RAAus AGM This Saturday at YLED Lethbridge Victoria

[Guest Maj Millard]

So you have an insurance policy with people who won't pay out (effectively) We generally get sued by our members How do you reconcile your recommendation with that situation?. It's CASA's job to indemnify anyhow. Nev

Even the best insurance policy will only carry so much coverage for you. A young quadriplegic in a wheelchair these days requiring assistance and care for the rest of their life could be never ending, and run into multiple millions..........over many many years.

 

 

[Captain]

My six-peneth is that about the only thing that the OBC gets a partial tick for is the accumulation of that reserve.

 

 

 

Imagine RAA's position over the set of c*ck-ups in the 2000 - 2013 period (and their flow-on more recently) if there had not been funds available to address those issues.

 

 

 

Although on the downside, I suspect that the existence of that reserve made everybody administratively fat, happy and slack.

 

 

 

In my experience, having money assists in quickly addressing problems and one example is that the organisation has the reserves to allow the existing Board to address the paper- files issue and implement a new computer based system. The paper filing system was woefully inadequate but the OBC and some of the dill EO's just kept on keeping on with it for a decade or two after they should have updated, but at least the existing Board had funds to allocate to that problem.

 

 

 

I'm sorry but I just don't understand how any member can argue against an organisation having a reasonable & over-adequate reserve. Money is good when you have it.

 

 

[Russ]

Am told, the meat bombers assn, self insure to ??, if it looks like it's going over that $$$, then they call in the big guns.

 

There incident record, last 2 yrs, would have to dwarf ours. " dangerous activity" would be front and centre of their promos ??

 

Side note....CASA set the rules, Raa operate within those, ......training is out sourced to businesses / private trainers etc, so if an incident occurs, how is Raa accountable. ( Raa dotting their I's and crossing the T's ) an incident is more often than not....pilot error, now if one argues that line, referencing skill, poor training, bad pilot action etc, how can Raa be sued.

 

You smash your car, you are quadraplegic, do you go and sue your driving school, car maker, who ever........claiming poor skills caused the accident, as they never taught you"defensive driving". Seeking persons to blame for your own stuff up , driving, flying, whatever......it's getting rediculous.

 

 

[facthunter]

Agree with all that Russ. The world is what it is. Litigation is a cost on everything. I thought the RAAus operated on accepting an extra risk to operate with restrictions and keep things within reach of ordinary mortals, cost wise. I know the recently retired CEO of CASA didn't agree with the concept of cheap flying (unless airlines do it for him). Wonder if things might get a bit better for us now. Nev

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Russ

 

We don't outsource training at all, rather we constantly regulate training facilities and check they are to our standard. Its true that other members (and that's IMHO an important distinction) deliver the hands on training but it is IAW our standards and requirements.

 

As for who do you sue.....that's easy you fire a legal shotgun blast at a bunch of potential tartgets and see who, if anyone you hit......Part of determining whose potentially in the direction of the blast comes down to the age old legal question will it be a pyrrhic victory or are there real $$ to claim in damages....lawers love the latter and abhor the former......for obvious and logical reasons

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Personally ( as a common member) I wouldn't mind at all if the RAaus was sitting on 4-5 Million . Would give the board a little more room to move and create a better scenero for us, and would also give the membership confidence that the organization that allows us to fly will still be there for us in five years. Right now our magazine is bleeding to the tune of 35-40 K a month which cannot go on, so we have to find a fix fast and go a long way toward eliminating the deficit for coming years.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I agree with Ross except I would add:-

 

"I wouldn't mind at all if the RAaus was sitting on 4-5 Million"

 

.......but only where that is because to meet one or more of our strategic aims we need 4-5million.

 

In any event we are arguing about the tail of the dog when we haven't yet got a strategic direction agreed......It would be a rare person that goes looking for a dog arguing it needs a tail that has the following characteristics, but I don't give a stuff about the rest of the dog.....

 

As Geoff said that we have a buffer is at this point in time, ignoring all that went before because we cant change that no matter how much we wish....a fantastic thing! life would be much more ugly without it.....

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

so....to follow on from the last post......in an ideal world nothing (except that there be no CASA like it is today) is impossible and we have a chance to set a view as to what we want RAAus to look like in 3, 5 and 10 years time. What would be on your must do list......I hope for most this will be a regurgitation of the RAAus Survey material, but if not, what ideal things do you want to see, and what things do you definitely not want to see...What's important?

 

I'll start off with my personal views...

 

1) I want to be able to use the remaining designed All up weight of my J230 and not be limited by a legislative limit that has no relationship to the former.

 

2) I want to be able to access, with the proper training, and no more or less the costs, that GA have, class D airports and airspace.

 

3) I don't want medical to be more onerous than they are already and hope that ideally I don't need more than I have at present to achieve 2)

 

4) I want to achieve 2) in 19 registered if there is mechanism to not go over built up areas from which escape is not possible in the event of EF.

 

5) I would like for single seat simple 95.10 aircraft to have their own dedicated license/certificate regime that is simpler to achieve and maintain if at all possible. I don't believe that the 95.10 boys are hard done by, but they feel they are and they are every bit as important to our organisation as any other aviator...

 

 

[frank marriott]

Andy

 

Is your J230 a 24 registered LSA? (In reference to CTA access)

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

AndyIs your J230 a 24 registered LSA? (In reference to CTA access)

Frank

No, hence my point 4). If such access is likely impossible then a lane of entry around Coffs and others where there is no safe alternate but the class D airspace would be acceptable to me

 

Andy

 

 

[Russ]

Ross....surely printing costs were factored into membership $$$, or part thereof.....

 

Surely we have approached other printers in more recent times to obtain current comparisons.

 

Revenues incoming ( Raa ) total, ballpark $1m ?? ......and we are going broke ??

 

( gyro folks, 300.......600 members, low fees, smart systems, MEAGRE govt funds, burdened with same casa edicts, and getting worse, yes more $$ would be nice, but they tick along quite nicely. Admittedly their costly mag is printed quarterly, maybe Raa go bi monthly printed, electronic monthly......)

 

I said before, Raa should have embraced rank and file members to self manage their accounts electronically, Raa access member accounts as needed, outdated/ wrong details is the members fault, and until that account is brought up to current status, it simply stalls.

 

This type system....electronic, would immediately reduce folks behind desks, saving Raa $$$$.......serious $$$$

 

Ok......so we have $1m plus stored away, great, but.....are we getting the absolute best return for that, there are some great options out there, and folks are keen to get funds.

 

( would love to see....warts and all...the last 5.....7 yrs unadulterated audits of Raa's financials )

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Audited financial report is on the members portal, I think you'll find some historical ones as well. I believe it is marked as draft....but was accepted at the AGM so will have a title change in coming days......

 

Members portal on raa.asn.au then click on financial reports

 

 

[Captain]

I hope that you RAA members appreciate how good it is to have Andy and Ross communicating in the way that they are.

 

A few years ago they would have been drawn and quartered for this.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[turboplanner]

Personally ( as a common member) I wouldn't mind at all if the RAaus was sitting on 4-5 Million . Would give the board a little more room to move and create a better scenero for us, and would also give the membership confidence that the organization that allows us to fly will still be there for us in five years. Right now our magazine is bleeding to the tune of 35-40 K a month which cannot go on, so we have to find a fix fast and go a long way toward eliminating the deficit for coming years.

I'm very pleased to see the true cost of the magazine out in the open, that's around $60.00 per member subscription, and while some cope better seeing things on paper at least everyone knows the penalty for not moving to digital as many organizations have.

 

That's a much better basis for members to understand some of the changes that have to be made to cover costs.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Audited financial report is on the members portal, I think you'll find some historical ones as well. I believe it is marked as draft....but was accepted at the AGM so will have a title change in coming days......Members portal on raa.asn.au then click on financial reports

Since it is readily available from the Department of Justice anyway, it would be a good idea to post annual reports in the open section, since there are non members such as Airport owners and Managers etc who would benefit from knowing they were dealing with a sound organization.

 

 

[Captain]

And to think that some are still calling for a reduction in the membership fee if the mag goes digital.

 

Geez Louise.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

And to think that some are still calling for a reduction in the membership fee if the mag goes digital.Geez Louise.

Don't believe that's going to happen......

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Well that can be done Geoff, I image it'll go something like this....... in going digital we owe you $30 (for example) but to maintain RAAus as a going concern while we change things to make them more efficient you owe us $30 (for example)....If you want paper then that will be an additional $60 (for example) per year because that is the per paper user costs born by those members and not all members.......

 

Andy

 

These are my personal views not RAAus board views

 

 

[Captain]

Don't believe that's going to happen......

I agree Madge. You need the Mag to go digital just to get the accounts back to straight and level.

 

 

[facthunter]

You will pay a lot more for golf club membership.

 

About 1/2 the newsagent copies are unsold. Adverts and perhaps being out there in the public realm and a medium to pass on information required are plusses. Perhaps some could go to school libraries?. The number could be reduced to half or less if other communication methods are utilised. Non flying members don't get much else for their money, and you might lose a few of them. I'm certain the Board are watching this. Nev

 

 

[Captain]

Well that can be done Geoff, I image it'll go something like this....... in going digital we owe you $30 (for example) but to maintain RAAus as a going concern while we change things to make them more efficient you owe us $30 (for example)....If you want paper then that will be an additional $60 (for example) per year because that is the per paper user costs born by those members and not all members.......Andy

 

These are my personal views not RAAus board views

And probably dearer if only a small % stay with the printed version.

 

 

[01rmb]

The size of the cash/asset reserves are irrelevant unless there is a strategy and business plan defining what the reserves should be. Too little and there is the risk of not being able to pay bills/liabilities, too much and the members are paying too much for the services they receive. If operational costs exceed operational revenues then the reserves are just being depleted and measures should be taken to address this. If reserves are used to reduce operational costs in future years then that could be a good investment in the future running of the business.

 

The talk of legal cases being the reason for the reserve needs to be addressed in the business case and adequately allowed for in the insurance coverage as well as the reserves rather than retain and build up reserves “just in case”.

 

A lawyer would be better qualified to comment but in my experience in another high risk recreational industry where legal cases are fairly common - the instructing and certifying bodies needs to demonstrate that the course curriculum and standards are appropriate, the instructor/examiner needs to demonstrate that they have followed the curriculum and standards (no more – no less) and the participants need to demonstrate that they acted within the privileges allowed in the standards. If all is met with no negligence as a reasonable person would, then there is no case. Having been intimately involved in a coronial case where this was tested, the civil case was closed without issue because each party was able to demonstrate they complied with the standards and test of what a reasonable person would do in the circumstances.

 

Insurance should be used to manage the liability risks and pay the legal costs required to demonstrate this in court. Holding a reserve just in case of legal action is self insurance and generally a doubtful practice unless there is a strong case for it and intimate knowledge of what may happen. If the board is not confident in the pilot certifying or aircraft licensing process/standards then it needs to address this rather than just squirrel money away just in case somebody were to take RA-Aus to court.

 

The business plan should address all of (and more):

 

· What should the reserves be $1m or $10m?

 

· How much insurance should be held?

 

· What are the incomes and expenses for the business and how do you make sure incomes are higher than expenses?

 

· How should RA-Aus invest the reserves in better systems, building, airfield or hanger?

 

Operationally, the RA-Aus administration team needs to take care of the systems, process and standards to deliver on the strategy and business plan whilst working within the income/expense constraints.

 

As I asked earlier – who does the CEO and board work for? It was a rhetorical question; I know the answer was the members. It is obvious this has not been the case for a number of years and there have been some genuine attempts recently at fixing this with new appointments but the fact that RA-Aus is a member association should never be lost on the CEO and individual.

 

 

[facthunter]

Unforseen events need a ready source of capital. If you can't function because no one will give you credit then you are out of action. Whether you borrow against an asset or have cash reserves invested SAFELY , there is still a cost whichever way you do it. Going for a high return is accompanied with a higher risk so WE should be conservative there. Naturally burrowing into your cash reserves is no way of operating in the long term. The organisation believes it should get more from CASA for quite a few good reasons. We had unusual circumstances for the last few years involving increased costs, but those circumstances should be a thing of the past . It's not unreasonable to expect to have a magazine or other benefits. We have nearly 10K members. If we pared everything to the bone and just balanced the books, it might appear we could do OK like that. We should push the CASA for the extra funding and indemnify our Board and staff before we finally decide where our final money figures sit. I would not be comfortable for the organisation before that happens. Nev

 

 

[AVOCET]

On the magazine topic , ide settle for a lower quality paper ,

 

After all , once read they are filed away ,generally never looked at again , or eventually recycled .

 

In an ever decreasing shelf space world . I know the " shop front " glossy front page look to attract the eye , but ive seen enthusiest mag's with gloss front page and lower quality pages .

 

Surely savings could be made ?

 

Mike

 

 

[Geoff13]

With the quantity of advertisers in the mag, I see no reason why it should not turn a profit. Maybe we need to look at cost vs income rather than just shelving it.

 

Cheers Geoff13