RAA Members Market

[Geoff13]

I have been looking at aircraft since I got the bug 4 months ago. I am a genuine person with a fairly restrictive criteria due to several things but all of those to me are important. The main one is due to my weight and the combined weight of me and likely passengers, (Is that discreet enough?). I have been absolutely disgusted by some of the responses to queries about adds.

 

Mostly I email my queries if an email is provided, this is due to my work and time constraints. As a truckie I often work nights or long hours so tend to question things when the schedule permits. By using email it allows me to consider responses to my questions. Mostly my emails are ignored. Often when they do reply, they simply answer the questions that they want to answer and tend to ignore the others.

 

Every now and again someone will ring me. As I said I am a genuine buyer and do nothing to hide my identity.

 

Well today I got the ultimate bad response. I emailed someone with several genuine questions.

 

Let me say here that when I ring someone I always identify myself first and foremost.

 

I received a phone call from an unlisted number. This person sounded quite abrupt and asked for me by name. I asked who he was and again he asked for me by name. Again I asked who he was and he refused to answer and asked for me by name. At that I told him that as he rang me common courtesy would dictate that he identify himself.

 

With that out came the pompous Airs and Graces and I was abruptly informed that he wasn't the tax man or the police (of which I was already certain as they would have Identified themselves) he then proceeded to tell me he was a retired Judge and if I wanted to know more about his plane I should go and bloody look at it. Well with that attitude old mate if you are on here you can stick your bloody plane where the sun don't shine.

 

I think I will give up on second hand and go new. At least with salesman you can expect to be screwed over.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[rankamateur]

There are so many in the members market at the moment, a big change in the last eighteen months, don't let one old prick put you off, he probrably only advertised his plane because his wife nagged him about the accidents lately. I have spent the last eighteen months building my plane and I certainly could have bought one with low hours and fully equiped for the price of the materials to build one. If I didn't like building, I would have been in that buyers market, and be out of here flying twelve months ago. Pass that one by and keep looking, you the buyer are in the box seat at the moment!

 

 

[rhysmcc]

They could be getting alot of "tyre kicking" emails, maybe it's best to call sellers direct when you can as it may show more genuine interest? Best of luck with search

 

 

[rankamateur]

Geoff What is wrong with this one? Plane for the price of an engine! http://www.raa.asn.au/market/ad.php?id=4262

 

 

[Ultralights]

thats actually very tempting

 

 

[rankamateur]

It is a plane for the price of a 912ULS not a 912 UL, I misread the ad the first time but the airframe is only eight years old so it is still marvelous value.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Geoff don't be put off by a pompous arse there are plenty of others out there. The issue you have is what I have ..I am a big fat bastard and the mrs is no lightweight either. The latest savannahs are very good most come out empty at 300kg or so and the MTOW on the later ones after the 600 kg upgrade gives you almost 300 kg load so that is the most about for sure. Mine came in a bit on the heavy side due to some mods and other stuff I added but I have 280kg so me the mrs and both main tanks full I can legally get off the ground I can't do that with any other ultralight. Mark Gray has his Savannah S for sale on the market it has the 600kg mod and is we'll built I watched him build his while I built mine. Not sure if it is in your price range though and its hangared at Ycab so you might be able to do a deal with hangarage in his hangar as well

 

Mark

 

 

[rankamateur]

Is Mark building again or getting out?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Spoke to him on Saturday at the RAA meeting at Ycab . I think he wants to go down the RPL route and wants a bigger aircraft. He hasn't been flying a lot lately and spending a fair bit of time over in NZ he has another house over there so I think converting assets into cash then look around for something new to get into.

 

 

[503]

I have been looking at aircraft since I got the bug 4 months ago. I am a genuine person with a fairly restrictive criteria due to several things but all of those to me are important. The main one is due to my weight and the combined weight of me and likely passengers, (Is that discreet enough?). I have been absolutely disgusted by some of the responses to queries about adds.Mostly I email my queries if an email is provided, this is due to my work and time constraints. As a truckie I often work nights or long hours so tend to question things when the schedule permits. By using email it allows me to consider responses to my questions. Mostly my emails are ignored. Often when they do reply, they simply answer the questions that they want to answer and tend to ignore the others.

 

Every now and again someone will ring me. As I said I am a genuine buyer and do nothing to hide my identity.

 

Well today I got the ultimate bad response. I emailed someone with several genuine questions.

 

Let me say here that when I ring someone I always identify myself first and foremost.

 

I received a phone call from an unlisted number. This person sounded quite abrupt and asked for me by name. I asked who he was and again he asked for me by name. Again I asked who he was and he refused to answer and asked for me by name. At that I told him that as he rang me common courtesy would dictate that he identify himself.

 

With that out came the pompous Airs and Graces and I was abruptly informed that he wasn't the tax man or the police (of which I was already certain as they would have Identified themselves) he then proceeded to tell me he was a retired Judge and if I wanted to know more about his plane I should go and bloody look at it. Well with that attitude old mate if you are on here you can stick your bloody plane where the sun don't shine.

 

I think I will give up on second hand and go new. At least with salesman you can expect to be screwed over.

 

Cheers Geoff13

[503]

That's only one way to try selling

 

 

[nickduncs84]

It is a plane for the price of a 912ULS not a 912 UL, I misread the ad the first time but the airframe is only eight years old so it is still marvelous value.

Yep I saw that kitfox a couple of days ago. Last time there was a IV on the members market it only lasted a week, so this may well be gone already, especially at that price. If I didn't just buy a plane I'd be onto this one in a flash.

 

 

[Geoff13]

I will be honest. I worry about 19 reg. In a past life I was a qualified electronic technician. In the more recent one a self employed truckie for 20 years. I have rebuilt motorbikes and cars to varying standards, so if I wanted to build a plane I probably could. I am actually over the tinkering and building stage in my life. There are many 19 reg planes that I like and would probably fit my requirements, many of those with few or nearly 0 hours on them. However I worry about why someone would build a plane and then not fly it. If the builder won't, then I sure as hell won't. I guess that I am probably one of the newer breed that seem to get frowned on a bit in RAA. I don't want to build a plane I want a professionally finished product that I can see today and fly tomorrow. And before I upset anyone else as I appear to do on here from time to time I am aware that there are some truly excellent examples of home builts out there but to date none that I am willing to test with the life of one of my loved ones.

 

I would like a 24 reg plane for several reasons.

 

1. peace of mind,

 

2. the ability to put it online if I am not using it or stop using it,

 

3. supoort and maintenance.

 

It just surprises me the poor response of potential sellers. I joined RAA in Jun and have followed the members market religiously since. A very small percentage of the aircraft listed back then have been sold. Many of those that have, have sold for less than 70% of the price they were listed for and 2 that I know of that went for less than 50%. One would think that with a glut of aircraft on the market people would be bending over backwards to meet sellers on their terms which in a modern world believe it or not is via email. 98% of my business originates and is completed by email, and I am just a dumb truckie so I would have thought that in a high tech industry like aviation people would embrace it. If you don't want to be contacted via email well don't list it on the add.

 

They could be getting alot of "tyre kicking" emails, maybe it's best to call sellers direct when you can as it may show more genuine interest? Best of luck with search

No don't buy that. One of the emails that I sent out, I was the only one to have viewed the add at the time so it was hardly likely that he had had many tyre kickers. Still no response a week later. As for ringing them. I have done on several occasion and to date less than 30% of my calls have been answered. I will admit that most missed calls are returned when my phone is on silent. As I am normally on the road by 1am I tend to go to bed early.

 

I have fallen in love with one aircraft that fits the criteria (subject to due diligence of course) but to date have not been able to find a hangar/hanger/shed (private joke) that will take that particular aircraft. I am looking at converting a shipping container with slots for the wings and covers for them attached to the side. Quite simple to do but I still need somewhere to put it.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[Ultralights]

However I worry about why someone would build a plane and then not fly it. If the builder won't, then I sure as hell won't.Cheers Geoff13

i wouldnt use that an an excuse not to look at a 19 rego aircraft, i bought a 19 rego aircraft, built by someone on here, who built 4 previously.. but yes, he did fly some hour in it himself before i bought it,

 

i also know of a tradesperson in the aircraft industry, who has built quite a few aircraft, to a phenomenal standard, far better than any factory, he hasnt not flown any of them, his passsion is in the building to the best standard possible.. actually, i have not seen any better workmanship in any aircraft ever! he has no real interest in flying them.

 

 

[ave8rr]

I

 

Geoff What is wrong with this one? Plane for the price of an engine! http://www.raa.asn.au/market/ad.php?id=4262

I am advised by John that aircraft sold in 24 hours. A good buy.

Mike

 

 

[rankamateur]

I tried to buy a 24 rego version of what I am building immediately before I ordered my kit, short story, after driving ten hours to Bundaberg to inspect it in it's grounded state at that time , it never really was for sale. That plane would now be registered E24 and I am quite glad I don't own it, 19 rego will do me a lot better thanks.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Geoff you shouldn't be wary of 19 built aircraft. The aircraft that Ultralights has was built by my instructor infact that aircraft was the first flight in a ultralight for me and got me hooked on the savannahs. That particular aircraft has been going through a 1000 hour maint so I would like to see what sort of condition and money spent on a 24 rego would be after 1000 hours. I previously flew gliders and a C172. You can soon tell any 19 built aircraft if they have been thrown together or put together with love and care. It takes only a 10 min look and you will see the differences...anyway you get a inspection from a L2 or l4 to confirm anything anyway. 24 rego aircraft come with a lot more expense. You can not do any maint yourself you can not do any mods at all even changing the avionics out for something else must be signed off by the factory even changing to a different set of wheels is a no no.....so do your research first. Also hiring them out to a school also wears your aircraft out extremely quickly with lots of maintenance to be done on them so consider your options carefully....think about a syndicate The white fox bat that used to be in my hangar and has now shifted next door is a syndicate and I think they were looking for a new member recently. That brings your costs down also hangarage is taken care of

 

Mark

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Hope it's still for sale when I relocate to brisbane :)

 

 

[eightyknots]

I have been looking at aircraft since I got the bug 4 months ago. I am a genuine person with a fairly restrictive criteria due to several things but all of those to me are important. The main one is due to my weight and the combined weight of me and likely passengers, (Is that discreet enough?). I have been absolutely disgusted by some of the responses to queries about adds.Mostly I email my queries if an email is provided, this is due to my work and time constraints. As a truckie I often work nights or long hours so tend to question things when the schedule permits. By using email it allows me to consider responses to my questions. Mostly my emails are ignored. Often when they do reply, they simply answer the questions that they want to answer and tend to ignore the others.

 

Every now and again someone will ring me. As I said I am a genuine buyer and do nothing to hide my identity.

 

Well today I got the ultimate bad response. I emailed someone with several genuine questions.

 

Let me say here that when I ring someone I always identify myself first and foremost.

 

I received a phone call from an unlisted number. This person sounded quite abrupt and asked for me by name. I asked who he was and again he asked for me by name. Again I asked who he was and he refused to answer and asked for me by name. At that I told him that as he rang me common courtesy would dictate that he identify himself.

 

With that out came the pompous Airs and Graces and I was abruptly informed that he wasn't the tax man or the police (of which I was already certain as they would have Identified themselves) he then proceeded to tell me he was a retired Judge and if I wanted to know more about his plane I should go and bloody look at it. Well with that attitude old mate if you are on here you can stick your bloody plane where the sun don't shine.

 

I think I will give up on second hand and go new. At least with salesman you can expect to be screwed over.

 

Cheers Geoff13

Don't judge one bad experience with this person as a reflection on all aviators. Just about every recreational aviator I have met are really decent people. Perhaps the people who are getting out of aviation are the less than decent ones?

 

Keep looking: the right aircraft will come your way eventually.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Mark

 

Yes I am already in a syndicate. And yes I considered that syndicate but I would not be acceptable to them with my short hours. But at the end of the day I want my own, so that if I want to fly to a flyin breaky or something similar I can without lining up to do it. As for maintenance, having owned over 25 trucks and 50 trailers and at one stage more than I could count at one time, I do not want to be doing it. I want to fly and ride my bikes and I worked 18 hour days for 20 years so that I can do that. Yep I would be happy to wash and polish my plane as much as I can but I have had enough grease under my fingernails to last a lifetime. So if the cost of owning a plane means paying an L2/L4 then so be it. To be honest it would take me to long to learn to maintain my own plane to a standard that I would be comfortable with anyway. I understand what you are saying and admire your passion, I however do not share the same passion.

 

I did say that I am aware that there are good passionate people out there who build excellent aircraft and a 19 reg is not out of the question, but at the end of the day a machine is a just a machine and I would like the ability to put it online down the track if possible. Lets just say I bought one this week and in 12 months I feel that I have outgrown it or my requirements change from tootling around SE Qld to flying to Mildura once a month to visit my grandkids. If it can be put online then it frees me up to look elsewhere. Lets face it planes are not selling like they used to.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[Geoff13]

Don't judge one bad experience with this person as a reflection on all aviators. Just about every recreational aviator I have met are really decent people. Perhaps the people who are getting out of aviation are the less than decent ones?Keep looking: the right aircraft will come your way eventually.

I agree Eightyknots and to be honest I have met some wonderful people in the short time I have had to follow my dream. Just on Saturday I landed at an airfield and spent an hour chatting to two guys who have been around since SAAA days. Truly interesting gentleman who treated me as an equal albeit one who didn't know crap about flying. That was why I liked them. They didn't belittle me they just want to talk airplanes and flying and people. You can learn so much chatting to older folks.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[rankamateur]

Geoff, after having owned all those trucks and taken what ever drivers you could get instead of the ones you would have chosen to have driving your trucks, Why would you want to put your plane on line at a flight training facility for a bunch of learners to knock the rough edges off themselves on? Sort of hard for me to fathom!

 

 

[Geoff13]

Geoff, after having owned all those trucks and taken what ever drivers you could get instead of the ones you would have chosen to have driving your trucks, Why would you want to put your plane on line at a flight training facility for a bunch of learners to knock the rough edges off themselves on? Sort of hard for me to fathom!

Because rankamateur at the end of the day, A machine is just a machine and they should be able to help support themselves. And as I said I am not actually buying one to put online but we never know what our future holds or what my happen down the track.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[spacesailor]

I could,nt test fly my Hummelbird, as Iv,e not gone solo, plus the thought of an unskilled pilot testing an unflown aircraft is a quick way to add to the list of "stupiod sod, what was he thinking"

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

...... I have been absolutely disgusted by some of the responses to queries about adds.Mostly I email my queries if an email is provided, this is due to my work and time constraints...... Mostly my emails are ignored. Often when they do reply, they simply answer the questions that they want to answer and tend to ignore the others.

 

...... I am a genuine buyer and do nothing to hide my identity.

 

Well today I got the ultimate bad response. I emailed someone with several genuine questions.

 

........ when I ring someone I always identify myself first and foremost.

 

I received a phone call from an unlisted number. .... quite abrupt and asked for me by name. I asked who he was and again he asked for me by name. Again I asked who he was and he refused to answer and asked for me by name. At that I told him that as he rang me common courtesy would dictate that he identify himself.

 

With that out came the pompous Airs and Graces and I was abruptly informed that he wasn't the tax man or the police (of which I was already certain as they would have Identified themselves) he then proceeded to tell me he was a retired Judge and if I wanted to know more about his plane I should go and bloody look at it. Well with that attitude old mate if you are on here you can stick your bloody plane where the sun don't shine.....

I think you're getting your knickers in a twist about nothing, and perhaps missing out on a good deal as a result of that.

 

You may not be aware that there have been extensive scams perpetrated on people advertising expensive goods online and consequently all people who place advertisements have been warned to look out for the warning signs which, first and foremost, are - people responding to the advertisement by email rather than phone - and people who refuse to identify themselves fully or are evasive about personal details when you contact them ...

 

These scams have been discussed several times on this site previously, a quick search brings up this one about Yenn's advertised Corby Starlet and this about Russ's propellor for sale, plus quite a number of others. I'd say the 'retired Judge' was just trying to protect his interests, albeit with a rather unfortunate manner. But I do sympathise with you, I also won't answer people who call me and demand my identity and don't at least say who they are or what they're calling about.

 

It's not only the Members Market that's been targeted, to my certain knowledge it's rife anywhere people post ads and also mention their email address, like eBay, Amazon, Gumtree, Barnstormers etc. Usually the perp claims to be on an oilrig or minesite without phone access so they are using email - in your case it's quite innocent "due to my work and time constraints", but the advertiser has no way of knowing that.

 

On the RAAus Members Market noticeboard, at the top of the page and right hand side in red is the following notice -

 

Advertisers are also responsible for assessing both the integrity of potential buyers, and the risks that attend online transactions. Since phishing scammers have reportedly been contacting advertisers via this site, you are strongly encouraged to familiarise yourself with the ACCC's guidelines for recognising, and guarding against online scammers.