Yet another Jab down.....

[facthunter]

What about the snakes? and the fire if it starts. Nev

 

 

[Jaba-who]

What about the snakes? and the fire if it starts. Nev

Fires - Just don't hang around in the plane too long when you come too a stop.

 

Snakes - just watch where you're walking. I have walked and ridden horses through cane paddocks fairly frequently. Have only seen snakes infrequently. Make enough noise and they clear out of your way. Folklore tries to imply there's a snake hanging off every stalk of cane but there's not that many of them.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Sounds like a good idea if you have nothing else. I would be very hesitant in landing in any crop where I couldnt see what was hiding in the crop.

 

I would take a nice dirt road or road shoulder where i can see the surface over landing in ANY crop. If nothing else available, then I spose the Cain is as good as any.

 

The other problem, is your not going to be easily found by road vehicles etc inside a tall crop like cane. What was that movie where the alien space ship was hiding in the middle of a cane field??

 

 

[facthunter]

Not sure as to say "land in the cane" if other options are available. I suppose there are no powerlines there??? Any reasonable track used by cars is ok if no poles, fences tractors etc,to worry about. Every chance you can fly it out too. That's not important if real safety is an issue. Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The cane field that our friend has landed in is new cane only about 1 mtr high by the look of it. The fuselage and tail are still plainly visible and it appears he is next to a rail line.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Any word on the issue Maj?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Any word on the issue Maj?

No mate ...made some enquiries today but probabily won't get the real word until I run into the pilot next week I would expect.

 

 

[winsor68]

There was a trike had an engine failure at 300 feet and survivable (for the pilot) arrival on Sunday locally as well.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

There was a trike had an engine failure at 300 feet and survivable (for the pilot) arrival on Sunday locally as well.

Was that the one that had the fuel run out ?.....near Kutabul....

 

 

[winsor68]

It's nothing compared to the regular half dozen motorcycle incidents handled at the ED in a weekend...but given that their are so few aircraft operating out of this area...four survivable crashes in half as many years does give one reason to stop and think... 50% pilot failure...50% engine failure. All survivable.

 

Getting a bit sick of having to worry one of my mates (hope I can still call them all that even if we don't always see eye to eye on politics) is going to burst through the doors on a trauma trolley. Fly safe guys.

 

 

[winsor68]

Was that the one that had the fuel run out ?.....near Kutabul....

Yes...so make that 75% pilot failure (he didn't mention it was fuel starvation and it wasn't a polite time to ask)

 

 

[alf jessup]

Was that the one that had the fuel run out ?.....near Kutabul....

Even the good old glider needs fuel to initially get it in the air whether by winch launch or by tow

No fuel will do it every time 100% pilot error if you start running on air

 

 

[dutchroll]

We're not interested in Jab knockers, when they're going well, they're great, we just want the facts.

And facts I'm sure you will get in the fullness of time.

So when they're going well, they're great? When the DH Comet was going well, it was great too.

 

A successful and safe aeroplane is a combination of a good airframe matched to a good engine. It's no good having one without the other.

 

 

[Yenn]

Cane fields are usuallu very smooth at ground level, a lot were lazer levelled when they atrted out. Land with the rows and you should get a good ride. As for the 12mm spanner in the Honda. How would it get into the sump if the mechnic was setting the valve lash. Even on the old side bangers you would have to have been an expert to get a spanner into the sump.

 

 

[facthunter]

The timing chain area might allow a small spanner to fall down. Nev..

 

 

[planedriver]

And facts I'm sure you will get in the fullness of time.So when they're going well, they're great? When the DH Comet was going well, it was great too.

 

A successful and safe aeroplane is a combination of a good airframe matched to a good engine. It's no good having one without the other.

Ah! The Comet. Flew on them a few times with BEA and Danair model 4B's.

 

At least the industry learned a lot about the little known (at that time) effects of cabin pressurisation and de-pressurisation causing structural fatigue, especially the early model with square windows. I seem to recall they also had compressor problems on some of the earlier engines.

 

Sadly this knowledge was gained at a the cost of many poor souls lives, but they learned, and other manufacturers learned too, but at least the changes that needed to be made, were made which has contributed to the safer aircraft that many take for granted these days. The last Nimrod was retired only about 3 yrs ago.

 

The point I am trying to make is that at least the manufacturers learned, and made the changes required.

 

 

[01rmb]

I had vowed to not get involved in a Jabiru's are Bad vs Jabiru's are Good stoush but it is worth making the point that you must be vigilant during pre flight checks of any aircraft and make sure that at any hint of a problem it is investigated properly to avoid problems. It is an unwise person that would say that they do not want to have a safer aircraft, especially if he is actually the one flying in one!

 

Jabiru engines are not tolerant of problems - especially with exhaust valves and pistons. I have had two problems, one with an exhaust valve not sealing properly and the second a stuck piston ring. Vigilance and a good maintainer ensured that the problems were picked up during pre flight inspections and the regular services. My key lesson from this was that if the engine has even a hint of low compression on any cylinder when pulling the prop through or the engine is not running totally smooth then it needs to be fully checked before being flown.

 

I wish the engines were more tolerant of small problems since the fine tolerances means that any problem is cause for concern and further investigation. I believe that more needs to be done to understand the underlying root cause and fix the problem/s. I don't believe that the engine is overall a bad design but some parts do need to be better able to withstand wider variance in use and tolerance of things such as fuel (lead in avgas is evil) and cooling (too hot and things go bad). It sounds like CAMIT is doing some decent investigation and modifications in this area so hopefully Jabiru will learn from them any necessary lessons and join them to bring the improvements to 24 registered aircraft.

 

To make this easier I also wish the regulations would allow freer introduction of modification/new components, still with an appropriate level of testing and certification, but, without the excessive high cost and liabilities currently so that improvements can be made more easily for better safety.

 

 

[planedriver]

[quote="01rmb, post: 455715, member: 11097

 

To make this easier I also wish the regulations would allow freer introduction of modification/new components, still with an appropriate level of testing and certification, but, without the excessive high cost and liabilities currently so that improvements can be made more easily for better safety.

 

The wisest words i've heard today Ross.

 

Maybe the problems should be approached from that angle.

 

Though not sure how one would go about obtaining that bit of flexibility in the name of safety

 

 

[facthunter]

Being a certified anything leads to stagnation of the design.. Modifying is difficult. Certification is expensive. With low volume you have low profit potential and high unit costs. Nev

 

 

[dutchroll]

Well I think it's only a matter of time (and not a very long one either) before Jabiru have something forced upon them that they're not going to be very happy about.

 

You may be able to do it in areas where money can be thrown at it, but you can't get away with building "low tolerance" engines for the GA/RA market.

 

 

[jetjr]

What exactly can be forced on Jabiru?

 

POST EDITED AS IT DOES NOT ADD VALUE - MOD

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Perhaps a real effort to fix the problems?

 

 

[Admin]

Posts removed for attacking another site user...these posts do not add value.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

That would be handy to have actually

POST DOES NOT ADD VALUE - MOD

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Ah! The Comet. Flew on them a few times with BEA and Danair model 4B's.At least the industry learned a lot about the little known (at that time) effects of cabin pressurisation and de-pressurisation causing structural fatigue, especially the early model with square windows. I seem to recall they also had compressor problems on some of the earlier engines.

Sadly this knowledge was gained at a the cost of many poor souls lives, but they learned, and other manufacturers learned too, but at least the changes that needed to be made, were made which has contributed to the safer aircraft that many take for granted these days. The last Nimrod was retired only about 3 yrs ago.

 

The point I am trying to make is that at least the manufacturers learned, and made the changes required.

I watched a really interesting show on the Comet last night strangely enough,. . . . . . . and there were some other design quirks with that aircraft which don't get mentioned very often,. . . one of which was that the takeoff airspeed at recommended rotate was very critical, and a couple of them ran off the end of runways killing all on board when the handling pilot tried to rotate too early and part stalled the aircraft. this resulted in a high speed overrun and the aircraft leaving the runway still firmly on the ground and at high speed. The programme did not state as to whether this design quirk was solved before the Comets were finally withdrawn from use. I suppose I could go and read wikipedia and see if there was anything done about this but I probably won't ( well. . . .not tonight anyway, too much Barossa Valley product. . . . )

 

Phil