What age is a good time to stop flying

[Bruce Tuncks]

The brain isn't fully developed until the age of 25, according to the latest research done with brain scans. The last part of the brain to develop is the bit which processes risk.

 

Well the insurance companies knew this years ago, and they charge under 25's more to this day.

 

The army has always known it too. I once asked why they like 20 year-olds, and I was told that because 20 year-olds thought themselves to be invulnerable, they would obey orders without question.

 

But what age is safe against a moment of testosterone-fuelled recklessness? I reckon 70 would be a good guess, as there are examples of highly qualified pilots in their 50's having crashes because of this, and there is no test to determine if somebody is a possible candidate... unless maybe if all of your testosterone is removed. That wouldn't be a popular CASA safety directive huh.

 

 

[rgmwa]

I didn't realise you were so ancient, Nev.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Nev, you're a comfort. My kids were allowed to use the car (on our 5-acre block, west of Sydney) to take the rubbish to the incinerator, which was a couple of hundred yards from the house - only in first gear - as soon as they could fully depress the pedals. They could do 3 - point turns with a trailer, by the time they were fourteen. I put both of then through to solo in gliders before they were allowed to take the car on the road, so they got the feel of being responsible for their own lives, in a disciplined environment; and I taught them to analyse what the driver in the car is front was thinking, by the way he drove - and to generally drive "ahead" of the vehicle. We moved to QLD when the younger one was seventeen; purchased a 1 1/2 ton Nissan light truck & built a pantechnicon on it, and it took 28 round trips to move our stuff to QLD; they each did a couple of trips as co-driver with either me or my wife, then we took it in turns. They were both very competent, but I didn't know about that risk processing thing Vs age, of course. They didn't scratch the truck; and you certainly had to drive well ahead of it in places like Moonbi and Murrurrundi Gap. It worked for the elder boy, but not for the younger; he had a very serious accident at 18 and later wrote off several vehicles through going to sleep at the wheel - didn't seem able to know when to stop.

 

Nowadays, we're both in our '70s; my wife owns the Blanik, and is the maintenance controller. She has about 60 hours in gliders and a restricted PPL; she's currently at Keepit doing a refresher course, because it's been a while since she did any flying; and I'm the GFA inspector. The Blanik is full dual control, with dual instrument panels, including the engine instruments and control of the VHF COM, and we will alternate as to who is in which seat, just as we do in cross-country car trips. The one in back navigates with paper, and manages the refreshments; the one in front uses the ipad. So we'll be flying as long as we're physically fit.

 

 

[dsam]

A CASA directive to remove testosterone? That would be nuts! :-)

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

The medical term is "Orchidectomy", I believe . . .

 

 

[Nobody]

I don't want this to turn into an argument between generations about which is better.

 

I just want people to understand that there will come a time for everyone when it is necessary to consider giving up flying. It will come at different ages for each of us depending on our health and past aviation skill but at some point it will come. As we age the risks of flying increase. We will all need to make a decision one day that the risk of flying is greater than the enjoyment that we get from it. It won't be an easy decision but like turning back before going into IMC is one that should be made correctly.

 

I used the car data because as far as I know there is no equivalent study for aviation. Unfortunately there is limited recent, national data in the public domain for cars but there are a few state by state studies. Here is a graph extracted from this link which shows the situation from South Australia from 1994 to 1998.

 

 

There have been reductions in the crash rate for younger drivers due to introduction of things like the 3 year P plate rule in NSW and the limits on passengers late at night and so the more recent data has a lower peak on the left. What this shows is that there is a relatively flat plateau through the middle years of life with higher risk at the beginning and the end.

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Yes, well, there's no equivalent to a CASA class 2 medical for car drivers, is there? And the data for 70 year old drivers in 1996 would have to include a considerable percentage of people who learned to drive late in their lives; so one would need to see similar data for the driving population over several decades to eliminate that aspect.

 

When I came back to Australia in 1987, after driving in Europe - mainly Paris - for three months, and started driving in Toowoomba, there were still people who literally would stop in the middle of an intersection, wondering why they were there. It was a truly vast contrast to Paris; (although you would find English tourists doing that, having just driven off the ferry at Calais), however that part of the population has by now moved on, and you no longer find dodderers causing chaos in Toowoomba. So there is more to it than just plain age. The data need to take into account the population demograph, not merely age. I suspect the rise at the right-hand end of the graph may move to the right, in later samples. It seems to, from what I've observed as a driver.

 

It's also a question of maintaining one's electrolyte level and blood sugar level. I'd not tackle a five-hour cross-country flight nowadays.

 

 

[AVOCET]

Me too, I learnt to drive a Willies jeep on our farm when I was about 9 or 10.

My son Nic had a few friends up from adelaide , they had a

Couple of paddock boms that they leave here on the property .

 

This year theres been long grass growing on the airstrip , so i let them go and try to " cut the grass " ,

 

Well they had a ball doing donuts and power slides ,

 

Didnt do any damage to the strip , did the job of keeping the grass down though !

 

Better get it out of your system on the paddock than public roads

 

I learnt to drive like this as well .

 

Mike

 

 

[dazza 38]

My son Nic had a few friends up from adelaide , they had aCouple of paddock boms that they leave here on the property .

This year theres been long grass growing on the airstrip , so i let them go and try to " cut the grass " ,

 

Well they had a ball doing donuts and power slides ,

 

Didnt do any damage to the strip , did the job of keeping the grass down though !

 

Better get it out of your system on the paddock than public roads

 

I learnt to drive like this as well .

 

Mike

We had a series 3 Land Rover as well. Dad had to take the spare wheel off the bonnet as it blocked my view.

 

 

[kaz3g]

I reckon you need to start thinking hard at about age 75. I don't have aviation statistics but on the road the data is clear. Per kM travelled males aged 75+ have higher crash rates and serious injury rates than the 15 to 19 age

AND...?

 

We need to think about it, but we need to think about it logically.

 

Is it the age or is it how well the individual is able to perform and their preparedness to do it responsibly within the limitations of their ability?

 

I really don't think you can equitably apply a blanket age restriction on young or old. My eldest son was driving on the station at 10 years of age and has now reached 45 years of age accident free. I started at 14 years and am now 70 with one accident requiring a tow (I was 23 and the other car came through a red light) plus a couple of scrapes with nothing for 30 years.

 

My long time friend and former CFI, Dick Gower, has a few more years than me and has just retired from instructing (but is still an ATO). Orb down at Barwon Heads is even older and still going strong, I believe.

 

Age shouldn't be a life sentence!

 

Kaz

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Age is only a guide. Capability is the test at any age.

 

My great wish is that I am wise enough to recognise when it is time to give it away.

 

Like others, I know a 79 yo who should not be flying and an 81 yo who is building another aircraft and flies well.

 

I stopped riding motorcycles when I was about 25 as I wanted to make 30. I started again at 47 and kept going until a couple of years ago mainly because I was spending all my spare time on aviation and the bike was going to waste. I will not go back to riding (even a push bike) as it is a risk I do not need to take any more. Flying is for me much safer and more rewarding.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yep, capability is the real test. I've read that if you kept the lowest 10% IQ people off the road then you would drop the accident rate by 90%.

 

This has been my observation too. The person I know who has had the most road accidents just runs out of mental processing capacity at critical times. He is in his 20's.

 

Road driving tests should be done with simulators so that an emergency can be set up.

 

 

[poteroo]

It's also a question of maintaining one's electrolyte level and blood sugar level. I'd not tackle a five-hour cross-country flight nowadays

Yes, I'd suspect that dehydration induced dis-orientation plays a role in safety for elderly pilots. It is understandable when one considers decreased bladder storage integrity in the elderly. It's damned if you do - and damned if you don't. You need to keep fluid intake going - but you don't have long range tanks any more. If the flight is low level, in the usual Aussie turbulence - then the pilot is really working on just keeping level. It burns both energy and water, and you have to replace them. Take a wide neck bottle, plus plenty of water, and a lunch box of good sangers, fruit, bikkies etc. You can cope with declining strength and endurance by playing smarter. Be prepared! happy days,

 

 

[RickH]

Good friend of mine is eighty two, flies almost every day. got his license when he was in his late sixties. I have flown with him on several occasions and would do so at any time.

 

RickH

 

 

[Guest jasonlee]

flying has no age limit, you have to fly until or unless you tired off or health don't allow you to control and handle aircraft.

 

 

[Yenn]

An orchidectomy. Is that is what stops de flowering?

 

Re Orb at Barwon Heads, do you mean Aub Coote? I don't know how old he is but when he was CFI at Grovedals and I was a student, I thought he was a few years older than me and I am 78. He was / is a great pilot and instilled a good safety consciousness into students.

 

 

[kaz3g]

An orchidectomy. Is that is what stops de flowering?Re Orb at Barwon Heads, do you mean Aub Coote? I don't know how old he is but when he was CFI at Grovedals and I was a student, I thought he was a few years older than me and I am 78. He was / is a great pilot and instilled a good safety consciousness into students.

Orb...have you seen his head lately?

 

Great guy and very professional.

 

Kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

An orchidectomy. Is that is what stops de flowering?Re Orb at Barwon Heads, do you mean Aub Coote? I don't know how old he is but when he was CFI at Grovedals and I was a student, I thought he was a few years older than me and I am 78. He was / is a great pilot and instilled a good safety consciousness into students.

Orb...have you seen his head lately?

 

Great guy and very professional.

 

Kaz