RAAus AGM This Saturday at YLED Lethbridge Victoria

[Keith Page]

01rmb.

 

I like your points..You are correct this forum is a good place to get info..

 

One needs to do some sorting to be able to take the good stuff away, never can have too much info..

 

I know there is some complete trash here at times however some of it is useful as some times we start a different though process because of the trash.

 

Store it as just down the track the penny will drop and all will be clear as crystle.

 

It is a members organization and without member there is no organisation.

 

regards

 

KP.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The single best thing the RAA could do is get out of the empire building business and just stick to the basics of issuing certificates and registrations.

 

Everything the board tries to manage ends up falling into a bottomless financial hole where the members end up picking up the tab.

 

It's the main reason so many people don't like the RAA

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

FT

 

What specifically do you feel we should not be doing? Can you give examples and why in each case?

 

Andy

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Everything the board tries to manage ends up falling into a bottomless financial hole where the members end up picking up the tab.

For example?

 

Purchasing the office in Fyshwick that doubled in value from when it was purchased?

 

Changing magazine editor that saved heaps?

 

Putting away a financial reserve of $1.5 million?

 

Running Natfly at a profit?

 

 

[facthunter]

It's still got the largest number of members by far in it's field. It hasn't been an easy environment to be in ..If they listened to you ft they would slash their wrists. and give up. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Don, all of the above are part of that empire.

 

The biggest empire is the paper shuffling staff in Canberra, failure to invest in online systems is pushing up costs. Why do we have so many staff?

 

The magazine is another great white whale, supposed to be a promotion tool but it's costing a packet. Is it actually promoting the sport? How many people even read it? I am guessing not as many as the board thinks. Judging by the lack of response to elections.

 

Natfly on paper its not costing money but its keeping a lot of ppl busy. Its only attended by a fraction of RAA members, it doesn't get any media attention.

 

In both cases why doesn't the RAA find out

 

• what members actually want instead of sticking with the same old formulas.
   
   
  
• better ways to promote the sport
   
   
  
• why members are so disengaged with the RAA
   
   
  

 

 

Consider this, had the money the RAA was sitting in the bank 5 years ago gone into the registration system, think of the expense that would have been avoided.

 

Or if that money had gone into promoting the sport to new markets, how much bigger the sport would be now.

 

 

[Russ]

At what point do folks look forward, rather than dragging up the past. Yes there were "issues", but now 2014, some fresh air is apparent. Let's be part of the solution here, feedback is now beginning, and that alone was a major grype.

 

Hell last yr I got the runaround with my rego, this yr......easy as. I'm quietly confident we are going somewhere good.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Well I had what I think to be the good fortune of bumping into the President and the CEO a few weeks ago at Caboolture. I felt it was a very productive and informative meeting on both sides. They were both very forthcoming with their vision for the future and asked me as a newcomer to RA Aus, some very pertinent questions. One of those was my opinion on the Magazine. I for one am a strong supporter of paper magazines, and shall remain so and made my opinion known. I have several reasons for that and they listened as I put forward those reasons. They also asked about my training and what I hope to gain from being a member.

 

I will admit to putting forward a suggestion about the advertising in both the Mag and on the Website and I was very pleased to see those suggestions put into place almost immediately. Do I as a newbie think we are in good hands. Yes I do. The people that I have met including those that I have virtually met through this forum leave me with no doubt that they are enthusiastic, they are interested in the future and the are willing to listen. Do I think they will do everything that all the members want, not a hope but I am sure that what they do do will be in the best interests of the whole.

 

Just my 2 bobs worth.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The key issue for me is - who does the RA-Aus CEO work for? If not for the members then who? If the CEO is not engaging and listening to the people he works for then how does he know if he is doing the right thing? If he works for the board, then how do they engage with the members?If the CEO is making decisions then maybe he would be better served to know what the people in the organisation he is meant to be representing actually want.

 

The new email circulars are a great way to send information out and the surveys are an attempt to gather information but it is only on a specific topic and potentially has a biased agenda. A forum like this and even better one on the RA AUS web site would provide a critical source of member's issues, desires and general sentiment.

 

Times have changed and RA-Aus needs to move on. Forums and social media are way more accurate mechanisms to engage with the people who each have an opinion on what matters to them rather than have a board representative that was voted in by only a few members and may not have any contact with anyone outside his personal circle of friends. Surely this forum or one specifically set up for the purpose would get a far better representation than the current board concept.

01rmb....The CEO takes direction from the board via the excutive. The board remember are members elected by the membership, as are the excutive.......so in a nutshell the CEO takes direction from members.........Maj.......

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Don, all of the above are part of that empire.The biggest empire is the paper shuffling staff in Canberra, failure to invest in online systems is pushing up costs. Why do we have so many staff?

 

The magazine is another great white whale, supposed to be a promotion tool but it's costing a packet. Is it actually promoting the sport? How many people even read it? I am guessing not as many as the board thinks. Judging by the lack of response to elections.

 

Natfly on paper its not costing money but its keeping a lot of ppl busy. Its only attended by a fraction of RAA members, it doesn't get any media attention.

 

In both cases why doesn't the RAA find out

 

• what members actually want instead of sticking with the same old formulas.
   
   
  
• better ways to promote the sport
   
   
  
• why members are so disengaged with the RAA
   
   
  

 

 

Consider this, had the money the RAA was sitting in the bank 5 years ago gone into the registration system, think of the expense that would have been avoided.

 

Or if that money had gone into promoting the sport to new markets, how much bigger the sport would be now.

One of the prime responsibilities of the board is to ensure the organization stays on a secure footing and solvent, call it empire- building if you like FT...but once again your way off the mark by a country mile.......

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I received my October Mag 2 days ago. The sooner we can get it online and eliminate the cost of printing and mailing it out each month the better, members might even engage more when they aren't given "reports" that are 6-8 weeks old. I believe this issue was discussed at the Board meeting and look forward to seeing the results, in particular the cost/benefit of the different options.

 

Out of interest, how many magazines are sold each month through subscription or newsagents (ie not sent to members).

 

From my exposure dealing with both my local board member and the president things seem to be going in the right direction, hopefully the recent board meeting will back this up with action.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Paper copy for me.. Because there is always someone wanting to have a look.

 

The most important point for me the people asking the cost of the sports planes and I give them the mag and get them look at members market.

 

The other big plus when one goes somewhere the mag is packed for self and all the sticky beaks wandering what we are about.

 

Leave the mag for me.

 

Regards

 

KP.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Question for you Maj..

 

This empire building which F_T is on about.

 

When an organisation is expanding that is empire building is not it? (and good)

 

If one does not expand then one only stagnates and disinergrates, is this true?

 

Regards

 

KP.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

According to the 13-14 Budget (and I'm not 100% if these are correct figures or what was forecast), Mag sales amount to $16,828 for the year, at $7.70 per copy (quoted on Titletracker) that amounts to just under 200 copies a month. I'm guessing it's actually alot less as one month (May 14) seems to have had 7 times the amount of sales as the other 10 months.

 

I don't think spending $358,000 to sell less then 200 copies to non members can claim it's a good way of promoting our sport. The real question to way up is how much would an online version cost us (ie how much will we save) and the cost of middle ground, members get an online version with the option to subscribe to a print version. Ideally a share of the savings would be past on to members in the way of a reduction of fees, so that those who choose to subscribe are not paying a huge lot more.

 

Does anyone know if the $358,000 includes the postage or is that just the printing only? Also there is no mention (that i can find) of how much is raised in advertising in the magazine, or does that all go to the publisher?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Question for you Maj..This empire building which F_T is on about.

When an organisation is expanding that is empire building is not it? (and good)

 

If one does not expand then one only stagnates and disinergrates, is this true?

 

Regards

 

KP.

Yes Keith RAAus is growing and the organization has to adapt and grow also to better serve its members. As far as 'empire building' goes.....most empires are run by kings whereas we are governed by a board made up of elected members, from the ranks of our members so I don't believe the term fits here. It has been suggested that CASAs' SASAO office has been 'empire building' within CASA with some nine employees now in that department lead by ex-RAAus president Lee Ungerman.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

According to the 13-14 Budget (and I'm not 100% if these are correct figures or what was forecast), Mag sales amount to $16,828 for the year, at $7.70 per copy (quoted on Titletracker) that amounts to just under 200 copies a month. I'm guessing it's actually alot less as one month (May 14) seems to have had 7 times the amount of sales as the other 10 months.I don't think spending $358,000 to sell less then 200 copies to non members can claim it's a good way of promoting our sport. The real question to way up is how much would an online version cost us (ie how much will we save) and the cost of middle ground, members get an online version with the option to subscribe to a print version. Ideally a share of the savings would be past on to members in the way of a reduction of fees, so that those who choose to subscribe are not paying a huge lot more.

 

Does anyone know if the $358,000 includes the postage or is that just the printing only? Also there is no mention (that i can find) of how much is raised in advertising in the magazine, or does that all go to the publisher?

All good questions there Rhymscc....the magazine situation is being looked at closely currently and important decisions were made in that area at the board meeting just passed. The magazine is one of our largest expenditures and is not cost neutral. Keep an eye out for the latest board minutes and mention of the magazine situation in the CEOs next Email to members. Changes are coming in that area which will save us money, and may even turn the production of the magazine into a profit making area.

 

 

[coljones]

A portion of the fee pays for the mag - if we move to another format than paper (I happen to like paper, it gives me the opportunity to grab a cup of tea, a bowl of chicken laksa and head out to the gazebo to spend an hour having a good read) then I would expect a reduction (or an increase) in the fee reflecting my portion of the cost/profit from having a paper only mag.

 

If the organisation is running at a loss then I suggest that it turns its mind to the slush fund and finance the shortfall out of that if it is of a temporary or short term in nature other wise the organisation should argue for a fee increase rather than hacking off a member benefit (which is actually being paid for by the members and is not a free gift).

 

I have held doubts about the business sense of the RAA Board and executive in their relentless drive to turn a profit and increase the size of the slush fund - a fund which has no stated purpose - except a rainy day. If some of those profits in the past had indeed been spent properly in the past rather than foolishly banked then we would have probably not got ourselves in the sort of trouble we found our selves *** there was chronic underinvestment in both specialist staff and systems all, it seems, in an attempt to build up the slush fund. the thing that pisses me off is that a parade of treasurers were proud of their nickel and diming. Jim, at least seems to understand the need to spend some money to get assets into the organisation to deliver value to the members.

 

Now where was I, ah yes, killing off the magazine won't fix the problem because I will want my mag subscription refunded. If RAA wants more money they will have to justify it dollar by dollar (and no girly-man @##%^^&%^^%$ like we get from Matias Cormann)

 

*** Note - and with the boards, executives and CEOs we had in the past you would be hesitant to give them the time of day let alone cost of membership. The rainy days did arrive, brought on largely by past incapacities of RAA leadership. I am told that the board has come together and is positive and working as a team. Best of luck (and god speed)

 

 

[rhysmcc]

All good questions there Rhymscc....the magazine situation is being looked at closely currently and important decisions were made in that area at the board meeting just passed. The magazine is one of our largest expenditures and is not cost neutral. Keep an eye out for the latest board minutes and mention of the magazine situation in the CEOs next Email to members. Changes are coming in that area which will save us money, and may even turn the production of the magazine into a profit making area.

That's good to hear and thought as much anyway. Our largest expenditure appears to be staff, almost half in fact. Are we looking at ways to reducing the amount of positions either by utilizing "online systems" or the combining of some positions? At the current count (from the RA-AUS website) we have CEO, 4 Managers, 3 Assistant/Project officers, Ops Administrator and 8 Clerical/Executive Assistants. What does the Board and CEO think about our current staffing levels?

 

A portion of the fee pays for the mag - if we move to another format than paper (I happen to like paper, it gives me the opportunity to grab a cup of tea, a bowl of chicken laksa and head out to the gazebo to spend an hour having a good read) then I would expect a reduction (or an increase) in the fee reflecting my portion of the cost/profit from having a paper only mag.

I would rather see the mag online and some of the savings passed on to members, then increase in membership fees to cover our now increased expenses. If I had to choose between online and same fee VS paper and increased fee, I'd still go with the first option.

 

 

[AVOCET]

In my experiance its not a members magazine

 

As members we have to pay full market rates if we want to advertise AVIATION endevers from ausi aviators having a go .

 

I for one carnt aford it , as if a flegling self funded puts thousands of $into advertising .

 

Yea , idid get a bit peaved a couple years ago when I brought in from england those jaby oil temp thermostats with great ideas of selling a few at a reasonable price & 270. From memory .

 

To advertise in the mag for one year ,again from memory would have put the price of the thermostat to about $ 400

 

Thats a real sevice to our members ,

 

And yes i told my board member ,

 

And yes also spoke to our editor ,

 

And yes ,i gave up on the idea to help members through our mag .that and other products that im in the process of developing

 

And yes i do like our mag , i just wish it was ours to use reasonably .

 

Mike

 

 

[rankamateur]

At what point do folks look forward, rather than dragging up the past. Yes there were "issues", but now 2014, some fresh air is apparent.

Ever been hunting or fishing with a group of blokes in the great outdoors and fresh air? Always one of them will fart and spoil it for all, but it only hangs around for a little while and everyone can get on with enjoying it again. Hang in there Russ!

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

In my experiance its not a members magazineAs members we have to pay full market rates if we want to advertise AVIATION endevers from ausi aviators having a go .

I for one carnt aford it , as if a flegling self funded puts thousands of $into advertising .

 

Yea , idid get a bit peaved a couple years ago when I brought in from england those jaby oil temp thermostats with great ideas of selling a few at a reasonable price & 270. From memory .

 

To advertise in the mag for one year ,again from memory would have put the price of the thermostat to about $ 400

 

Thats a real sevice to our members ,

 

And yes i told my board member ,

 

And yes also spoke to our editor ,

 

And yes ,i gave up on the idea to help members through our mag .that and other products that im in the process of developing

 

And yes i do like our mag , i just wish it was ours to use reasonably .

 

Mike

Heard loud and clear Mike................Maj....

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

A portion of the fee pays for the mag - if we move to another format than paper (I happen to like paper, it gives me the opportunity to grab a cup of tea, a bowl of chicken laksa and head out to the gazebo to spend an hour having a good read) then I would expect a reduction (or an increase) in the fee reflecting my portion of the cost/profit from having a paper only mag.If the organisation is running at a loss then I suggest that it turns its mind to the slush fund and finance the shortfall out of that if it is of a temporary or short term in nature other wise the organisation should argue for a fee increase rather than hacking off a member benefit (which is actually being paid for by the members and is not a free gift).

 

I have held doubts about the business sense of the RAA Board and executive in their relentless drive to turn a profit and increase the size of the slush fund - a fund which has no stated purpose - except a rainy day. If some of those profits in the past had indeed been spent properly in the past rather than foolishly banked then we would have probably not got ourselves in the sort of trouble we found our selves *** there was chronic underinvestment in both specialist staff and systems all, it seems, in an attempt to build up the slush fund. the thing that pisses me off is that a parade of treasurers were proud of their nickel and diming. Jim, at least seems to understand the need to spend some money to get assets into the organisation to deliver value to the members.

 

Now where was I, ah yes, killing off the magazine won't fix the problem because I will want my mag subscription refunded. If RAA wants more money they will have to justify it dollar by dollar (and no girly-man @##%^^&%^^%$ like we get from Matias Cormann)

 

*** Note - and with the boards, executives and CEOs we had in the past you would be hesitant to give them the time of day let alone cost of membership. The rainy days did arrive, brought on largely by past incapacities of RAA leadership. I am told that the board has come together and is positive and working as a team. Best of luck (and god speed)

Col, the 'slush' fund as you call is there to ensure our organization survives into the future. Any responsible organization would be expected to exercise fiscal responsibility on behalf of its membership and establish the long term security of having some money in the bank. Currently it is only about half of what really should be there. We have several Coroners reports to look foward to in the near future due to the high fatal accident rates in past years. Any judgement against the RAAus could very quickly lead to a civil law suit against us which has the potential to instantly deplete and 'slush' fund we may have. I can hear the roars of dissatisfaction now from the membership if that occurred and we could not fund our liabilities. Our insurance in this case is limite and only covers so much. The board would like to see the fund increase for additional security into the future which is why we are looking closely at areas including the magazine where we are loosing money. I too like a quiet place with my magazine and coffee and I will fight against the day when we don't have the magazine to do that with. Additionally we are doing work for the regulator (CASA) and not receiving fair compensation for our efforts,this is another area that needs to be rectified quickly.

 

 

[Russ]

CASA and burdening rec flying orgs more and more, then paying a pittance to those orgs, seems to be common place.

 

Did hear tho, that the meat bombing folks, get a bundle of cash....go figure

 

( unconfirmed comment )

 

Spoze all rec aviation could say to CASA........boys, it's all yours, might just take their breath away......might

 

Alternatively, ALL rec aero sports, combine into one body, then the accumulated numbers would have clout. ( fragmented groups are easy pickings )

 

Just a thought??

 

 

[turboplanner]

When I addressed the board at Lethbridge and asked some questions I made clear my status to all in attendance,(stated as Lapsed member) and clearly did not vote on any issue.. I clarified my position with the permanent staffer, re attendance, prior to taking a seat, next to the famous Ian Baker. Nev

Please tell me the members were validated and separated before any voting took place, and lessons were learnt from the fiasco of the EGM where there were members and non members together during the voting, invalidating the motions including the changes to the Constitution, which in turn invalidated any decisions or actions arising from the invalid clauses.

 

 

[facthunter]

I can't do that and under the circumstances would have been over kill. As far as I could see the resolutions passed were not opposed by anyone at the time of voting. The call for " against" each time produced none. No coercion, nothing sinister . Civilised like it should be...Nev.