption from being registered (and I mean the definition of register per CASA's regs)

RA-AUS aircraft do not have an exemption from being registered, as they must registered with the RA-AUS, they are exempt from having to comply with some regulations.

 

 

[DrZoos]

The biggest problem i see is not the Regulations is the form for the flight review only has space for a VH- ____ rego to be entered ont he form.... ..CASA has not been able to say why it cant be done in an RAA despite several phone calls..

 

They continually state it cannot be done but when pressed they have absolutely no idea why???

 

As far as i can see...its a recognized type class aircraft...under part 61

 

 

[DrZoos]

Im going to wait this out while some other sucker fights with or beats CASA

 

 

[Camel]

A PPL can fly an Australian registered aircraft outside Australia. Can an RAA registered plane be flown outside Australia ?

 

Also a foreign registered aircraft can be flown in Australia with that foreign licence but can not be flown with an Australian licence even if endorsed on type ! So why would the RAA aircraft be acceptable for RPL training ?

 

As Nickduncs84 said, just do the PPL, sounds the best way to me, then you have the lot not the equivilant to a GFPT.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

This gets better every day.

 

 

[facthunter]

If in some circumstances, you are able to understand what we have published, let us know. We will take action to rectify the situation. Be assured nothing will stop us endeavouring to give you the service you have come to expect from us, over time.

 

SGD... Your friends at CASA... Nev

 

 

[king_daniels]

and if you have a Victorian car licence with a car registered in Victoria you're not allowed to drive a NSW registered car, now where did I read that, someone said it was in the regulations somewhere, so if someone said it must be right. Don't you think it's time to move on.

 

 

[Drummer Dave]

I am quite interested in the RPL, Has anyone actually started the conversion process yet?

Hi.

Yes I sent in my RPL papers (4 wks ago) and received my CASA RPL in the mail today. I have studied this quite a bit over the past Cpl of years !!

 

Im NOT AN EXPERT, but may be able to answer a question or two .

 

 

[dsam]

I presume you needed to do the airborne flight test(s) in a VH registered aircraft?

 

 

[rhysmcc]

It's interesting to see a motion to the board was made about RAA not supporting the RPL, good to see it didn't get up but it makes me wonder if the Ops Manual will change in regards to needing a PPL or higher to fly RAA aircraft in controlled airspace.

 

 

[dsam]

FYI, I recently sent an email to RA-Aus asking: "Does the new Draft Ops Manual include provision(s) for Controlled Airspace / Controlled Aerodrome endorsements in RA-Aus aircraft that meet the appropriate capabilities & criteria? If not, that should be a priority, in my opinion."

 

Their response: "Controlled Airspace will not be in the new Operations Manual. CTA has not been approved by CASA for RA-Aus pilots and until it is approved it has been taken out. It was placed in the current issue (6) in anticipation of approval which did not eventuate. RA-Aus is still working on gaining this approval."

 

I wonder how long....?

 

 

[Drummer Dave]

I presume you needed to do the airborne flight test(s) in a VH registered aircraft?

Yes I did it in a 172RG. I had a GA student License years ago and then got out of flying.

I started back with RA and then updated my latest GA Endorsements in the Cessna

 

 

[dsam]

It's interesting to see a motion to the board was made about RAA not supporting the RPL, good to see it didn't get up but it makes me wonder if the Ops Manual will change in regards to needing a PPL or higher to fly RAA aircraft in controlled airspace.

One can only hope that at the next RA-Aus board meeting (Oct 19th) they agree that the new Ops Manual should retain provision for endorsements that include Controlled Airspace and Controlled Aerodrome for suitably equipped RA-Aus aircraft, otherwise we'll forever be prevented by CASA and their other regulations (as described in earlier postings in this forum thread). I may have no option other than PPL for CTA access unless the RA-Aus board makes this a higher priority.

 

 

[01rmb]

Because RA-Aus has never been granted controlled airspace access, I am looking to gain my RPL so that I can take advantage of the controlled airspace and controlled aerodrome endorsements to give me unrestricted access to Archerfield where I gained my pilot certificate. I started the process of working with a local GA flight school to gain the RPL and they are effectively requiring probably 10-15 hours of extra flight time before signing off the necessary flight review and endorsements.

 

To get the ball rolling, I submitted the relevant RPL license paperwork to CASA as they state that they recognise the RPL as equivalent to the pilot certificate but knowing I would still need the flight review and the controlled airspace and controlled aerodrome endorsements added later before I could take advantage of it. I was hoping/expecting they would recognise the radio and navigation endorsements from RA-Aus since I have the equivalent RA-Aus endorsements and the necessary flight times. It took them over a month but I finally received the RPL license back today. They provided no radio or cross country endorsement not recognising the RA-Aus endorsements. They even went to the trouble of using red ink to highlight the fact I can't use an aircraft radio.

 

So it seems that there is equivalent and then there's CASA equivalent. It makes no sense that the most basic elements of radio and navigation are not recognised whilst the flying license/certificate is. Ironically, I currently can use the aircraft radio and fly my Jab anywhere in Australia (outside controlled airspace) but even if I did a RPL flight review I can't do exactly the same in a VH registered aircraft without doing these endorsements separately wearing a GA hat. So feasibly, with the RPL license, RPL flight review and RPL controlled airspace/aerodrome endorsements giving me access to controlled airspace and aerodromes but with no radio or cross country endorsement, I could still take off in my appropriately equipped RA-Aus aircraft from a controlled aerodrome transit class C airspace, and then fly across the country all whilst talking on the radio using my RA-Aus pilot license with it's radio and cross country endorsements. The lack of logic makes my head hurt...

 

The sooner RA and GA accept common standards and appropriate equivalent recognition the better off recreational aviation will be.

 

 

[Drummer Dave]

Because RA-Aus has never been granted controlled airspace access, I am looking to gain my RPL so that I can take advantage of the controlled airspace and controlled aerodrome endorsements to give me unrestricted access to Archerfield where I gained my pilot certificate. I started the process of working with a local GA flight school to gain the RPL and they are effectively requiring probably 10-15 hours of extra flight time before signing off the necessary flight review and endorsements.To get the ball rolling, I submitted the relevant RPL license paperwork to CASA as they state that they recognise the RPL as equivalent to the pilot certificate but knowing I would still need the flight review and the controlled airspace and controlled aerodrome endorsements added later before I could take advantage of it. I was hoping/expecting they would recognise the radio and navigation endorsements from RA-Aus since I have the equivalent RA-Aus endorsements and the necessary flight times. It took them over a month but I finally received the RPL license back today. They provided no radio or cross country endorsement not recognising the RA-Aus endorsements. They even went to the trouble of using red ink to highlight the fact I can't use an aircraft radio.

 

So it seems that there is equivalent and then there's CASA equivalent. It makes no sense that the most basic elements of radio and navigation are not recognised whilst the flying license/certificate is. Ironically, I currently can use the aircraft radio and fly my Jab anywhere in Australia (outside controlled airspace) but even if I did a RPL flight review I can't do exactly the same in a VH registered aircraft without doing these endorsements separately wearing a GA hat. So feasibly, with the RPL license, RPL flight review and RPL controlled airspace/aerodrome endorsements giving me access to controlled airspace and aerodromes but with no radio or cross country endorsement, I could still take off in my appropriately equipped RA-Aus aircraft from a controlled aerodrome transit class C airspace, and then fly across the country all whilst talking on the radio using my RA-Aus pilot license with it's radio and cross country endorsements. The lack of logic makes my head hurt...

 

The sooner RA and GA accept common standards and appropriate equivalent recognition the better off recreational aviation will be.

Hi 01rmb

I guess you have done your GA Flight review also.

 

You may find that when you get the boxes ticked for Controlled Aerodrome and Controlled Airspace, it may activate the Radio Endorsement.

 

I know that it should transfer from RAA, but maybe its a different requirement. I did my radio licence back when I started flying in 1998 and my GFPT.

 

My radio was already on my CASA Licence, so I didn't have to get it transferred from RA Certificate.

 

Just keep doing your CTA etc and get those boxes ticked.

 

Good Luck !!

 

 

[djpacro]

GFPT holder operating at a Class D aerodrome had similar issues with transition to an RPL. Needed to get an English language test then radio and controlled aerodrome endorsements.

 

 

[Drummer Dave]

GFPT holder operating at a Class D aerodrome had similar issues with transition to an RPL. Needed to get an English language test then radio and controlled aerodrome endorsements.

Yes I did the English Language Test also. I forgot about that one. It triggers the radio endorsement also.

 

 

[01rmb]

I am still working through the system with GA to do the theory exams again as well as the additional instructor flight times so that they will sign off the flight review so haven't done it yet. I can understand the need of the GA schools to be sure that somebody is capable before signing off a flight review but I think they are going a little too far to force people to redo some of the basic things like the theory exams when CASA at least recognises the RPL as an equivalent of the pilot certificate.

 

What is really annoying is the stupidity of the radio endorsement not being recognised and to a lesser extent the navigation endorsement. Surely if I have met the RA-Aus radio requirements for speaking on a radio (and in my case at a class D controlled aerodrome) that I would not have to prove I can speak English and CASA should accept I can communicate on a radio and recognise the radio endorsement.

 

English language test - It would be funny but it is absolutely true...

 

Instructor - "How can I help you?"

 

Student - " I need to do the CASA English test"

 

Instructor - "Pass - That will be $50 please"

 

With the navigation endorsement, I met all the RA-Aus navigation theory and practical requirements and have even managed to get from Archerfield to Longreach and return via several stopovers so surely navigating a Cessna is no different to navigating a Jabiru. I understand there may be some limited instrument requirement (which I think is only in the PPL anyway) but that should be it.

 

 

[Drummer Dave]

You can only do your Theory Exam once. Once you pass,.. that's it.

 

Maybe you meant that you have done RA Theory and are doing a GA Theory exam

 

You will probably not pass a PPL with RA Aus theory, as there was a big push on finding rules and regs out of AIP and Ops etc.

 

I remember a question on Daylight and Darkness charts for someplace interstate and trying to be as fast as I could in plotting Co-ordinates on the test and then going to the UTC time etc etc. Now its all on your GPS info.

 

The PPL theory exams are more in depth than RA and the theory exam was a 3hr open book exam when I did mine.

 

A lot on Weight and Balance in aircraft that I would never fly, but I think the GA exams are presuming you are going through to CPL.

 

Your flight school should follow up with CASA regards to endorsements not transferred and why.

 

Your PPL flight test will be maybe a 3hr flight with Engine failures, Instrument failure, and at least 1 diversion and landing I think at 2 outlying strips apart from your departure??

 

and yes you would think that if you are born and educated in Australia, that we can actually understand and speak a little bit of English. Its a test more on comprehending the requirements and directives and other foreign accented pilots, in a cockpit environment. Interesting, but I thought it was a waste of my time and money personally.

 

I hope I am sheading a bit of light on this?? Just my experiences really.

 

 

[JUSTNUZZA]

Can I apply for an RPL with an RAA certificate, do an aerobatic rating then hire an aero certified aircraft for personal use ?

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Short answer, yes you can. You will have to do a flight review in a GA aircraft as part of the process, but that could be part of the aerobatic endorsement. Also be prepared for a long wait for CASA to process all the paperwork.

 

 

[JUSTNUZZA]

Short answer, yes you can. You will have to do a flight review in a GA aircraft as part of the process, but that could be part of the aerobatic endorsement. Also be prepared for a long wait for CASA to process all the paperwork.

So I could still continue to use my RAA certificate for my own aircraft then use the RPL for aerobatics in a certified aircraft ?

 

 

[nickduncs84]

So I could still continue to use my RAA certificate for my own aircraft then use the RPL for aerobatics in a certified aircraft ?

yes. but you need a class 2 medical as well.....i think...

 

 

[djpacro]

Flight review is not part of an aerobatic endorsement.