Micro light fire.

[Teckair]

I use a metal drum on wheels with a rotary hand pump, there is a filter and a fuel hose with a metal nozzle and an earth wire from the drum to the aircraft.

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

I use a metal drum on wheels with a rotary hand pump, there is a filter and a fuel hose with a metal nozzle and an earth wire from the drum to the aircraft.

I used to refuel my Auster - which I used to fly to & from work at Hawker de Havilland at Bankstown, in the '60s - from a metal drum (half a -44) in the boot of my car, with an all-metal hand pump, a metal-mesh filter, and the hose had a steel spring inside it, in contact with the fuel; plus I had an earthing wire from the set-up in the boot, to the aircraft. The only problem I had was that the pump and the spring inside the hose were not made from stainless, so they rusted, and of course so did the drum - and though the filter caught the rust particles from the pump, the ones from the hose made it into the aircraft fuel system (where they were caught by the gascolator). It's not difficult to get stainless steel mesh that will stop water; and this is a much safer option than using a chamois, and plastic funnels etc are simply asking for trouble.

Pick your hardware with care for these issues, and you can make a very satisfactory refuelling rig, for no great cost. But don't use galvanised steel; use stainless, or if you can weld it, aluminium for the non-wearing parts. A time-ex LPG tank from a car makes a good basis. However, it's probably illegal to do such things these days, except on your own property.

 

 

[facthunter]

I have a stainless LPG tank still in a car. It is easy to braise stainless using nickel bronze. It "tins" beautifully. Avgas seems to rust steel fairly well. I think they use Caustic in some part of the manufacture. process. Recall the damage done to a lot of aircraft fuel system components years back when they got it wrong.. Nev

 

 

[Bluey]

A static build up will only occur if the atmospheric conditions allow it. That is, humidity is low, generally below 50%. Plastic cannot be grounded. The fuel funnels when used in combination with a drum and spout is a problem. Don't forget the fuel itself will build up a charge as it swirls in the funnel during refueling. Don't assume it's always the plastic.

 

A good practice would be to spray water to the outside of your plastic drum before refueling. At least this way you'll elliminate one possible source. Alternatively, don't refill when the air is that dry. You're asking for trouble.

 

I had a fire about a year ago during NSW bushfires. I was lucky!

 

Bluey

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Drill a hole in the plastic tank/drum, weld some chain or stainless wire to a stainless bolt head and put it inside the tank drum etc and feed the threaded end through the hole fiber washer and nylock nut to seal it and use the bolt as earthing point. same for funnels.

 

 

[Bluey]

The safest way is to insert the nozzle into the tank and be sure that the nozzle is in contact with the wall of the tank just like refueling your car. This way if a spark accurs inside the tank nothing happens. The fuel air mixture in the tank will prevent combustion unless the tank is empty or nearly so.

 

As for drilling holes and inserting conducting elements, I am skeptical as to their effectiveness. This is because fuel would have to come into direct contact with such elements to discharge. Fuel not in contact is going to remain charged and flowing fuel will acquire charge.

 

Bluey.

 

 

[Riley]

So it raises the question - is the Mr Minute, so-called 'static-proof funnel' actually a conductor or generator of static electricity? If so, must I assume that it too, has to be included in the grounding cable sequence viz, A/C to ground; Mr Minute to A/C; jerry can to Mr Minute; etc? Could it be that I've been luckily living a lie for the past decade despite my begrudging faithfull use of Mr Minute & Co? cheers Riley

 

 

[facthunter]

We really don't know do we? Nev.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

So it raises the question - is the Mr Minute, so-called 'static-proof funnel' actually a conductor or generator of static electricity? If so, must I assume that it too, has to be included in the grounding cable sequence viz, A/C to ground; Mr Minute to A/C; jerry can to Mr Minute; etc? Could it be that I've been luckily living a lie for the past decade despite my begrudging faithfull use of Mr Minute & Co? cheers Riley

Well if you've been lucky for the last decade then I 've been damn lucky for the last 30 years !...

 

 

[planet47]

Actually come to think of it we've all probably been lucky Maj

 

 

[Mike Brady]

How about ensuring that the aircraft is correctly earthed before refuelling; or am I missing something here? Are the plastic tanks the issue?

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

How about ensuring that the aircraft is correctly earthed before refuelling; or am I missing something here? Are the plastic tanks the issue?

I think it's more important to ground the aircraft to the refuelling equipment; however grounding that to Earth would seem cheap insurance. Bit of a challenge to do that for a mobile refuelling rig, though; you plan to drive a metre-long copper-plated steel rod into the ground to serve as an earthing electrode? Don't let the groundsman spot you doing this . . .

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

At a lot of airports with hardstand areas there are usually earthing points at most parking areas. When the fuel truck comes out to fill the big boys they use these to earth the truck. Small domes about 3inches round

 

 

[Ron5335]

So it raises the question - is the Mr Minute, so-called 'static-proof funnel' actually a conductor or generator of static electricity?

 

From my school days, All you need to generate Static Electricity is to rub 2 non conductive surfaces together, so fuel (A non conductor) flowing over & through a plastic container (Another non conductor) gives you the basics to generate Static Electricity.

 

So if the the Mr Minute funnel is claiming to be Static Proof, then it would have to be Conductive, but then it would only pass on the charge(OR problem) to somewhere else.

 

When this was discussed at the local field the other day and someone asked "How come we have not had a problem at this field", it was best answered by some one saying "God loves us" !!!!!

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

I've used plastic funnels to refuel various pieces of machinery around the place, and I've been lucky, too. I suspect there are two mitigating circumstances - firstly, the flow rate is small (and so is the total quantity of fuel). Secondly, there's a rather over-rich fuel vapour/air ratio in the area where sparking is most likely. But on the other hand, I've seen several hideously-burned acquaintances over the years - so it does occasionally happen. I suspect you will find that the Australian Standard for plastic fuel containers may specify a minimum conductivity; and maybe an intelligent maker of fuel funnels would use the same material - but that's a guess.

 

I think the aviation requirements for refuelling aircraft are the result of WW 2 experience; putting a couple of thousand gallons into a Lancaster or whatever in a hurry, is far more likely to build up a dangerous static charge, than pouring 40 litres into an ultralight. However, stainless steel hardware is much easier to get, nowadays, and it's cheap insurance.

 

 

[dlegg]

So in hindsight would it be wise to use a stainless funnel to refuel an aluminium aircraft with a plastic gerry?

 

 

[SDQDI]

I wish they would make up their minds, first a plastic container now a bowser??

 

Whoops wrong thread....... But relating to the same story........ Ok enough from me I will crawl quietly back into my hole :-)

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Some older pilots may remember the static straps that we put on cars, they dragged on the ground preventing static build up. They claimed they helped prevent car sickness.

 

Made from high carbon content rubber. Maybe good for those static charged trikes. Also consider what you wear. Avoid nylon flight suits, stick to natural fibers for clothing and seat covers.

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

See australian standard as/nzs 2906 - fuel containers - portable - plastics and metal - it does not appear to address electrical conductivity.