Recreational Flying vs Facebook

[Admin]

Analysis done by various researchers indicate that the Facebook bubble is showing signs of bursting. Don't get me wrong Facebook is here to stay however the dip that online communities forums (or bulletin boards) experienced when facebook became the juggernaut, are starting to make a come back, and with a vengeance by well established, well managed and comprehensive web sites. Analysts believe with Facebook data mining of your personal info, it's lack of security and the many other personal dangers of using Facebook is what will always cause concern for any user of such a medium.

 

Recreational Flying already offers a lot more than Facebook and started well before Facebook was even conceived but this site can not stop here. If it is to prepare itself, and provide for, the next wave of online community upsurge, I need to know your thoughts on where to from here.

 

How can recreational Flying be better at what it Does? How can we make make Recreational Flying far superior than the likes of Facebook and other Social Media entities? What do you think Recreational Flying does better than Facebook and what does Facebook do better than Recreational Flying?

 

Your help on this is greatly appreciated...Please tell all, be upfront, it will help this site provide you with an even greater experience

 

 

[Kununurra]

They are chalk and cheese FB for many is about making contact without actually making contact.

 

It is easy to catch up what your family and friends are doing without too much thought.

 

As admin you would have the stats of how many visit the site and how many posts there are.

 

Keep doing what you are doing don't worry what someone else is doing and think that you need to change.

 

 

[Admin]

Recreational Flying has a far greater search capability helping to make Recreational Flying a "Resource".

 

Groups are coming to Recreational Flying so you can have your own Facebook style Group for your Flying Club, School or outside interest but still remain within the Recreational Flying collective

 

Recreational Flying has a far superior Image and Video library section plus there is a Resources section.

 

But I can't think of anything that Facebook has that is done better or has what Recreational Flying doesn't have

 

 

[SDQDI]

I agree with Kununurra, personally I couldn't care less about Facebook and have been glad that I never started in it. I've never been a big social media person, I used MSN messenger when it first was around but was more interested in catching up face to face than texting friends. Recflying originally (before I owned a plane) for me was a place to read others stories and experiences and from that to learn and also feed the aviation bug. Now that I own my own plane I still enjoy reading and learning about aviation related things and enjoy sharing pics and stories of my own with a hope of encouraging others to keep up all things aviation:thumb up:

 

It is great that you are always improving this site Ian and I am sure there are some that use a lot of the extra features but personally I just lurk, read, sometimes post and have used private conversation only a couple of times. I already find it perfect for what I do and any extras would probably be wasted on me but maybe I am a minority:blush:

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

As an example of how pathetic Facebook users can be, I missed a family event because I never knew about it. When I asked why I wasn't contacted the reply was 'If you don't want to be on Facebook, your loss". Needless to say, I would rather miss events than associate with morbidly obese fools that think they have many friends because they are on Facebook. How many of their Facebook friends would lend them a dollar in times of need?

 

 

[DonRamsay]

No question this is a superior resource than anything that exists or is likely to exist on FB. RecFlying is serious and FB is not. The point of FB is a low intensity chat with friends. Often here the debates are far more serious and in much greater depth.

 

The only thing FB has over RecFlying is that virtually all young people are on FB. So, then it becomes a question of how do we get younger people interested in flying as something they can do as opposed something that is done for them?

 

So, if you want to get people to s fly-in FB could be useful because of its immediacy and reach. RecFlying also can and does do it but it can be a bit like preaching to the converted. But, e.g., if you want to understand the advantages and disadvantages of in-flight variable pitch props that can only be done in a forum like this.

 

In my view, no comparison. FB posts are rarely more than a sentence or two and on here can be several well argued paragraphs.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I also find the discussion on Facebook lasts only a matter of days before it's lost "in the feed", here it lasts for a lot longer and provides search function for old topics

 

 

[rgmwa]

Facebook? Weird name. What is it?

 

rgmwa

 

 

[DonRamsay]

"If it is to prepare itself, and provide for, the next wave of online community upsurge, I need to know your thoughts on where to from here."

 

Essentially, I think more of the same but find ways to attract new members.

 

I came here first from a Google search, can't remember what it was. Found a few different fora but this was far superior to any others in form and content with a great bunch of friendly contributors. I know it was an important part of getting through the lows of ab initio flying training and continues to add to my bank of experience without actual hours in the air.

 

I've had the enormous benefit of the experience of quite a few wise heads with Facthunter a shining light!

 

 

[DGL Fox]

So, then it becomes a question of how do we get younger people interested in flying as something they can do as opposed something that is done for them?

Don, In my opinion there are 3 ways.... 1) Make them feel safe to fly small RAA aircraft. 2) Make it affordable for them. 3) Make it exciting and fun.

Number 3 is almost as important for them as item number 1, and if we want young people to be interested in flying RAA well that's where they are...Facebook...Twitter and the like that's where we advertise what we do !!!!!!

 

That is what I think the "Y" gen are looking for but then what do I know I am old fart...

 

David

 

 

[kgwilson]

I have a facebook account as a lot of friends and family have one but in fact I rarely use it. The problem now is that for some it has become a medium for abuse and ridicule of anything they don't like. For the vulnerable that can cause quite serious psychological harm and has been cited as being linked to youth suicide in a number of cases.

 

After the current committee of our Aero Club turned things around which included the expulsion of some trouble makers I set up a facebook page for the club. We got a torrent of abuse from a couple of people & even after banning them there were some things I was unable to delete & there was no assistance from the Facebook organisation. I deleted the page & won't go back.

 

Long term projections are that facebook is a fad like a lot of other uses of technology & will decline quite markedly in the next 5 years.

 

We now have a web site which is relevant, uncluttered, easy to navigate & at this stage no comments can be made. I will be setting up logins for members soon & it is great for letting everyone know what is on & also what they missed.

 

Rec Flying is great & where issues arise things are quickly moderated. I don't have twitter, instagram etc accounts. There are too many to count now & all they do is end up cluttering your email with rubbish about everything.

 

 

[Admin]

If you want to market recreational aviation to the younger market then here are a couple of links to high profile media entries:

 

Time: More Than 11 Million Young People Have Fled Facebook Since 2011

 

Forbes: Where Are Teens Hanging Out in 2014? Hint: It's Not Facebook

 

The Telegraph: Young users see Facebook as 'dead and buried'

 

The general consensus is that Facebook is rapidly going back to its original intention...for close friends and family to stay in touch with each other with short little statements however with the difference being for the older generation. Even my own daughter has said that she doesn't use Facebook much any more but would rather use other instant mediums to stay in touch with just the close people she knows however wants me to start a forum for her because after seeing this site she says you can have a lot more BUT, she says emphatically, it MUST have some kind of 1 on 1 instant chat

 

 

[fly_tornado]

create a list and stick all your friends and family into it.

 

keep your news feed for aviation news and events

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Farce book is used by journalists to harvest photos and quotes from people who probably had no idea their dribblings would be reproduced in national print and on-line media. Similar with twits, I am sure famous people have media advisers who post as soon as something happens knowing the media will pick it up and publish. RecFly allows a certain anonymity, which I think is good, because the person is less likely to be attacked than the persona and concepts under discussion. Moderation makes a big difference. I have younger relatives who have been miserable because of an onslaught of abuse from 'friends' on FB. RecFly allows a good robust discussion, however I note the younger rellies don't seem to be able to sustain a discussion over 140 characters or more than a day.

 

 

 

I found RecFly after a google search; tried others, but there was either no traffic, biased, abusive or too narrow.

 

 

 

Not sure what the future is, but it seems tied up with smart phones and tablets, short and instant. I hesitate to say inane, but that seems mostly what people do on social media. I don't have time for it (or internet speed ).

 

 

 

Sue

 

 

[DGL Fox]

If you want to market recreational aviation to the younger market then here are a couple of links to high profile media entries:Time: More Than 11 Million Young People Have Fled Facebook Since 2011

Forbes: Where Are Teens Hanging Out in 2014? Hint: It's Not Facebook

 

The Telegraph: Young users see Facebook as 'dead and buried'

 

The general consensus is that Facebook is rapidly going back to its original intention...for close friends and family to stay in touch with each other with short little statements however with the difference being for the older generation. Even my own daughter has said that she doesn't use Facebook much any more but would rather use other instant mediums to stay in touch with just the close people she knows however wants me to start a forum for her because after seeing this site she says you can have a lot more BUT, she says emphatically, it MUST have some kind of 1 on 1 instant chat

Well ok let's not get to bogged down on whether Facebook or Twitter is better or not, I think we all agree that we need new members young and older, lets face it, most young people don't have a lot of disposable income to throw at flying, it is good to target the young ones but we must not forget the older gen either. Ian tell me if I am wrong but your chat feature has not worked has it? I think because the older members couldn't be bothered with chatting and there is probably not enough younger members here to use it either, so, if what you are saying is correct the young ones want chat, what you need to do is have a very bright and exciting chat site with all the things we do as an organization running down the sides and based on flying..maybe videos, photo's, contact numbers etc.

 

I not expert in marketing but if we need new young members we need to go where they hang out and just remember that all the sites you put up are mainly US site with US teenagers, I think out teens and early 20's gen are a but different to their US and UK counterpart, seems like that to me anyway.

 

David

 

 

[fly_tornado]

If you are on Facebook, follow Kermit Weeks from Fantasy of Flight, he inherited a commission from the bass strait oil fields and spends most of his money on vintage aircraft.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

Do you think he would join RAA?

 

David

 

 

[Admin]

I think to answer the "Where to now" question, one needs to know how it all started and the site's history.

 

I was sitting in the club rooms at Shepparton talking to the old wise bold pilots before making the long 1.5hr trip home. Going home I realised what I had just learnt talking to others was incredible not only in improving my flying skills but could save my life one day. Imagine if we could get an Australia wide club rooms together 24/7, how many recreational aviator lives could we save, how much could our flying skills improve simply from the exchange of experiences...WOW, and off I went into a dream thinking of how it could be done. It became the "Ideal"

 

At that time RAAus had their email list for members to communicate with each other and that was, well to say the least, frightening. It was nasty, some of the things being said were just people big noting themselves or trying to get aircraft sales but RAAus can not stop a financial member, an actual owner of the email list from using it. After a wile due to legal implications with RAAus owning it, it was eventually shut down. However I thought the secret to doing something myself was that it had to be independent, unbiased and well moderated and keeping that "ideal" I had whilst driving home at the forefront of everything that is done.

 

When I got home I thought the best medium for this Australia wide club room would be the internet and a web site as most people would have access to it rather than any other kind of interactive medium. I developed my own database system with a few connected web pages thinking that if it got 100 users then it should suffice and 100 recreational aviators I believed would be better off. The site grew and grew to a point that my own development was breaking so I purchased 3rd part forum software. There were flaws in it in that I wasn't going to be able to uphold my "ideal". Six months later I purchased a different software package but after a year that also wasn't handling the humungous growth of the site. I was spending every waking hour trying to keep up and the workload was too much so I purchased a 3rd software package that had a much higher ceiling in terms of registered users, performance and the capability to offer even more whilst maintaining my "ideal". Again, that software had it's end date approached simply because the technologies being used were so outdated so another software package was purchased and finally, we have what we have today, yet another software package, it's stable, performance is good and it is not showing any signs of having a life expectancy coming up in the near future.

 

So here we are today. After 11 years, weathering an enormous amount of storms on a very frequent basis over those 11 years, the site is still going and still upholding its "ideal" of having an Australia wide club room where recreational aviators can help each other, learn from each other's experiences, generate lasting friendships with having a common interest and I am so convinced that this site has saved many lives, helped many recreational aviators in improving their flying skills and knowledge and helped to ostracise the cowboys by peer pressure. However over those 11 years putting the site and the "ideal" first and above all, there are some out there that think I am a real "sh!t", these people can't see the "ideal" because all they can see is themselves and what they can get. Advertising was a big no-no for many years simply because I had poured my heart and soul into the site, poured a huge amount of money into it, caused issues in my home life and have damaged my name in the eyes of a few but blow and be hold there was no way I was going to let people come here after all this and simply make money from it, line their own pockets from all I had gone through, so no personal gain was allowed and don't forget I was pouring money out for software, for hosting costs, my 70hr weeks of work etc. However, whilst I always said there would be no advertising on the site I had to buckle because the costs were becoming prohibitive to me in keeping the "ideal" alive so we now have a few advertisers who help with the costs PLUS and a BIG PLUS, we have Clear Prop and are very very thankful to those that support it

 

Whilst everything looks good on paper, it's not really. 11 Years is a very long time to continue with the same concept without revisiting it starting with a blank sheet of paper. You may end up with the same but still the process needs to happen. Something that I learnt in doing my MBA is that all corporates MUST reevaluate themselves at least once every 10 years. 11 Years is also a long time to remain the same as people change, their desires, their needs, technology, day by day processes that people do, cultures change and everything can be different from when you first started to 11 years later. Look how mobile devices have changed us in everything we do and that is just in the last 5 years, what is going to happen over the next 10 or say 11 years and is this site ready for it, is it shaping itself for it?

 

So where to now, well here was 1 idea that I shelved. A few years back I woke up in the middle of the night with the remnants of a dream still in my head. It was about this site. It was so incredible that I had to get up and write it all down whilst it was still in my head and over the last few years has been the driver of things that have happened here.

 

Imagine, in your head, a 24/7 world wide air show but online. The home page looked like the Oshkosh gates, there was an area where all the aircraft manufacturers were with reps from all around the world coming online throughout the whole 24hrs. You could discuss their aircraft with them, go for a virtual reality type of video test fly, speak to them if you are a current owner and need advice and much more. There were the forums where you discuss things as we do now but with people from all around the world. There would be topic presentation forums held every hour by people and organisations from all around the world like air shows have. There was a bizarre of stalls where you could buy anything you need from world wide suppliers who were online all the time simply by having their representatives in different time zones logging in, presentations of new aviation products by video and interactive chats about them, and you could even put your own aircraft, or anything else for that matter, up for sale. There would be a pseudo flying display made up of videos that change every day and a meeting place for your own club to get together and chat and view things, discuss etc, together as a group. And from it all, being it would be a full time job to manage it, I may actually make a small wage from it.

 

I even created a menu system for it that was simply a click on an area and go to image:

 

 

THAT is what I mean by "Where to now" however whilst I tried to slowly get there, available technology didn't support the concept and wasn't entirely in line with the "ideal" for why I started this site. You simply wouldn't get the "feel" of this new concept on a mobile phone. Anyway, now you know why I was trying to take the site International and why I was doing many other things to the site but I couldn't say anything because it was a strategic direction. Heck, I may still play around with it on a clean sheet of paper site but it would take a lot of time, money and effort to pull it off.

 

So all in all, Where To Now, what is going to sustain the site for another 11 years with the way the world has changed, how it is changing and what changes seem to be coming stronger and stronger so this site can adapt and be EVEN BETTER whilst maintaining to the strongest degree "The Ideal"

 

 

[Mark11]

If you want to market recreational aviation to the younger market then here are a couple of links to high profile media entries:Time: More Than 11 Million Young People Have Fled Facebook Since 2011

Forbes: Where Are Teens Hanging Out in 2014? Hint: It's Not Facebook

 

The Telegraph: Young users see Facebook as 'dead and buried'

 

The general consensus is that Facebook is rapidly going back to its original intention...for close friends and family to stay in touch with each other with short little statements however with the difference being for the older generation. Even my own daughter has said that she doesn't use Facebook much any more but would rather use other instant mediums to stay in touch with just the close people she knows however wants me to start a forum for her because after seeing this site she says you can have a lot more BUT, she says emphatically, it MUST have some kind of 1 on 1 instant chat

They are all on snapchat and intagram

 

None of them use FB to message or share pics/videos

 

 

[rhysmcc]

One thing i've noticed (and heard from others) was the aircraft sales area should be avoided due to the negative and troll like comments. Maybe one way to go with it is remove it from a "forum" and go with a market style classifieds with comments so people can ask questions etc but the original poster has easy access to remove said comments, something like a cross between the forum and what Facebook. If done well it may be an avenue for paying for the forum (i.e. $5 to place the ad until it's sold).

 

The site as a whole is a great resource, not just the forum but the aircraft section, the events etc. Minor improvements would be welcome but no massive changes as i think it works well. Get RA-AUS on board to have member only discussions with board members and ceo (like the Q&A session but online). Could be done either as a forum or online chat rooms.

 

 

[flyerme]

IMO- the difference between hear and facey, is there's no where to hide on face book!

 

You get a name, photo's, in most cases town they live in etc......

 

Hard to be a troll with all of the above.

 

In saying that , your site is awesome and far above facebook.

 

If your site worked like face book, poor old $& wouldn't get any friend request accepted

 

And may get lonely, and then there would be less entertainment. Oops I mean drama.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Facebook just like this forum can be a great resource if used the right way. The problems are rarely with the delivery vehicle but more often than not with the deliverer and that is certainly true of facebook and forums..

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[Admin]

Hard to be a troll with all of the above.

It is much much easier to create a false identity on Facebook...you can pretend to be anyone and troll away and in fact be many different identities. At least the security systems here flag multiple identities which can then be watched plus many other security tools that help protect the integrity of the site. For example we have one user pretending to be a female and we know who they are but as long as the posts are OK we simply don't care but we do monitor every single thing some selected users do which can't be done on facebook.

I think it is pretty safe to say by way of your comments that facebook doesn't have or do anything better, and in fact quite the opposite, we do do things better here so it is no point me looking at any facebook style changes to this site to move forward. So, where to from here, where are we heading in the next 10 Years? Or better still where should this site be heading for the next 10 Years.?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Ian in a nutshell you need to jump on the wankers who post nothing but negative posts...continually. Your can easily put them on the ignore list but in the meantime they have done nobody any good and have pissed the real posters off. These people do nothing for the forum .

 

I know we have lost many good contributing posters over the year, and in most cases they say they can't handle the negative members.......your forum has gone down and will continue to go down unless you take care of this area.......Maj....

 

 

[Admin]

Two things here Maj, 1 is where do you draw the line between freedom of speech and censorship...a hard thing to call and my name is already mud with some people due to this so it is a huge damned if you do and damned if you don't. Secondly, life is not always happy fields lined with daisies, and some things are just down right negative and that is how things get changed for the better and one person's opinion is perhaps not the same as yours or mine but then, who has the right to say who is right or who is wrong? Acceptance of that we may all have different opinions is what fades the word of negativity into oblivion...non acceptance of that is negative in itself, some what hypercritical.

 

However, you are right, the general statement of negativity on the site I think is made because of a healthy average balance between good and evil is not there and if it's not watched and managed then you are left with a pack of evil and the only winner in the end WILL be Admin, as Admin will always win and be the last man standing, granted a lonely place but something to then build from again and go full circle. I believe in Karma and as seen in the past, irritating negative users with heavier moderation etc, just fills conversations out there how much of a sh!t I am and how bad the site is. So what is the answer, grin and bear heavier moderation or promote strength in peer pressure?

 

We did have a "negative" Like (sounds a bit contradictory) but that privilege was abused by some users adversely impacting decent users Likes count. We do have a great "Report Post" system which only gets used when things are really bad but then that calls on the moderators to be judgmental with someone always being the loser. We are smack dead in the middle of a full blown Alpha Male industry where some people think they need to bang their chest and be judged by how loud they are, safely behind the hidden confines of keyboard courage.

 

The answer, I just don't know. As I keep saying running this site is damned if you do and damned if you don't but perhaps accept the nastiness out there against you and go with stronger moderation to get the site balanced again. Cultures can be changed either 2 ways, over a long period of time of constant pressure or in one almighty bang. I will speak to the Chief Moderator and, subject to other comments, propose that we have a fresh look at what we can do...thanks for the comment